How I've thwarted drug dogs multiple times, and how you can too!

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

Edit: There's been a lot of arguing in this thread so I have removed the contents of this first post. The main ideas of the methods are on the 7th page:

Here is a link:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4813041&postcount=98

For the sake of controversy, I am no longer advocating the deer urine method. Perhaps I have gotten lucky with it, but according to others it is to circumstantial and chancy and is likely to fail to distract the dog, so it is best to not test your luck. You may not be as lucky as I have.

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Edited

Endur · Nov 30, 2011

Some good solid advice.
thanks for sharing, OpenStrife

peace
endur

Yes4Prop215 · Nov 30, 2011

nice post...ive always wondered about that as well, using dogs to distract dogs. sometimes i ride around with my dog in my car and im sure he would take most of the dogs focus..

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

Yes4Prop215 said:
nice post...ive always wondered about that as well, using dogs to distract dogs. sometimes i ride around with my dog in my car and im sure he would take most of the dogs focus..

Your dog would distract the dog, the officer knows this. He will make you take the dog out of the car probably.. If he really suspects you. Though your dog would have to go far away. I've thought of travelling with my kitten before, but I've been too worried about the kitten running away when the cop makes me open the door and put my hands up there(if he does).

If you have a dog, he might put the dog in the back of his car while his dog searches. Same with any kind of animal that can be moved.

Though, deer piss sprayed under your car and on spots it wont appear, can not be moved.

The way i see it though, if you get to the point where the officer even wants to search your car, let alone bring a dog out, you're doing something wrong, unless he wanted to search before pulling you over. Remember, HAVE NOTHING around the car that will give him reason to call the dog. And when he ask to do a brief search of the car, respond CALMLY and not under pressure in any way and say yes. Don't hessitate, do as any law abiding person would do and say sure go ahead. The cop will take a quick look around and be done. Your lack of fear or anxiety will tell him you are being honest.

supermanlives · Nov 30, 2011

officer , damn son those are some heavy chips you got LOL. interesting read to say the least

mad librettist · Nov 30, 2011

Both the drive to find the toy (prey) and the drive to find the deer are the same. It would be pretty easy to teach a dog to ignore deer piss. Its simply a matter of creating a stronger reward for getting the toy, and no reward for following deer piss.

So I would mix it up and not rely on just deer as it is easy for leo to get too.

supermanlives · Nov 30, 2011

i love the idea of having a receipt . if you packaged it without and prints or dna you could probably sue lays if busted.a well trained dog will ignore anything but his intended target smell. end of story

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

supermanlives said:
officer , damn son those are some heavy chips you got LOL. interesting read to say the least

I usually use off brand chips that are rather dense. Lately I've been using these "Clancy's corn chips, big dippers"

The bags are usually stuffed to the brim. So I don't need to worry about all that puffy air getting escaped like most chip bags when I open them.

When I pack the bud, I just take out enough chips to make the bud fit securely in the MIDDLE of the bag, so that the vaccumsealed bag corners can't be felt if he happens to squeeze the bag.

With the chips I use, you can't tell any weight difference between an unopened bag, vs a bag I've stuffed 1-2 ounces in.

To put it into perspective, these chips I use, 1 serving of the chips, weighs 1 ounce. 1 serving is 11 chips. These chips are sort of big. I can take 15 chips out and put the bag of vac sealed bud in, and walaa, no weight difference to the naked human hand. I doubt the officer would weigh the bag and calculate how much it weighs.

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

mad librettist said:
Both the drive to find the toy (prey) and the drive to find the deer are the same. It would be pretty easy to teach a dog to ignore deer piss. Its simply a matter of creating a stronger reward for getting the toy, and no reward for following deer piss.

So I would mix it up and not rely on just deer as it is easy for leo to get too.

My cousin is a K9 unit officer. At least around here, they don't train dogs in the prescense of piss, or to ignore the piss.

If the piss smell is all around the exterior of your car, and on stuff in the interior, it will distract the dog. The dog will think there is a live animal around. This concern will top the concern of his nonliving toy. A good way to think is that, think of drug dogs as mentally deficient dogs. That's why they run into walls and shit when tracking down there toy. They are easily distracted.

supermanlives said:
i love the idea of having a receipt . if you packaged it without and prints or dna you could probably sue lays if busted.a well trained dog will ignore anything but his intended target smell. end of story

I didn't think about that. It could also take the liability off you, possibly, if you can do it securely and carefully enough.

I also talked to my lawyer today and found out that if you have Mail in your car with illegal goods in it, and the officer finds it, the owner of the mail is liable. So if the mail is not in your name and you didn't know what was in there, then you're good. Coming up with why you have the mail is another part, easy to come up with an excuse, maybe it got sent to your address by mistake, or you have a business and pick up mail for your employees, etc.

sunnydog · Nov 30, 2011

Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm

If you say you have gotten away with this, awesome!
However, I have owned and trained a good # of dogs.
None of mine would be deceived by this.
Hunting dogs, blind guide dogs ect. would not be able to focus .
Vacu. sealing probably saved you.

Also, while the chippy thing is pretty good, I would be concerned about charges of product tampering if detected.

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

Oh, one more tip guys, I've used it before and not been charged.

Back before I used deer piss, I would always carry a small amount of bud in the car like .2g, hidden in the gas tank compartment.

When I didn't have the deer piss, if the cop searched and found nothing, and then asked me if I was sure there was nothing in the car, I would act all nervous and sketchy and be like okay okay fine. I have some weed, and then start to beg asking him not to tell my dad, acting like it's all serious. (I was only 19 at the time)

I tell him the weed is in the gas compartment, he see's that I was freaking out over .2grams and doesn't even bother giving me a ticket. He internally laughs im sure and throws it out and tells me to be on my way. By faking a freak out over such a small minor amount, acting like he's pushed you to the breaking point of fessing up, then acting like you're super sorry, etc, he will just give you a warning. He will think you're just a person smoking minorly and not a serious threat. I've done this 2 times and gotten away with it. If you play your part, the officer will not charge you, because NO judge will charge you on an amount as small as .2 or .1. It's unheard of. You have to be believable though.

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

sunnydog said:
If you say you have gotten away with this, awesome!
However, I have owned and trained a good # of dogs.
None of mine would be deceived by this.
Hunting dogs ect. would not be able to focus on a target.
Vacu. sealing probably saved you.

Also, while the chippy thing is pretty good, I would be concerned about charges of product tampering if detected.

I'm not decieving the dog. I am playing on his instincts and distracting him. I said in an earlier post that my friend had his house searched and the cops gave up because their dogs could not get over the scent of all the animals that lived in the house from day to day. It massively distracts them.

I don't know much about dogs, but I know the dogs used for hunting generally aren't the same dogs that cops use, at least from what I've observed. A dog for hunting is prided on his concentration to keep a scent and tune out distractions. Police dogs are known for being very loyal, friendly, ADHD in nature, and having one hell of a nose, along with insane amounts of energy levels and quick sharp movements that contributes to their inability to stay concentrated. They are essentially retarded.
From what I've observed, a hound dog is not going to run into a wall chasing a ball, they are not that overwhelmed with that ADHD type of energy. A police dog is. Though, I haven't seen both side by side comparison, I'm just going off what I've seen in the past.

They could get you on product tampering if you weren't careful enough, but if the cop got that far and found your bud, then you must have done something wrong or acting suspiciously.

Edit: Another note, if you've seen Barry Coopers never get busted videos, he says if you stop near a dead deer, or any animal, the dog will NOT be able to focus on finding the bud, because of the animals scent. They will make you drive 2 miles up the road. Same goes for strong deer urine. You could even get creative by using multiple kinds of deer urine, deer in heat urine, fresh buck urine, etc.

sunnydog · Nov 30, 2011

OpenStrife said:
Oh, one more tip guys, I've used it before and not been charged.

Back before I used deer piss, I would always carry a small amount of bud in the car like .2g, hidden in the gas tank compartment.

When I didn't have the deer piss, if the cop searched and found nothing, and then asked me if I was sure there was nothing in the car, I would act all nervous and sketchy and be like okay okay fine. I have some weed, and then start to beg asking him not to tell my dad, acting like it's all serious. (I was only 19 at the time)

I tell him the weed is in the gas compartment, he see's that I was freaking out over .2grams and doesn't even bother giving me a ticket. He internally laughs im sure and throws it out and tells me to be on my way. By faking a freak out over such a small minor amount, acting like he's pushed you to the breaking point of fessing up, then acting like you're super sorry, etc, he will just give you a warning. He will think you're just a person smoking minorly and not a serious threat. I've done this 2 times and gotten away with it. If you play your part, the officer will not charge you, because NO judge will charge you on an amount as small as .2 or .1. It's unheard of. You have to be believable though.

This ones better! However, back in the Old days, I was arrested for that much weed. Unfortunately it is "all serious"

SoulMachete · Nov 30, 2011

thank you for the excellant tips....however...i believe the answer to "do you consent to a search of your vehicle?" is always....NO! if they wanna search they are going to but by not consenting you are putting the police in position to make a lot of mistakes that could help you later.

any opinions on that?

peace....

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

SoulMachete said:
thank you for the excellant tips....however...i believe the answer to "do you consent to a search of your vehicle?" is always....NO! if they wanna search they are going to but by not consenting you are putting the police in position to make a lot of mistakes that could help you later.

any opinions on that?

peace....

Cops are people too, never forget it. If they make a request, and you resist, it will stir up resentment of some level. Sure their mistakes can help you later, but you never want them to accidently stumble upon your bud because you stired up drama and resisted. If they get mad when you say no, and somehow do something illegal but find your bud, they can always say in court that they smelled in and didn't tell you, or they did tell you and you didn't hear. Boom, reasonable cause on their behalf and you're fucked. The judge will always take the officers word over yours. Especially if you're caught with bud.

I don't know about you, everyone I've ridden with legally, even my friends who do not smoke, allow a cop to search their car. If your car is clean, it wont even take long.

A person following the law should have no problem with it because usually when they ask and you conscent calmly they just do a brief search, because, you have nothing to hide, right?

Why would someone who is hiding nothing resist a search so badly? Why do they care? The cop is just doing his job, and they're not breaking the law. By saying no, you always raise suspicion.

Sure, the cop may not be able to find a reason to search your car, but if your bud is hidden cleverely like in a bag of chips, he wont find anything. You want to avoid drama at all cost, and saying no is bound to stir up some drama.

When I've been pulled myself while carrying nothing, I always consent to a search because it takes them like 2 minutes, TOPS, sometimes just a few seconds brief look around, I could careless. Because when the search is done, I am on my way.

You actually spend more time being pulled over by saying no and arguing with the cop, than if you just let him search and let him find nothing. He wont open your chip bags lol, or anything else he's unlikely to go in.

mad librettist · Nov 30, 2011

OpenStrife said:
My cousin is a K9 unit officer. At least around here, they don't train dogs in the prescense of piss, or to ignore the piss.

If the piss smell is all around the exterior of your car, and on stuff in the interior, it will distract the dog. The dog will think there is a live animal around. This concern will top the concern of his nonliving toy. A good way to think is that, think of drug dogs as mentally deficient dogs. That's why they run into walls and shit when tracking down there toy. They are easily distracted.

I didn't think about that. It could also take the liability off you, possibly, if you can do it securely and carefully enough.

I also talked to my lawyer today and found out that if you have Mail in your car with illegal goods in it, and the officer finds it, the owner of the mail is liable. So if the mail is not in your name and you didn't know what was in there, then you're good. Coming up with why you have the mail is another part, easy to come up with an excuse, maybe it got sent to your address by mistake, or you have a business and pick up mail for your employees, etc.

Bro you are asking for it. My dog is obsessed with chasing deer, but the frisbee conquers all. In the presence of a frisbee he will ignore all dogs, prey, food, or anything else. One of these days you will get one who is like my dog and your deer piss wont work.

If I were leo, and involved in training dogs, I would be approaching this from your perspective. I would include deer piss in the training, because it is so easy to get.

sunnydog · Nov 30, 2011

A key element in ANY dog training is to work under extreme distraction.

OpenStrife · Nov 30, 2011

mad librettist said:
Bro you are asking for it. My dog is obsessed with chasing deer, but the frisbee conquers all. In the presence of a frisbee he will ignore all dogs, prey, food, or anything else. One of these days you will get one who is like my dog and your deer piss wont work.

If I were leo, and involved in training dogs, I would be approaching this from your perspective. I would include deer piss in the training, because it is so easy to get.

I'm pretty sure law enforcement uses only one type of dog for searches. Mainly this is because of the behaviors of the dog. Sure they can use another dog but they're giving up certain behavior qualities, such as compliance and other things.

Yes, your dog WILL chase the frisby, because he sees it. If the dog smells the deer first, he will be preoccupied with that instead, because he doesn't see the toy.

Js, these are just theories, and how I've not been detected by dogs before. In my area, the many dogs I have seen in my searches, my cousins K9 dog, and other people getting searched, have always been the same.

Maybe I have been lucky, but I know my thinking and my choices have kept me many many years without police detection of over felony amounts of drugs in the most throughou of police searches. So I'm confident in what I say.

sunnydog said:
A key element in ANY dog training is to work under extreme distraction.

Also, both of you, can you explain why cops say animals can't be around during a drug search, including dead animals on the road, or animals in the car? Cops know it distracts them. The dogs can't fight their primal instincts, of what is already present, versus what they are searching for, at least the dogs the police are using.

They are going to go for what they already smell, the animal, versus what they are being told TO FIND. The dog doesn't automatically know where your bud is the moment they tell him to search. If he finds the deer smell first, he's done for.

Edit: I'm also going to continually keep bringing up my friends story who had animals living in his house. Cops couldn't locate his 20lb stash because there were too many animal scents and it was the first thing the dogs smell. The cops gave up because they knew the dogs wouldnt work in that scenario. Just saying

mad librettist · Nov 30, 2011

You got one thing straight. You don't know much about dogs.

Like I said, the toy drive IS the prey drive, IS the drive to chase deer. This will only work as long as the dog is not a great dog. As you put it, a retarded dog.

A well trained dog will ignore all but the target scents, save new scents. A really good dog will even ignore a new scent.

Gun dogs are not the same thing at all. Your model is more tracking than sighting. Not startling the prey is not that important in tracking but important for ambushes.

m314 · Nov 30, 2011

These sound like good tips for tricking the drug dog. How often does this really come up, though? Maybe the cops don't look too closely at me as a clean cut looking white guy, but I've never had my car searched or even been asked.

These are some simple tips that would have helped friends of mine who got busted. Don't put weed bumper stickers on your car. Don't drive with weed while you're wearing cannabis related shirts or hats. Don't get high and then drive with weed; you might think you're ok but the cops can tell. Don't drive with weed just in a plastic bag; always use mason jars sealed tightly. Don't speed if you have weed in the car. Simple things can help you avoid the attention of the cops. I don't know, maybe the cops will try to search the car anyway if you're the "wrong" race or if you look like a stereotypical stoner.

How I've thwarted drug dogs multiple times, and how you can too!

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