Broad Mites?

Grow Tech · Dec 29, 2011

Has anyone seen a small translucent mite that seems to feed predominantely on pitils vs leaves?

My experience with the larger red / 2-spotted mite is that they avoid higher THC areas of the plant...living mostly on the leaves.

I was wondering why the pistils on my indoor had turned brown 3 weeks into flower. I got out my 30x hand microscope and saw the developing bud sites were under attack but didnt find any on leaves I checked out.

Pyrethrum tonight!

Hammerhead · Dec 29, 2011

no but there is another call Hemp Russet Mites..

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227293&highlight=hemp+mites

Grow Tech · Dec 29, 2011

Hammerhead said:
no but there is another call Hemp Russet Mites..

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=227293&highlight=hemp+mites

Thanks for the input! I'm pretty sure i have something different. Mine arent visible to the naked eye. I will probably get some Azamax to use per the suggestions in the thread you supplied. I sprayed everything once with flormite before they went into the flower room but now that I'm 3 weeks in, I think I'll go the more organic route

Terpene said:
Hey GT - are you sure you're not seeing thrips?

Hey Terpene! I'm almost sure theyre mites. They look similar to these Broad Mites I found a picture of-

I am not seeing any leaf stippling and as i mentioned...I'm not seeing them on the leaves at all...just the new bud growth / pistils

Terpene · Dec 29, 2011

Crazy! Well, I've never seen anything like that but permethrin solves all of life's problems. If you want extreme organic, you might try rosemary oil in water, that seems to work well for the SNS17 crowd.

max_well · Dec 30, 2011

Hey bro,
I'm in SD too and recently saw these in my garden.. maybe we got them from the same clone source.. what cuts are you running?
They are Broad or Cyclamen mites, which are quite different than the 2 spotted spider. Azamax / neem based products not gonna help you much unfortunately, and I don't believe pyrethrin will give you much luck either.
They share some characteristics with hemp russet mites, which I've read of people having major problems with recently, particularly in Colorado. These are an big issue in the ornamental growing community-- I found lots of info about them in african violet growing forums..
They can be an issue in citrus trees, which might explain where they've spread from originally in Diego.
Good thread here:
http://www.t h cfarmer.com/forums/f57/broad-cyclamen-mites-43146/
also here
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=194681&highlight=cyclamen
Good luck and feel free to PM me if you need further advice on treatment..
Max

SKUNK420 · Dec 30, 2011

I hate those things. I've been battling them for some time now. I've gone full cycles with no treatment and no problems but now they are messing up everything. Those little pieces of crap will also get into the root zone.

I just picked up some Evergreen from the local hydro store. I've used this stuff before on root aphids with great success. There is another store also selling small dosages of Avid. You can use the Evergreen on the leaves and the root zone. Avid is only for the leaves.

max_well · Dec 30, 2011

Hey S420
Are you certain you see broad/cyclamen mites in the root zone? If you've had root aphids in the past maybe that's what you are seeing at the root.
I've researched these quite a bit and have not seen any mention of presence in the root zone. They do hide out down into the meristem tissue (newest growth shoots), and are very tiny, almost requiring magnification to be seen (although those in my garden could be seen with the eye, 30X was required for identification). Also, they do resemble immature root aphids in shape and coloring, but they are much smaller and do not move nearly as fast. They would be hard to detect in the soil or on roots because of their size, but I would be surprised if they actually feed on root tissue.

SKUNK420 said:
I hate those things. I've been battling them for some time now. I've gone full cycles with no treatment and no problems but now they are messing up everything. Those little pieces of crap will also get into the root zone.

I just picked up some Evergreen from the local hydro store. I've used this stuff before on root aphids with great success. There is another store also selling small dosages of Avid. You can use the Evergreen on the leaves and the root zone. Avid is only for the leaves.

Grow Tech · Dec 30, 2011

Max_Well & Skunk420.....Thanks for the input!

Come to find out the Floramite I used as a pre-flower preventitive is not effective on Broad Mites or Cyclamen Mites.

I see Abamectin ( generic Avid?) and Dicofol listed as effective controls but the Dicofol is listed for ornamentals only & the Abamectin supposedly is present for 71 days ( too long at this point)

Im going to call Sierra Natural to see if SNS-217 is effective on Broad Mites.

I may go with predators though if no safe chemical solution presents itself-
Neoseiulus californicus
COMMON NAME: Californicus
FAMILY: Phytoseiidae
GENUS: Neoseiulus (formerly: Amblyseius)
SPECIES: californicus

ORIGIN: California and Florida

HOST PEST: Spider mites, Broad mite, Cyclamen mite.

HOST PLANT: Strawberries, Corn, Grapes, Roses, Vegetables, Ornamentals

LIFE STAGES: Egg, Larvae, Protonymph, Deutonymph, and Adult

SEX RATIO: Females predominant 2 to 1.

DEVELOPMENT: Completes a generation in one to two weeks depending on temperature.

ENVIRONMENT: Does best in warm humid conditions, but will also tolerate low humidity (40% - 80%rh at 50° - 105°F). Occurs naturally along coast and inland valleys of California, Florida, Chile and around the Mediterranian Sea.

AUGMENTATION: Californicus is a very versatile predator. It tolerates a wider range of temperatures and lower humidities than P. persimilis. It is being used on a wide variety of plants including; strawberries, raspberries, roses, grapes, ornamentals and vegetables. Typical release rates are 1/sq ft., 20-40,000/acre, 100,000/ha. Rates are dependent upon pest levels and desired speed of control. Recommended pest/predator ratio at time of release is 10/1. Avoid releases in temperatures below 45° F. or above 85° F and during dry windy conditions. It is preferable to release predators in the morning while humidities are high and the soil is not hot. It is extremely important to release predators as soon as pest mites appear in the crop.

PESTICIDES: Susceptible to many pesticides. Field tolerance will vary with type of spray, timing, application methods, weather and crop. Avoid spraying crop one week before or after releasing predators. Some pesticides may remain toxic to predators for up to four weeks.
STORAGE: Highly perishable, should be released immediately upon delivery. If storage is absolutely necessary, refrigerate at 55ºF. (12ºC). Not to exceed 5 days, to minimize mortality.

BIOLOGY: The following data are based on a temperature of 25ºC (77ºF).
Egg: The egg is oval and much larger than spider mite eggs. Hatch in 2 days.
Larval: Non feeding stage, 1/2 day.
Protonymph: First feeding stage, 1 1/2 days.
Deutonumph: Second feeding stage, 1 day.
Egg to adult: five days.
Preoviposition period: 1 1/2 days.
Average temperatures higher than 77ºF. will speed up reproduction. Temperatures lower than 77ºF will slow down reproduction. Reproduction stops at about 55ºF. Reproduction continues up to 95ºF and survival has been noted at 110 degrees F. At 77ºF the females consumed 5.3 spider mite eggs per day.
At 77ºF the females laid 3.1 eggs/day and laid 43 eggs during lifetime.
During the ovipositional period the females consumed 16.3 eggs per day for about 13.4 days. The intrinsic rate of increase (rm) is 0.29. This means that at this temperature the predator population can increase at the rate of 29%/day under favorable conditions. There is some evidence that californicus can survive on pollen but not reproduce.

Most of this data is from a publication by; Wei-Lan Ma and J.E. Laing, Biology -- of Amblyseius (Neoseiulus)californicus, Entomophaga, 1973, 47-60.

Storm Shadow · Dec 31, 2011

When I had this problem... this is what I found ...prior to this I was going crazy... I bought a nice handheld Scope from Frys and was relieved to finally see my enemy in its face...
AVID and FORBID 4F ...very important to use a wetting agent...the best is Indicate 5...
Avid and Forbid with Indicate 5.... Say goodnight.... Man I hate these things with a passion

max_well · Dec 31, 2011

Hey SS
thanks for your input and great photos. Did you have success in fully eradicating with Avid / Forbid? I was lucky to catch these pests when my plants were still in keg cups vegging, and alternating treatments of the above have seemed to do the trick, although I'm still watching closely as I approach flip... some research suggests liquid sulfur products are also effective-- this might be a good third attack to use as part of an IPM
http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5456

Storm Shadow said:
When I had this problem... this is what I found ...prior to this I was going crazy... I bought a nice handheld Scope from Frys and was relieved to finally see my enemy in its face...
AVID and FORBID 4F ...very important to use a wetting agent...the best is Indicate 5...
Avid and Forbid with Indicate 5.... Say goodnight.... Man I hate these things with a passion

Grow Tech · Dec 31, 2011

Crap...I had a bunch of detailed info written out but it got lost when I went to post. Here's most the info minus things like references-

Broad Mites are sensitive to heat. I saw multiple references to submerging plants in ~110f water for 15-25 mins

I saw one mention of treating plants with 30 mins of "110f heat @ 100% humidity"

Storm is right. Avid & Forbid are the modern day miticides that are most readily available and have anywhere near reasonable residual times( assuming you're in veg). I agree with Max_Well that sulfur could be a good addition to IPM. I saw many mentions of using wettable sulfur ( ie Safer brand Fungicide) for mite control. There are other chemicals out there labeled for Broad Mite but most of them are only available in LARGE quantities or have unacceptable residuals ( ie Talstar with is 3 mth residual)

A warm, dry environment slows the Broad mite down

Natagonnaworrie · Jan 2, 2012

sorry, i am a little late catching on to this...

i havent had any issues w my plants but if this is something that is invisible maybe i am missing it. I will have to break out the USB microscope.

Assuming that someone has broad mites; is this the agreed upon treatment (per storm shadow)

Avid and Forbid with Indicate 5

I always burn sulfur in early flower as well (but i am still veggin)

I am thinking Avid, then 3 days later Forbid. Or are you guys mixing them together then using that solution twice?

Thanks folks

Nothing like scaring a grower with the possibility of an invisible mite

:wallbash:

SKUNK420 · Jan 2, 2012

From my experience with these very hard to see little punks is that they don't leave any signs of true plant damage. The very small size means they can hide next the veins of a leaf and in the tips of new shoots making it very difficult to get your choice of pesticide in those areas even with a wetting agent. There always seem to be a few that survive, and it only takes one to F you over. I also noticed one time they were still on my fingers after doing an inspection. So be care not to cross contaminate, especially from your shirt or forearms rubbing on the plants.

edit 8-28-13:
Now using 2ml Avid, 1ml Eagle 20, DM Saturator when I transplant to my flower containers. Rooted clone > rockwool 3x3 veg out 10" DUNK in solution > transplant to flower container, more veg then flower = no bugs or pm so far. I try to do the treatment early in hopes it wears off out of the plants. I do low power long term veg T-5 4' 4 bulbs @ 18-6 5-6 wks.

Storm Shadow · Jan 2, 2012

Here's the best way to deal with these punks...Everything in R.O/Distilled Water...

Forbid 3ml a gallon mixed with Indicate 5....3 days later....Avid 2.5ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5.... 3 days later Spinosad 60ml per Gallon mixed with INdicate 5.... 2 days later Triple Action Neem Oil mix per label DO NOT Use with any wetting agent....2 days later Azatrol or Azamax 30ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5..I like Neemix 4.5 way better then Azamax or Azatrol... Azasol would be awsome too....

Anyways...this seems kind of overkill right? FUck no... these bastards are crazy and do die on contact from Miticides...they take a week or two to fully die off...thats why we add the Spinosad and Triple Action Neem Oil...both are contact killers to those fuckers...and the azadirachtin just puts the icing on the cake ....

Spend the money now and avoid the damage then truely cause...they are selective in what plants they toast ....and sometimes they will let it ride out till the end...like I said evil... Use all the above products and you will be clean from any Bastard from Mite family.

:ying:

Good Luck and dont be scared to pull out the chems on these dudes..they will not die any other way

Grow Tech · Jan 2, 2012

Natagonnaworrie said:
sorry, i am a little late catching on to this...

i havent had any issues w my plants but if this is something that is invisible maybe i am missing it. I will have to break out the USB microscope.

Assuming that someone has broad mites; is this the agreed upon treatment (per storm shadow)

Avid and Forbid with Indicate 5

I always burn sulfur in early flower as well (but i am still veggin)

I am thinking Avid, then 3 days later Forbid. Or are you guys mixing them together then using that solution twice?

Thanks folks

Nothing like scaring a grower with the possibility of an invisible mite

Hey Nata

Happy New Year
I have predator Mites coming for the girls i have that are now ~4 weeks into flower.

For my Veg plants I'm going with Forbid 4F and then Bifenthrin which is also labeled for Broad mite and is very inexpensive. It can be obtained online ( but not instore) through HomeDepot. Bifenthrin is not a systemic but has a pretty substancial residual. I would not personally use it on anything but small plants that would be putting out alot of new growth before flowering. If I had Avid sitting around I'd probably use that instead of Bifenthrin...but I dont & $ is tight now.

@ Storm Shadow-
I've got some Dutch Master "Gold Range Saturator". The Label says 2oz/ quart so...8oz per /gal which seems like alot. How much of that per gallon would you suggest as a sub for Indicate5?

Storm Shadow · Jan 2, 2012

Indicate 5 bro ...a small amount goes a long way... i would say 1 tsp per 1-2 gallons....

Turns the color pink/reddish and your good to go...takes only a few seconds for it to change the color..then its ready to use... remember to always whip up a fresh batch and discard whatever left overs you might have....

Grow Tech · Jan 2, 2012

Storm Shadow said:
Indicate 5 bro ...a small amount goes a long way... i would say 1 tsp per 1-2 gallons....

Turns the color pink/reddish and your good to go...takes only a few seconds for it to change the color..then its ready to use... remember to always whip up a fresh batch and discard whatever left overs you might have....

alrighty...anyone have a good source for it? Im not seeing it when I'm doing searches

Storm Shadow · Jan 2, 2012

http://www.tampaagriculturalproducts.com/surfactants/indicate-5/

http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product40.html

Natagonnaworrie · Jan 3, 2012

Grow Tech said:
I've got some Dutch Master "Gold Range Saturator". The Label says 2oz/ quart so...8oz per /gal which seems like alot. How much of that per gallon would you suggest as a sub for Indicate5?

Happy New Year Bud!
The dilution rate for the Dutch Master is the worst. I couldn't believe it when i read it. After i finished a bottle i switched back to a drop or two of Dawn kitchen soap.

I am going to try to get the Indicate 5.

Storm. That does seem like over kill but i understand that the war on mites is one that needs to be won at any cost. Unfortunately that cost is going to be high when you are not in the clone or 'teen' stage. Fuck.

I have yet to see ANY signs of bugs. Maybe i didn't have them last run. What the for sure sign? My yield wasn't too down from the norm

Grow Tech · Jan 3, 2012

Natagonnaworrie said:
I have yet to see ANY signs of bugs. Maybe i didn't have them last run. What the for sure sign? My yield wasn't too down from the norm

You need to spend some time checking the newest growth of your plants with a ~30x hand scope. The 60-100x scope I got from Radio Shack works too but I find the 30x is much better for pest scouting.

Broad Mites?

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