Noticed something kind of cool - I think?

I have been trying to sprout some ten year old seeds that I had stored in the refridgerator. I had a lot so I planted 10 seedlings into peat pellets and tried to sprout them that way. I got none that even sprouted, so after a month I just threw them away. So, I decided to try again a different way. I took 10 more seeds from the same batch and age and soaked them in distilled water with a little H2O2 for 24 hours and a small amount of veg nutes. None cracked but I proceeded to plant them in very moist (almost wet) promix soil with a little veg nutes and placed them a 400 watt HPS. I put them at a good distance as to not burn them, but just warm the soil slightly. I know the light was overkill by far, but it was all I had at the time at my disposal.

After 2 weeks nothing, so I undug a couple and gave them a look. They didn't even crack open! So I figured I would give them a little help and had nothing to loose. I cracked them with my teeth to see if the insides were still white and then squeezed them slightly between my thunm and forefinger (spelling?). I was suprised when the seedling from inside popped out totally intact seperating it totally from the seed shell. They were white and healthy inside and in perfect condition even though of my crude way of opening them. I took the little white curled baby that was freshly released from the inside of it's shell and planted it back into the Promix. The next day she was popping out of the soil! I did it to the rest and they all popped except one which was brown and mushy inside.

So this tells me that the seed case is not needed and only for storage. If the shell can be removed after a very long soak it seperates from the shell inside and can be popped out easily. It made it so my old seeds are now 80 percent viable using this method when previously none were. I found this quite interesting.

I am sure some already know of this but for me I had discovered the shell really is not needed. I thought I would mention it anyways just incase. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it with expensive seeds unless they have some practice with bag seed first. It is sometimes very teadious work getting the shell off without damaging the seedling inside. With some experimenting I am sure there are other ways of making it seperate easier, even though this time it was extremely easy. I don't know how it will work with others of a different strain, but will be trying. It is very important to soak for a long time and only use this method if they don't crack on there own. It has worked excellent for me! Just thought I would post my findings even though it is probably already well known, but I have never read about it anywhere previously and it was new to me.

Any input please let me know what you think or any suggestions or experience you have would be appreciated. Thanks!

TGT

ive had a seed which only put out a little bit of a tap root but that was it. i did crack it open like you it started growing but follwing that it died. so i kinda thought that if it isnt strong enough to crack the shell then it will end up weak anyway.
did yours develop into really healthy strong plants or are they still little?

siftedunity said:

ive had a seed which only put out a little bit of a tap root but that was it. i did crack it open like you it started growing but follwing that it died. so i kinda thought that if it isnt strong enough to crack the shell then it will end up weak anyway.
did yours develop into really healthy strong plants or are they still little?

Click to expand...

Yes, my plants turned out extremely healthy and vigorous. I think that sometimes no matter how healthy a seedling is, when it gets old the shell hardens and the plant excerts most of its energy just to break out, then has not enough strength to continue and peters out. This might be why adding a little nutrients helps. I don't know for sure if this is the case, but what I do know is I had hardly any chance with these seeds until I did it this way and even though they were in soil for so long they still turned out healthy and vigorous with the added help.

Thanks for the input!

TGT

ive got some old seeds which were never put in the fridge. they dont germinate fully so id like to find a way of getting them going.

Great info, TGT. Wish I had known that about 5 years ago. Thanks. -granger

bigherb has posted about cracking the seed coat for older seed germination.

i tried the cracking method with fiskar trimming scissors instead of my teeth and it worked pretty easily but none of the embryos fully germinated.

i'll try this cracking method again.

thanks.

This is the second, "I cracked 'em with my teeth!" report I've read.

yup heard it too. have ya tried cracking the seed first and then planting? i too tried planting some 10= year old seeds. wish i had tried your method.

TGT said:

I have been trying to sprout some ten year old seeds that I had stored in the refridgerator. I had a lot so I planted 10 seedlings into peat pellets and tried to sprout them that way. I got none that even sprouted, so after a month I just threw them away. So, I decided to try again a different way. I took 10 more seeds from the same batch and age and soaked them in distilled water with a little H2O2 for 24 hours and a small amount of veg nutes. None cracked but I proceeded to plant them in very moist (almost wet) promix soil with a little veg nutes and placed them a 400 watt HPS. I put them at a good distance as to not burn them, but just warm the soil slightly. I know the light was overkill by far, but it was all I had at the time at my disposal.

After 2 weeks nothing, so I undug a couple and gave them a look. They didn't even crack open! So I figured I would give them a little help and had nothing to loose. I cracked them with my teeth to see if the insides were still white and then squeezed them slightly between my thunm and forefinger (spelling?). I was suprised when the seedling from inside popped out totally intact seperating it totally from the seed shell. They were white and healthy inside and in perfect condition even though of my crude way of opening them. I took the little white curled baby that was freshly released from the inside of it's shell and planted it back into the Promix. The next day she was popping out of the soil! I did it to the rest and they all popped except one which was brown and mushy inside.

So this tells me that the seed case is not needed and only for storage. If the shell can be removed after a very long soak it seperates from the shell inside and can be popped out easily. It made it so my old seeds are now 80 percent viable using this method when previously none were. I found this quite interesting.

I am sure some already know of this but for me I had discovered the shell really is not needed. I thought I would mention it anyways just incase. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it with expensive seeds unless they have some practice with bag seed first. It is sometimes very teadious work getting the shell off without damaging the seedling inside. With some experimenting I am sure there are other ways of making it seperate easier, even though this time it was extremely easy. I don't know how it will work with others of a different strain, but will be trying. It is very important to soak for a long time and only use this method if they don't crack on there own. It has worked excellent for me! Just thought I would post my findings even though it is probably already well known, but I have never read about it anywhere previously and it was new to me.

Any input please let me know what you think or any suggestions or experience you have would be appreciated. Thanks!

TGT

Click to expand...

There's a very old method for speeding up germination of seeds, where the grower trims the foot of the seed carefully with a scalpel until he sees the white. Then plant and wait.
I've used four year old seeds in the past and they were fine. I always soak mine in hot (initially) water for 24 hrs and that usually does the trick.
Stay safe

This is interesting to me because I've read in more than one place that saliva is a good rooting agent. The Plant Doctor recommends using saliva on cuttings. I wonder if the tooth cracking method also works because the seed get a dose of saliva. Any speculation? -granger

4 year old seeds aint shit and should sprout without any issues if stored right. i got shit going now 9 years old popping. good to hear of this method as i got alot of even older seeds i cant get to germ .i have tried all the other methods, soak in this ,sandpaper that,heat , blah blah blah. thanks

i chime in regularly on these threads having worked as a seed germinator. recently i had some old seeds of one of my favourites and worked thru most of them with no luck.

last ones i tried they were like rockets.. whatever else you try.. if you've got precious seeds.. put them on to soak a day before the full moon

SeaMaiden said:

This is the second, "I cracked 'em with my teeth!" report I've read.

Click to expand...

It's the same as eating Sun Flower seeds, just a little smaller and don't chew or swallow lol. But I think the teeth cracking method is good because you have a lot of control with something so small compared to using your hands. For me I find the seed can be manipulated very easy this way as my hands feel as though I have all thumbs sometimes. Also, like others posted - who knows, saliva might be helpful for germination?

Saliva breaks down food to prepair it for your stomache acids so may be it softens the shells and/or kills bacteria? Just a thought.

Waveguide, a seed germinator? I could see that being an interesting job. When I planted the seeds I totally took off the shell. Have you used this method before?

I think the most important step is to soak in warm water for a long time and only crack the shell if it will not on its own. This soaking is nessasary to seperate the embrio from the shell, almost like de-shelling an egg after a good long boil and I don't know if by using the small amount of H2O2 in the water it helped or not. Looks like time for a controlled experiment. I think I have too many idea's for what I am capable of doing lol.

Thanks for the response everyone, I am going to be cracking some 15 year old seeds soon so I will take some pic's and log the progress. May be half I'll try regularily with a 24 hour soak with the other half being de-shelled after the soak.

Ps: My little sprouts that I succeeded in popping in the beginning of this thread are Hash Plant/Blueberry. Just thought I would mention that.

TGT

Yes, it occurred to me that since saliva is essentially a pre-digestive juice, that may play a role. I know what you mean about all thumbs. I usually sand the seeds a bit, and have learned to do it in a box or they scatter. I can see myself biting down too hard on the seed, though, and my front teeth don't match up well so well, creating another problem with the method.

I'm no good at sunflower seeds.

Where are we at in the lunar cycle..?

SM, we're waning right now. New moon on the 15th; full moon is at the end of the month.

TGT said:"I am going to be cracking some 15 year old seeds soon so I will take some pic's and log the progress."

TGT,
I'll be quite keen on seeing your results. Thanks.

Sea Maiden,
I like these bookmarks:
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_moonphases.pl?year=2012&ZZZ=END
http://www.gardeningbythemoon.com/phases.html -granger

SeaMaiden said:

Yes, it occurred to me that since saliva is essentially a pre-digestive juice, that may play a role. I know what you mean about all thumbs. I usually sand the seeds a bit, and have learned to do it in a box or they scatter. I can see myself biting down too hard on the seed, though, and my front teeth don't match up well so well, creating another problem with the method.

I'm no good at sunflower seeds.

Where are we at in the lunar cycle..?

Click to expand...

Do you really beleive the lunar cycle will have an effect on seed germination? Not saying I don't believe, especially coming from someone as experienced as yourself, but it just seems like hocus pokus to me. Like I said, thats just my though at the time having no experience of knowledge on the facts, so please enlighten me. I am very interested, thanks!

TGT

TGT,
I don't know if it works or not, but when convenient, especially with high priced seed, I follow it just in case. Something to do with tides, which ebb and flow not just in the seas, but in anything, including the living, that contains water.

Much of what farming is, is knowledge gained from observation and experience gathered over the thousands of years and passed from farmer to farmer. That is being continued on these forums. Good luck. -granger

TGT,
I don't know if it works or not, but when convenient, especially with high priced seed, I follow it just in case. Something to do with tides, which ebb and flow not just in the seas, but in anything, including the living, that contains water.

Much of what farming is, is knowledge gained from observation and experience gathered over the thousands of years and passed from farmer to farmer. That is being continued on these forums. Good luck. -granger

TGT said:

Do you really beleive the lunar cycle will have an effect on seed germination? Not saying I don't believe, especially coming from someone as experienced as yourself, but it just seems like hocus pokus to me. Like I said, thats just my though at the time having no experience of knowledge on the facts, so please enlighten me. I am very interested, thanks!

TGT

Click to expand...

I honestly have no idea and I'm always too distracted to remember to have my shit together in time for something like planting according to a lunar cycle. Harvesting is done much the same way--as I can.

However, that said, I can't simply discount it as so much mumbo jumbo. There very well may be perfectly sound, valid reasons and reasoning behind it that may not as yet be described or understood by science.

And I say that because of all I keep learning. I once said that the moon couldn't have had a thing to do with life forming on earth, but have since learned that it very well may have made the planet stable enough for life, it may have had cycles and weather patterns that were too unstable for at least higher life.

I used to think that the idea of teas for plants was just fucking ridiculous. Now I know better.