Student loans/federal aid situation. MI

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=114096

In this thread is the situation that my little brother is in
We live in michigan, and my little bro was recently charged with posession of paraphernalia

I'm trying to figure out how expungement of a crime would affect student loans. I dont mean to use more space on the forum by making another thread, but the other thread had more stories on experiences of just being busted rather than advice on the bigger situation here.

I really dont believe its fair since it wasnt his bowl in the first place, he was just caught with it that they can take away his chance at a good education and future. he fully understands that what he did was stupid, and wrong and that he deserves the arrest.

but I dont have the heart to tell him straight up yet, that he might not be going to college. hes a bright kid with his whole future ahead of him.

please if you have any advice on challenging a case involving getting a record expunged to retrieve student loans/federal aid PLEASE reply

He has a court date on the 26th and could use all the advice he can find

Unfortunately, he has now lost his chances at federal aid. On the fafsa form, they ask you a few times to clarify if you've had a drug conviction. I believe the limit is ten years, so after that he would be eligible again. Most people do not realize how our country tries very hard to keep people uneducated, especially with tactics such as this. If you lie on the form, the department of education checks with agencies and he could end up doing time or paying back the money to the government so lying isnt a good option either. Contact a lawyer and see if they have any info. What a shame...there is a video about a girl on the mpp page who lost her funding due to a pipe with some resin in it.

so even in the case of expongement, hes screwed huh?...

man this is situation is horrible.

maybe I should reccomend the army to him...

yeah he's pretty much lost his chances at getting federal aid. he wont be able to get loans without filling out the fafsa and definitely won't be getting a PELL grant or lottery scholarship. the best thing he can hope for is he goes in to court, shows he's learned his lesson and hope the judge is cool enough to expunge it. if he's under 18, he'll still be good as everything is wiped off the record when he turns 18, at least thats how it is in my state. if this is his first offense it shouldn't affect him too badly; as long as its not felony possession i'd think.best of luck to him, and i hope that this incident doesnt completely dismantle his future. we all know how hard it is to get going at life while racking up thousands in education bills with a crashing economy, let alone having a criminal record start right at the beginning of one's life.

well, the thing about record expungement at 18 is that hes 17 but is being charged as an adult.

so if its expunged it still counts as being convicted of the crime?

Being charged as an adult and this court process taking the time it does (he'll most likely be 18 by the time this matter is settled right?) probably means his record will follow him unless the judge expunges (it isn't unheard of but not very common for a judge to Reverse their or another judges decision. They did Not in my case even though I haven't been in any real trouble in 20 years). A conviction for Misdemeanor possession CDS - Marijuana excludes me from Federal Aid and Low Interest Student Loans ... and my charge is Over 20 years old. It sucks. I thought no one who wanted an education was supposed to get left behind???

the things with a charge being expunged is its gone. non-existant. no longer there. thats why its great when you can get your record expunged. you start fresh. that charge no longer exists, or "ever did". BUT to get a charge expunged almost takes an arm and a leg, or a damn good lawyer. if he's 17 being charged as an adult, thats just it. he's getting the same law smacked down on him as a 50 year old man would. i'd do some research to see if they keep jeuvenille records and adult records seperate in your state, but here thats how they do it. they let you f up all you want when you a teen as long as its not a felony and they give you a clean slate at 18. if he's got felony possession then he's kinda screwed. last time i checked paraphenalia was only a misdemeanor though.

i'm not sure if the military would take him either. my understanding was they dont want anyone with a criminal background, let alone a skivvy stoner that might actually think for themselves.

I have to chime in.... I was in pretty much the SAME situation in November. I'm one state south of you........

I was driving to town, to make a long story short, got caught with scales and some weed. Got slapped with a possesion charge, and a parephenillia charge.

I too get federal aid for school, so this a big concern!!!!!!

Here is how it went. I got caught on the weekend, and they had me in court on Monday. This is when you put in your first plea, i plead not guilty!!! This is important, plea guilty and it will go on your record!!!

I'm poor as hell, so opted for the public defender.... So they set a pre-trial hearing a month later. I told my defender what my situation was. Didn't even see the guy till the pre-trial, go figure.

Basically the way my "defender" made it sound, they deal with this ALL the time. Pretty much they opted to let me post some kind of bond, where I didn't have to plea to anything, and no charge went on my record. Essentially it goes on your record as a big ticket, no criminal charge though.

The judge told me that the court doesn't want to ruin the future of a bright young man, blah blah blah, don't do it again, blah, lecture, blah.....

After it was all done, I pretty much had to pay my great state $450. However, if I plead guilty to begin with, i'd be screwed! And I know if i get caught again, I'm screwed!!!

I can't say how it goes in your state, but thats how it went for me. Just talk to a lawyer, defender, what ever.

Also to note: You don't loose your federal aid FOREVER. If you have one charge, you loose it for a year to that date. Two charges, you loose it for two years to that date. Thats how it got explained to me.

well his birthday is next november if that helps.

I cant believe this bullshit. Ima fucking grow enough to pay for his education if thats what it takes, but I can not fucking believe this country.

MR_P said:

I have to chime in.... I was in pretty much the SAME situation in November. I'm one state south of you........

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my condolences man, truly some messed up policies in this country.

so whats going on now? charges ever get dropped? anything work out?

I knew a guy that got busted with a hundred hits of acid at 17, and he got it expunged (he did lose his car, however). I'd say it is a bit early to say he has lost his chance at financial aid.

Get a lawyer. Good luck.

stink.whistler said:

Get a lawyer. Good luck.

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yeah thats probably his best option. get him a damn good lawyer and magic could happen.

Forgot to add, check the NORML site for lawyer referrals:

http://norml.org/index.cfm?wtm_view=legal&Group_ID=4544

And join NORML, they are fighting to keep the bullshit from happening.

AND MAKE SURE HE DOESN'T SAY ONE MORE WORD TO THE POLICE UNTIL YOU GUYS HAVE A LAWYER - THEN THE ONLY PERSON WHO NEEDS TO TALK TO THE POLICE AFTER THAT IS YOUR LAWYER!

You sound like a good brother, I know I would probably be sweating a bust of my brother more than my own personal bust. I really hope it works out for you guys.

thank you very much everyone at IC who has chimed in to help, especially mr. P, dr task and stink

I will keep this thread updated on this, I dont believe anyone who did such a small thing should have his future jeapordized.

But say I do get him a good lawyer, and all this gets expunged, is there still no chance since he was caught with the crime? or does fafsa only count if he was convicted?

Ok...now I must chime in.....First....bullshit..

Stop and take a deep breath.....ok. Now for real information.

I am speaking from experience and want to help.

1. If he is not charged with a felony...he should be fine as in most cases it winds up being probation without affecting his record as long as he gets the prosecutor to agree and fulfills his agreement.

2. In cases of felony charges...if it is the only one on his record, 5 years is the max before he can apply for expungement. (not 10)

3. paraphenalia is a misdemeanor.

4. The judge or Public Rat, will tell him when he is eligible for expungement if it is necessary.

5. You can get your record expunged on your own...you just to the legwork yourself.
http://www.publicrecordcenter.com/michigan_public_records_expungements

As I said, I didn't have a good lawyer or anything. I explained my situation with the student loans to my other wise worthless public defender. He told the prosecutor, and they offered me a plea-bargain.

I can't remember the exact name of what they offered me in the plea bargain.... It was called "_____ bond". I can't remember the first word, sorry.
It doesn't go on your record as a criminal charge. I didn't have to plead guilty or not guilty to that charge, I just had to pay it. I think it is the equvilant of a ticket on your record. It does not interfere with student loans and I don't have to admit to having a criminal record on a job application.

This is how my defender, and the judge put it to me. I can not say how it will go for you or your state.

That's just how it went for me:

> I got caught and charged, I'm currently getting federal aid...

> Two days later I went to court, where all I had to do was plead to the charge. I plead not guilty. This was at the recomendation of the cops that arrested me, and a family lawyer (just asked for advice, didn't represent me).

> I was set for a pre-trial hearing a month later. I was put on "pre-trial screening" as well. I had to report to a probation office twice, DRUG TESTED only the first time (wtf????), had to pay them $50 at the end.... Essentially just be good...

> A month later, I went to pre-trial hearing. I sat in the court-room and listened to about 20 other peoples charges, and pleas. Most of them were a lot more serious than mine, lol. Finally my public defender got me, and talked to me outside the court room. This is the plea bargain they offered you, made a comment about this happening all the time, showed it to me. It was the whole "____ bond" thing I explained earlier.

> I accepted it, it was what I wanted which was to not have my federal loans fucked with, so I was happy. The judge called me up, told me the circumstances, etc. I aggreed, went to the court's clerk, where they added up what my "punishment" was.

> I had two months to pay it, I paid it in two weeks, lol. Essentially $450 to the court, $50 to the probation department. Technically your case is not over till you pay it all, so the longer it takes to pay, the longer your on the stupid "pre-trial screening" crap. It seems to me they want to get you out of the system, but get some $$$$$$, while they are at it to me.

> Now I'm telling you my story, but I have my student loans.

This is how it went for me, in my state. I don't know about you, or your state. i would at the very least talk to a lawyer to figure out how you should handle it.

thank you very much for your advice mr. P I'm very glad everything worked out well for you

I can only hope for the same


So I take it the first step here would be just for my brother to plea not guilty? and we'll see where it goes from there?

No I think your first step should be to talk to a lawyer or some one who knows the laws and what to expect in your state!!!

That's just how my experience went, and not in your state. But do you really wanna chance it?

oh i'm waiting for replys from many lawyers to seek the best actions, just that its sunday and no ones working lol

thank you though

Everything is different, state by state.

The very first thing you should do is get an attorney, even before pleaing if possible.

I looked at a MI lawyer's web site, and on it he said the person should say 'I stand mute' when asked for a plea, if he hasn't yet talked to an attourney.

Anyway, I'm not saying to take that particular advise, but I am saying to talk to a criminal defense attorney in your state who specializes in drug offenses.

I get a lawyer for traffic tickets, personally.