DIY Nutrients formulations, recipes, chemistry etc.

funkymonkey · Dec 27, 2010

Hello folks

Like many people, I long ago realised that 99% of bottles in the hydro store are way overpriced and very dilute. Therefore I became interested in learning what's in these products and making my own alternatives much cheaper from raw ingredients. I don't know much if any chemistry but I can do maths and mix common salts with water to make nute mixes.

Here's a great example of how simple a lot of nute formulations are, this is the formula for original Hammerhead (the 0-9-18 labelled one), courtesy of mullray:

Mono Potassium Phosphate 107g
Potassium Sulphate 68g
Magnesium Sulphate 4g

Those salt values are for one litre of stock solution, basically you put the salts into a litre bottle, add distilled water and shake till it all dissolves et voila, you have a litre of Hammerhead for a tiny fraction of the retail cost.

I'm trying to find other recipes and formulas so this thread is to gather as many recipes, tips and info in one place as possible, so fire awat guys and post up any info you have!

funkymonkey · Dec 27, 2010

Here's a better PK Booster recipe, again courtesy of mullray:

PK 13-14 %w/v (US Standards) = PK 5.6- 11.76 elemental
Ammonium Citrate Buffered with Mg, S, N and B.

In order of Addition:

1 Litre Batch:

600mL Demineralised Water
81.0g Ammonium Hydroxide Solution 25%w/w
54.75g Citric Acid Anhydrous
223.1g Phosphoric Acid 81%w/w
185.4g Potassium Hydroxide flake 90%
80.9g Magnesium Sulphate heptahydrate
18.24g Sulphuric Acid 67%w/w
2.5g Disodium Octoborate (solubor)

Make up to 1 Litre with approx. 30-40mL of demineralised water

pH should be approx. 5.6 to 5.8 adjust to pH 5.5 with citric acid if needed.

Note: Ammonium hydroxide should be handled in a fume cupboard/fume extraction until dissolution of citric acid is complete.

Expected Analysis w/v:

NH4OH = 39.97% N @ 25%w/w = 9.99%N @81.0g 0.8%N
H3PO4 = 31.0% P @ 81%w/w = 25.11%P @ 223.1g 5.6%P
KOH = 69.6%K @ 90%w/w = 62.64%K @ 185.4g 11.61%K
MgSO4.7H2O = 9.9% Mg, 13.0%S @ 80.9g 0.8%Mg, 1.05%S
H2SO4 = 32.7%S @ 67%w/w = 21.9%S @ 18.24g 0.4%S
Na2B8O13.4H2O = 21.0%B @ 2.5g 0.0525%B
N=0.8% P=5.6% (13% as P2O5) K=11.61% (14% as K2O) Mg=0.8% S=1.45% B=0.0525%

If required ammonium hydroxide solution and citric acid can be replaced by using Ammonium Citrate Dibasic @ 64.65g/L to give 0.8% N.

Enjoy and oh after blasting them with this hit them with a NO3 mix for a week and watch them swell.

BerndV · Dec 27, 2010

Another great thing about mixing your own nutrients is the ability to control the purity of the base chemicals used. I am currently researching how to mix my own custom blends using reagent grade chemicals as opposed to fertilizer grade chemicals. Despite the higher cost of the base chemicals, I will still be able to beat the price of most of the liquid fertilizers on the market and simultaneously end up with a superior product.

On an even simpler level, many growers use nitric acid for a pH down product. Unfortunately, nitric acid is commonly contaminated with lead. You can make your own nitric acid pH down using ultra pure A.C.S reagent grade nitric acid and still save money.

funkymonkey · Dec 27, 2010

Some very good points there BerndV. I get most of my chemicals on ebay and they are reagent grade. I do use some fertiliser grade things I picked up at the local garden centre. The mono potassium phosphate I have is fertiliser grade but the potassium sulphate I have is reagent grade, no idea if this works better than fertiliser grade sulphate of potash but it's the same price so I went for that.

I use Citric Acid for PH down, works good for me, I got a kilo of it for about 4ukp.

ganjasuiteseat · Dec 27, 2010

tag time.lol

DrCaligari · Dec 27, 2010

This is great. I've always wondered about mixing my own nutes. Thanks for sharing =)

funkymonkey · Dec 27, 2010

There's not a lot of salts in a typical two-part nutrient.

Here are the basic formulas to make a Veg (2-1-2) Bloom (1-1-2) and Finish (0-1-2) nutrient. You would need to add a trace element to these to complete, but it gives you an idea of just what's in most bottles of A+B and it's a lot less than you'd think, volume of each part is 1 litre:

Grow Formula (1 litre, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)

This formula closely equates to a ppm N

:K:Mg ratio of 150:50:100:50

Part A
Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) KNO3 = 9.6 g
Calcium Nitrate Ca(NO3)2/Ammonium Nitrate double salt = 94.3 g

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H2O = 50.7 g
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 22 g

Bloom Formula (1 litre, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)

This formula closely equates to a ppm N

:K:Mg ratio of 100:100:200:60

Part A
Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) KNO3 = 19.2 g
Calcium Nitrate Ca(NO3)2/Ammonium Nitrate double salt = 50.6 g

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H2O = 60.9 g
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 44 g

Finish Formula (1 litre, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)

This formula closely equates to a ppm N

:K:Mg ratio of 000:100:200:60

Part A
Potassium Sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) K2SO4 = 16.6 g
Calcium Chloride CaCl2 = 30 g

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H20 = 60.9 g
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 44 g

YosemiteSam · Dec 27, 2010

That is a lot of chloride in the finishing product. Have you actually used that formula?

plus technically speaking wouldn't you want the sul-po in the B part of the soln...away from the Ca?

funkymonkey · Dec 27, 2010

I haven't used that finishing formula yet, I forget where I found the recipes now, might have been a fatman recipe in ounces per gallon to make up a res and I tweaked the numbers in hydrobuddy to get a grams per litre stock solution formula.

tester · Dec 28, 2010

I just found a typo (in the bloom formula, part B, MgSO4 was 6.9 the correct amount is 60.9g (corrected here)), but since I'm already here I made the US version with gallons, and added Ca and S contents

funkymonkey said:
There's not a lot of salts in a typical two-part nutrient.

Here are the basic formulas to make a Veg (2-1-2) Bloom (1-1-2) and Finish (0-1-2) nutrient. You would need to add a trace element to these to complete, but it gives you an idea of just what's in most bottles of A+B and it's a lot less than you'd think, volume of each part is 1 litre:

Grow Formula (1 gallon, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)
This formula closely equates to a ppm N:K:Mg:Ca:S ratio of 150:50:100:50: 170Ca : 66S + 9.4NH4

Part A
Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) KNO3 = 36.34 g (= 1.282 oz)
Calcium Nitrate Ca(NO3)2/Ammonium Nitrate double salt = 356.96 g (= 12.592 oz)

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H2O = 191.92 g (= 6.77 oz)
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 83.28 g (= 2.938 oz)

Bloom Formula (1 gallon, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)
This formula closely equates to a ppm N:K:Mg ratio of 100:100:200:60 (according to my calculations your recipe gives: 100N : 39P : 123K : 60Mg : 96Ca : 79S.
44 gramms of KH2PO4 should be used instead of 17.2g to get 100:100:200:60 This recipe is CORRECTED according to this )

Part A
Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) KNO3 = 72.68 g (= 2.564 oz)
Calcium Nitrate Ca(NO3)2/Ammonium Nitrate double salt = 191.54 g (= 6.756 oz)

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H2O = 230.53 g (= 8.132 oz)
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 166.56 g (= 5.875 oz)

Finish Formula (1 gallon, 100:1 concentration, add at 10ml/l)
This formula closely equates to a ppm N:K:Mg ratio of 0N :100P : 200K : 60Mg :55Ca : 80S : 97Cl (!)

Part A
Potassium Sulphate (Sulphate of Potash) K2SO4 = 62.84 g (= 2.217 oz)
Calcium Chloride CaCl2.6H2O = 113.56 g (= 4.006 oz)

Part B
Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salt) MgSO4.7H20 = 230.53 g (= 8.132 oz)
Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2PO4 = 166.56 g (= 5.875 oz)

CaCL2 (anihydrid) is very expensive, .6H2O sounds better but I would not use it here.
Why did you choose it?

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

Thanks for spotting the typo, I have corrected it. That's cool that you've translated it into Imperial measurements, thanks for that. Imperial went out in 1972 in the UK so I struggle a bit with the maths when using Imperial measures, I grew up on Metric so it's kinda ingrained to think in Metric!

100:1 is a bit dilute, 200:1 would probably be closer to the strength of a lot of two part nutes, to get that you would just double the weights of the salts for the given volume of liquid stock solution you're making up. It doesn't really matter of course, but some people might like to mix up a 200:1 strength solution because it would fit more closely with the regime they are used to.

tester · Dec 28, 2010

Since than I found some other problems too, please see my original post.

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

You're right, it should have been 44g and when I checked my notes, I actually have 44g for that value, I made a mistake when I typed it up for that post.

I forget where I found these recipes now, I've had them saved as a txt file for a while so I can't comment on the calcium chloride, I just copied the recipe as-is.

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

Another formula I have is this one a friend worked out for me as a copy of Canna COGR Flores:

Part A:

Calcium Nitrate 152.1 g
Potassium Nitrate 2.6 g

Part B:

Potassium Nitrate 2.6 g
Monopotassium Phosphate 40.1 9
Magnesium Sulphate 49.1 g

That would give a 200:1 stock solution with N

:K:Mg:Ca:S of 121:42:60:24:152:32

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

This is what Hydrobuddy gives me for a 200:100:200:60 formula with a 200:1 dilution.

N (NO3) 200 ppm
P 100 ppm
K 199.99 ppm
Ca 247.67 ppm
Mg 60 ppm

Concentrated A solution
Volume for solution A is 1 liters
To prepare your nutrient solutions you should add 5mL of A per liter of final nutrient solution
Remember that you need to add the salts to HALF the concentrated solution volume
and dissolve the salts before completing the volume to its intended value

KNO3 mass = 38.42 g
Ca(NO3)2 mass = 292.44 g

Concentrated B solution
Volume for solution B is 1 liters
To prepare your nutrient solutions you should add 5mL of B per liter of final nutrient solution
Remember that you need to add the salts to HALF the concentrated solution volume
and dissolve the salts before completing the volume to its intended value

MgSO4 mass = 121.72 g
KH2PO4 mass = 87.8 g

And this is what Hydrobuddy gives me for a 100:100:200:60 formula:

N (NO3) 100 ppm
P 100 ppm
K 199.99 ppm
Ca 104.81 ppm
Mg 60 ppm

Concentrated A solution
Volume for solution A is 1 liters
To prepare your nutrient solutions you should add 5mL of A per liter of final nutrient solution
Remember that you need to add the salts to HALF the concentrated solution volume
and dissolve the salts before completing the volume to its intended value

KNO3 mass = 38.42 g
Ca(NO3)2 mass = 123.76 g

Concentrated B solution
Volume for solution B is 1 liters
To prepare your nutrient solutions you should add 5mL of B per liter of final nutrient solution
Remember that you need to add the salts to HALF the concentrated solution volume
and dissolve the salts before completing the volume to its intended value

MgSO4 mass = 121.72 g
KH2PO4 mass = 87.8 g

tester · Dec 28, 2010

Do you have that software or is it just a picture you got?

funkymonkey said:
Another formula I have is this one a friend worked out for me as a copy of Canna COGR Flores:

Part A:

Calcium Nitrate 152.1 g
Potassium Nitrate 2.6 g

Part B:

Potassium Nitrate 2.6 g
Monopotassium Phosphate 40.1 9
Magnesium Sulphate 49.1 g

That would give a 200:1 stock solution with N:K:Mg:Ca:S of 121:42:60:24:152:32

Based on the label in those pictures (both contains the same numbers, I assume it refers to A+B (the two parts mixed together would give the percentages on the label.))

I was unable to find a full feeding schedule, but according to the hungarian directions

400ml A + 400ml B in 100L of water. this gives:

272 N
216 P2O5
94.2 P
472 K2O
391.8 K
200 Ca
72 Mg
2.24 Fe
0.56 B
1.12 Mn
0.16 Mo
28 Co
0.08 Cu
0.56 Zn
96 S

1159 PPM

N2O5:K2O ratio = 1.3 : 1 : 2.2
N:K ratio = 2.9 : 1 : 4.2
Ca:Mg ratio = 2.8 : 1
K:N ratio = 1.4 : 1
NO3:NH4 ratio = 0 : 0

And I still need to multiply these with the density if the percentages are in w/w%.

I don't understand why was your friend shooting for these numbers : 121:42:60:24:152:32

This is from an other source that list part B and part A nute content separately

Mixed in the same rate(400A+400B in 100l)

120 N
120 P2O5
52.3 P
280 K2O
232.4 K
88 Ca
0.08 Mo

493 PPM

N2O5:K2O ratio = 1 : 1 : 2.3
N:K ratio = 2.3 : 1 : 4.4
Ca:Mg ratio = 88 : 0
K:N ratio = 1.9 : 1
NO3:NH4 ratio = 0 : 0

Completely pointless....

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

The screenshot is from nutron 2000, I don't have it, that pic was what my friend sent me when I showed him the Canna labels.

Sorry, but what is pointless?

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

Here's a Youtube video of the House and Garden bottling facility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkgE...ent&view=category&layout=blog&id=38&Itemid=57

At 0:22 they show you the feed lines takign the raw salts to the mixing vats. If you notice the little blue viking shop logo, that's the logo of Yara, probably the largest supplier of agricultural chemicals in the world. I can buy 25 kilo bags of Yara chemicals at my local farm supplier so if I have the formulas, I can copy the H+G nutes with the exact same ingredients.

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

Here is a good article about mixing your own nutes that I think is a good primer on this subject everyone interested should read:

Hydroponic Nutrient Mixes and Requirements

Many hydroponic formulas have been developed over the past 40 years with some designed for specific plants while others are designed for general hydroponic gardening systems. For plant growth, the concentration of individual elements must stay within certain ranges that have been determined through scientific experimentation.

The average concentration of these elements should fall within these parameters:

* Nitrogen (nitrate form) 70 -300 PPM
* Nitrogen (ammonium form) 0 -31 PPM
* Potassium 200 -400 PPM
* Phosphorous 30 -90 PPM
* Calcium 150 -400 PPM
* Sulfur 60 -330 PPM
* Magnesium 25 -75 PPM
* Iron .5 -5.0 PPM
* Boron .1 -1.0 PPM
* Manganese .1 -1.0 PPM
* Zinc .02 -.2 PPM
* Molybdenum .01 -.1 PPM
* Copper .02 -.2 PPM

*PPM = parts per million

Hydroponic Nutrient Mixes

A gardener can purchase all of these minerals separately and mix their own hydroponic fertilizer. Unfortunately, the fertilizers that make up a hydroponic formula aren’t sold as pure nitrogen or pure potassium, so it gets more complex. They are sold as chemical compounds, such as calcium nitrate, potassium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, potassium sulfate and mono potassium phosphate.

Since there are many dependable pre-mix hydroponic formulas available, it is generally more efficient and more economical to use a proven hydroponic nutrient formula that contains all of the above mentioned hydroponic nutrients in the correct quantities for plant growth. one that you simply add to water.

Whether you are using a pre-mixed formula or creating your own” it is important to follow these guidelines:

1. Weigh or measure the nutrients carefully.
2. Place the nutrients in separate piles or containers to be sure the proportions make sense.
3. Be sure no components are left out or measured twice.
4. Accuracy should be within 5 %.
5. When you are sure the proportions are correct, pour your nutrients into the water in the mixing containers and stir vigorously. Nutrients will dissolve best in warm water.
6. Measure the nutrient concentration level and record it.

funkymonkey · Dec 28, 2010

Going back to House & Garden, let's have a look at one of their products and see if we can figure out the formula. From the H&G website:

House & Garden Coco Grow A+B

Coco Specific Nutrient

Product information

Coco fibre growing medium is known for its capillary action, it retains water and nutrients for a long period of time. For this reason cultivation in Coco requires a very well balanced main feed.

House and Garden Coco Grow nutrients are manufactured based on the needs of UK based growers, House & Garden are one of the only Dutch nutrient manufacturers to offer a grow formula of their base nutrient range. Other manufacturers only cater for the European market, where growers tend to have a much shorter grow cycle than here in the UK.

Because of this, UK growers using other brands can sometimes experience a deficiency in nitrogen as they start the flowering phase.

Application

House & Garden grow feeds contain large quantities of easily absorbable nitrogen, which encourages lush healthy growth and vigorous root activity during the growth phase. House & Garden Coco nutrient is a substrate specific nutrient which is highly concentrated. Consisting of two parts, an A and a B formula, all House & Garden base nutrients are manufactured using the highest grade mineral compounds. Growers using House & Garden products can expect the best yields and very high quality fruits.

That is all the info they have on the UK H&G site, there is also a nute schedule, but no info on the nutes themselves really.

There is at least a list of 'derived from' ingredients on the US H&G site:

Cocos

House & Garden exercised great care when formulating Cocos A&B. Every coco grower knows that it takes an extremely precise nutrient formulation to get it just right with a coco medium. Well, House & Garden has perfected it. Cocos A&B is one of the purest fertilizers on the market today, helping to eliminate salty buildup in your organic medium. House & Garden maintains their own nutrient manufacturing facility as well as their own laboratories where they continually test each batch of fertilizer they produce. This ensures that gardeners employing House & Garden products receive the highest and most consistent product available in the world.

Derived From: Calcium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, Nitric Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Phosphoric Acid Anhydride, and Magnesium Sulfate.

Ingredients Explained: Coco’s A&B is specifically formulated for gardeners who employ coco medium. As with all House & Garden products, Cocos A&B is extremely concentrated and has the lowest dilution rate available. All ingredients and additives are made with pharmaceutical and/or food grade ingredients in small batches to ensure a consistent quality and experience.

Application: Combine equal parts of Cocos A&B with feed water at a dilution rate of 1L of Cocos A and 1L of Cocos B per 250L of water.

Hmm, they list six ingredients, all of them pretty common to find in a horticultural setting.

Eventually I found that on their main Dutch site, H&G have PDFs to download with the specifications, this is the link to the Coco A+B one:

http://www.house-garden.nl/pdf_files/AZInfoSheetUSACocosA&B.pdf

DIY Nutrients formulations, recipes, chemistry etc.

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