The Root Brake

It’s funny how things spiral. Two months ago I’m getting my plan of attack together for the winter, thinking about power and heat management. My trays are separate but in the same room so alternating light cycles will take care of each other. The veg. area, I’ll time my light to be on in the cold of the night. I’m burning fuel for heat and to enrich the whole house, that’s also helping to offset the power usage. The equation is almost balanced. Grow on one side/live on the other. In the freezing nights to come I began thinking about heat for my room. To keep the grow side in check my side HAS to remain quite a bit cooler. I haven’t made all of these power sacrifices just to plug in a space heater. Let’s say I did though, 1500 watts is the norm.

2 600w HPS…....….1200w
1 4” Eco-plus…………..96w
1 6” Vortex………….…130w
Light Rail 5……..not much

The closet is 24" x 84", with two 600w I will be dropping 85 watts/sq.ft.

Looks about right, let's try it:


















Now for genetics: Mandala’s Sadhu, it’s a hardy little indica. I have grown this out twice before under a T-5 just to sex and proof the cuts. These turned into bushes in just a couple of months and I took 80 cuts, could have taken 80 more. All 80 took hold and are being vegged right now. They have worked their way up from the floor under a 400w then repeated the process under a 1K, 1200-1800ppm. They are taking off.

11-08


11-10






11-13




11-15




I am still working out the planting density.


5 totes @ 14” x 20” gives me 1.94 sq. ft. ea. Or 9.7 sq. ft. total
60 cuttings in 9.7 sq. ft. is about 6 per sq.ft. Or 12 per tote
At 12 per tote they get 23.3 sq. in. Or 4.8” x 4.8”
At a depth of 15” each has a volume of almost 1.5 gallons of soil.


Looks like a good start here.

From past experience growing in totes and also from reading here, putting small cuts in large pots does not yield as efficient of root structure as potting up. I have tried to pot-up some plants in flower and the stress stopped them dead in their tracks, a poor way to stop the stretch.

I want high density to avoid a longer veg. time and I do not have 60+ pots of increasing size to properly pot them up. Then, just like Doc Brown and the “flux capacitor”, I had an epiphany: the root brake! I just need some way to stop those roots about half-way down and force them to colonize the middle layer. Then without much stress, release them to the rest of the container. Since I could not find anything specific about a decomposing material, I believed it would have to be removable. At first I was going to run it up the inside of the tote but I knew when I pulled the brake out it would disturb the plants way too much.

I decided to slot the totes 9” down, then I drilled drainage holes and washed the totes.





To make this slot I marked my line then scored the line with a sharp box cutter. The I went back over that score with increasing pressure. Third time I was through. I then took some 80-grit and opened the slot up a bit, not a lot just smoothing the edges really.

I am planting with a mixture of 2:1 FFOF and Botanicare's Aeration formula, it's perlite, coco, earth worm castings, plus beneficial fungus.






Load the first layer







Sliding the brake in. The Brakes run slightly downhill from the slot and is tucked down around the edges also. We don't want water pooling here.







Second layer




I left a good bit hanging out so I could grab hold and pull later




Then I rolled it up and taped it down





Locked and loaded




He just didn't understand why he couldn't "dig" in the dirt too

Woo man looks like you're well on your way

awesome stuff !

This is sick man

I cannot wait to see how this turns out dude, def gonna tag this thread

Is that just a regular trash bag? The only thing I could see being an issue is very aggressive roots getting all wrapped around it. Not sure where you are, but here in Canada we have compostable bags, taht break down in 28 days, (or two days in my organics recycling container, making it a real pain to get the bag full of vegetable cuttings and rotten fridge stuff out.)

Anyways man, huge fan of Mandala as well, looking forward to seeing how this goes

Good luck

Gonna be keeping an eye on the process too. Love Mandala gear. The Sadhu I had was sick!!

looking forward to your grow!

subscribed

sick sick sick....

interesting stuff ! definitely watching this one.

great idea. I'll be watching to see how it turns out. good luck

yeah, you do it.

Looks interesting the planting style. Going to have to take some shots of your root mass after harvest, be interesting to see.

Be easy,
Germ

Great experiment subscribed!

I'm also growing Sadhus (and Kalichakras) love their vigor and ease in growing them AFAIK as long as you nute them on the low side everything goes well...

as you sprouted much more seeds than I did (just 5 Sadhus and 5 Kalichakras, and I have too much crammed into a little mini), I wonder which phenos did you found? which ones did you select? How old were the plants when preflowers appeared?

Thanks for the interest everybody!

I will be planting in the next day or two. The cuts are just growing like crazy, an inch a day under the 1K. I have done the cup-in-a-cup so that I can determine when these are Hard-Rooted and thus ideal for transplant.



I have chosen to do a 3-2 split on the totes and have left two unmolested for comparison sake. When I complete this I will dump the soil and cut the block in half to see if I can find where the roots stratified and to what extent. I am hoping for interesting results. I am also wondering if the braked ones will show any extra vigor when they have access to fresh soil.

When I plant, these cuttings will have 5" of unimpeded vertical space before hitting the brake. I hope this is colonized about 10 - 15 days into flower, then I will pull the brakes and let them run in the last 5" for the rest of their life. I'm expecting little need for nutrients, I have Botanicares PBP line up on hand plus an assortment of foilars and additaves if the need arises.

What do you all think about this timing? As far as I understand it, root growth slows in flower so it think would behoove me to pull it in the first third.

DRDog: The root brake is made out of 6 mil plastic sheeting, so yeah essentially a garbage bag.

Repuk: So far this seems like great strain. I popped all ten and have 3 mothers. They have been growing for about 4 months and are nice bushes. You can see them clustered around their babies in some of the above photos. I do not remember when the pre-flowers appeared but it was before the first time I took cuttings for sex. On the Phenos, Two are very similar, the other one has very unique pistils. They are not as long as normal, are blunt-ended, and a light ivory in color. They then mature to a deep golden color. This is just all around different that what I am seeing in the other two, honestly I haven't seen pistils like this in anything I have grown. I expect after this run to be able to focus in on one as I can not claim much much experience with this strain right now. 2 quickies under a 4x4' T-5

Pandemic said:

When I plant, these cuttings will have 5" of unimpeded vertical space before hitting the brake. I hope this is colonized about 10 - 15 days into flower, then I will pull the brakes and let them run in the last 5" for the rest of their life. I'm expecting little need for nutrients, I have Botanicares PBP line up on hand plus an assortment of foilars and additaves if the need arises.

What do you all think about this timing? As far as I understand it, root growth slows in flower so it think would behoove me to pull it in the first third.

Click to expand...

I was very impressed by Sadhus/Kalichakras rooth growth, though I'm using coco and it promotes root growth a lot. Regarding that timing, I transplanted from the solo cups to 2L square pots (they're 8" tall) and by day 3rd from the transplant, I noticed a huge tap root had emerged from bottom drain holes about 2", impressive I must say. Even assuming root development in soil is slower your figures may fall little short, by day 5th from the transplant I think they'll have reached the brakes...

Repuk: So far this seems like great strain. I popped all ten and have 3 mothers. They have been growing for about 4 months and are nice bushes. You can see them clustered around their babies in some of the above photos. I do not remember when the pre-flowers appeared but it was before the first time I took cuttings for sex. On the Phenos, Two are very similar, the other one has very unique pistils. They are not as long as normal, are blunt-ended, and a light ivory in color. They then mature to a deep golden color. This is just all around different that what I am seeing in the other two, honestly I haven't seen pistils like this in anything I have grown. I expect after this run to be able to focus in on one as I can not claim much much experience with this strain right now. 2 quickies under a 4x4' T-5

Click to expand...

Thanks! I may cut some clones before they show preflowers then... they're outgrowing the little cab for vegging and guess I'll have to move them to the flowering tent someday in this week.

Mine were a month old last 15th, the bigger ones are 8-9" tall, all are similar but for one with a very purple main stem, lankier and taller than the rest.

wow, going from T5 to a 1kW in rails is a definitive improvement!

So, Pan, what yu're saying is that you'll pull the bag out to release more room for roots in the 1st 3rd of flowering? I think you should veg for an extra week, then flip, wait one week then yank that rug out from under her..just my

..and just a quick note to repuk..kalichakra is what "the cellar" is all about...

peace
~cd

cellardweller said:

..and just a quick note to repuk..kalichakra is what "the cellar" is all about...

Click to expand...

I know I read the whole thread... gonna ask a couple things!

I was very impressed by Sadhus/Kalichakras rooth growth, though I'm using coco and it promotes root growth a lot. Regarding that timing, I transplanted from the solo cups to 2L square pots (they're 8" tall) and by day 3rd from the transplant, I noticed a huge tap root had emerged from bottom drain holes about 2", impressive I must say. Even assuming root development in soil is slower your figures may fall little short, by day 5th from the transplant I think they'll have reached the brakes...

Click to expand...

cellardweller So, Pan, what yu're saying is that you'll pull the bag out to release more room for roots in the 1st 3rd of flowering? I think you should veg for an extra week, then flip, wait one week then yank that rug out from under her

Click to expand...

Keep the ideas coming!!!!!! I consider this my first real sadhu grow and I'm still not sure with this strain. I really want to hear ideas on planting density, I have 80. I may pull these brakes at different times just to "know" for the next time. I think I will be planting tomorrow. I do want them a little root bound before I pull the brakes out though.


This is the harvest from the T-5, two ten gallon totes. As soon as these rooted I transplanted directly into the totes.
5 day veg, 65 day flower. I realized a longer veg was needed with Sadhu to get any yield.






The soil was dumped today and again, there were long roots running down from the Rapid Rooters but no mid-level colonization. I feel I am wasting nutrients/soil. I may just go kiddie pools and parabolic reflectors, I am sold on the One Strain - One Pot - Multiple Plants.

This is the back of the house: Wonder Diesel (Williams Wonder x ECSD)
5 day veg - flowered at 4" - 5" and they are just stopping the stretch now at 33" - 36". 7 rows of 7 in a 4x4;
times two.


Wired for 220v

Pandemic said:

Keep the ideas coming!!!!!! I consider this my first real sadhu grow and I'm still not sure with this strain. I really want to hear ideas on planting density, I have 80. I may pull these brakes at different times just to "know" for the next time. I think I will be planting tomorrow. I do want them a little root bound before I pull the brakes out though.

Click to expand...

I'm less experienced than you... only know Sadhus are very efficient at nute uptake and you'd better go easy on them with nutes. I also noticed reppoting should be in time or they stunt, I repotted late, they grew explosively as soon as I repotted.

All of them were in solo cups for 3 weeks, then to 2L pots. After that they tripled/quadrupled their size in just a week...

I had a seedling that had problems sprouting due to tangling roots (my fault, seed too deep) that had growth delayed by a week and a half or so. That one got repotted to a 1L brick when it was the size of a 2week seedling. on its 3d week I repotted from the 1L to a 2L. Roots had developed uniformly, and it has almost reached their sisters in size... so I guess the key is to repot just in time before roots get crammed...

I think 80 plants is too much density for 9,7sq feet. Even if they're straight bats, they'll be very crammed. 9,7sq feet / 80 plants render less than 0.0125sq meters per plant. Right now my mini grow is really crammed (see thread at my sig), but each plant has 0.0169sq/m each, more than your planned plant density.

I think apart from vital space you may run into mould or humidity problems, as it will be difficult to properly vent such a dense forest. But you have more experience than I, just trying to figure things out of my common sense

I know growing in shared pots or beds usually stimulates competition and thus plant growth, but guess there is a point with diminishing returns... mine are seedlings and yours cuts, that may make a difference but I'd left more space for them, 60 plants will mean 0.016sq/m each. 40 plants 0.025sq/m, or about 15x15cm (6x6in) horizontal area per plant. That is still dense but looks like reasonable. That will mean about 3 gallon per plant, that sounds like a good figure to develop good fat colas... according to Mandala Soil guide 10-11L (which falls more on the 3gal than the 2gal stated there) is enough for a 2+ month old plant indoors:

Mandala Soil guide said:

If a product "nourishes plants continously up to 3 months" this tells you that the mix contains adequate NPK levels for indoor cannabis in the first 4-5 weeks of growth using a 4-5 Liter/1 gallon container. Or for indoor cannabis up to 2+ months using 10 Liter/2 gallon container*.

Click to expand...

That sounds to me like good contions to try to reach a gram per watt yield, you're using 1200 watts, and about 1sq meter, that's the triple watt per sq meter Mandala states as condition to reach 1gr/W, and in line with high horizontal density; soil volume per plant is distributed vertically but stays in line with the advised values.

sounds like a very interesting experiment to adapt to vertical spaces

BTW, Soma also grows in beds, though more horizontal than vertical.

The only drawback I can think the totes holding soil more vertically could be the bottom will be more compact due to the soil/plant weight and would get more dense and lacking oxygen.

Soma in fact uses pipes in each bed corner to keep a layer of air at the bottom, between the container and the soil (give his article a read) that maybe an improvement for your setup, with at least two pipes per tote... next time I guess, as your totes are already filled.

Yesterday I transplanted 60 of the best cuttings to the 5 totes. I planted at my planed 12/totes and the cuttings were all about 6" +/- 0.5".

Sorting


12 Looks about right





Making a little divot for the root mass to sit in.



I didn't want to dump my cuts so I snipped just the rim of the plastic cup.



Then peeled it away





Everybody in their seats





Added the back fill





Under the Halide for another day or two

Looking good Pandemic

Mj