Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

I gave my lamp a good 4 hour rest and I had to try to ignite the lamp 3 times this morning before it would light. I think I will shorten my cord from 4' to 3' and see if this helps. I didn't think the voltage drop across only 4' of cord would be that drastic.

Thanks simba for the response. I took ballast apart and there isn't a marking for a x3 wire. I guess I don't understand how this switchable ballast original ignitor has only 2 wires and the new one has 3. How does the 2 wire one work then if there is no x3 coming out of it? The switchable ballast also has 2 caps in it as well.

MPL said:

I gave my lamp a good 4 hour rest and I had to try to ignite the lamp 3 times this morning before it would light. I think I will shorten my cord from 4' to 3' and see if this helps. I didn't think the voltage drop across only 4' of cord would be that drastic.

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My cord is 10 feet long. Odds are you have a hard CMH to light, I RMA'd mine for one that fired right up.

What kind of ballast do you have?

Microwido said:

My cord is 10 feet long. Odds are you have a hard CMH to light, I RMA'd mine for one that fired right up.

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Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.

The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!

Good luck and keep after it.

Three feet? Wow, good find.

I got my Venture ballast here http://www.businesslights.com/hps-ballast-kits-c-190.html

I've got the 250 bulb and it's at least 10 feet away from the ignitor with no firing problems. I'm using 16 gauge. Am I asking for danger? It's a pain but, I could rewire it with a shorter length.

Not danger just a no fire when and or if your ignitor starts to go.

Azeotrope said:

Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.

The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!

Good luck and keep after it.

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bro, this should be the first post seriously, well written easy to understand, i have one question on ballasts.

I just bought a sunlight supply 400w ballast, i showed a pic of it earlier in this thread. Should it strike the bulbs no problem, in other words is it a good quality ballast? I am impressed with the wiring of the internals and looks of great quality but looks are not everything. The reason i am asking is i can get a enhanced spectrum hps bulb for 50, and if the cmh wont strike as well because my ballast is shit then i would rather avoid it even though in my eyes the cmh are the best bulbs to use. So is this ballast crap or good for cmh in your opinion?
And please pm me your supplier if you can, thats a great deal id love to have a spare bulb. Thanks for everything man

http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/commercial/pdfs/hid_lamps/advance_2003a.pdf

An excellent resource for us all. Please check the chart on page 33.

Peace

Will ten feet plus cause the ignitor to fail earlier? It would be an ultra-major-uber pain but, I could get down to 3 feet for the right reason.

Yes it can shorten the ignitor life span. I can order the long range ignitors for myself wholesale, but have yet to find a source on the internet for ya'll. Maybe the folks at Simba's place could order them for you.

Thanks, Az. Not looking forward to more drilling through double steel walls but, I didn't switch over to use the equipment incorrectly. Thanks, again.

Great post! This definitely needs to be placed at the beginning of the thread, and I am doing so now.

I guess my problems are due to my ballast, but I am poor so have no choice but to try to deal with it as best I can. If I'm getting a 25%-50% firing rate on my CMH with a 4' cord I guess if I shorten it it will go up.

Azeotrope said:

Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.

The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!

Good luck and keep after it.

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I updated the first post of the thread.

When time allows I am going to go through and find all the FAQs etc. and put it in the first post as well.

If anyone wants to help with this project, feel free to quote what you think is important and I'll place it in the first post.

i should have no problems with this using a cmh right?


i just want to be sure before ordering a bulb, can anyone answer?

For whatever troubles the HTG ballasts are causing, I have to say their instructions are the simplest, clearest I've seen. Unfortunately they're huge honking PDFs. I'd be tempted to resize them for posting here but wouldn't want to expose IC to copyright infringement.

Anyway, they can be found here http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=45693

Poker_Toker said:

i should have no problems with this using a cmh right?

i just want to be sure before ordering a bulb, can anyone answer?

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It's an S51, a standard 400 watt hps ballast. You're good to go.

FreezerBoy said:

It's an S51, a standard 400 watt hps ballast. You're good to go.

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thx bro, i tried giving some rep but must spread around more lol

i am happy now because i got that ballast for 60 shipped with sunlight cord and socket. CMH is the future it seems, the charts dont lie and plants love the mixed spectrum from blues to reds

here's what azero had to say in a PM i sent him, we both agreed it should be added to this thread...

Vin -

The standard HPS bulbs are actually quite easy for regular ignitor design to fire. Even at extended distances (wire length between ballast and socket). They are designed however, with a listed/recomended limit of 3feet from ignitor to socket. This being the case we are almost all outside of that design limit. The CMH bulbs take a real good kick. They are designed for operation in a light fixture where the set-up is within ignitor design limits. Now when we use them it is important to have very high quality ignitors, shortest possible wire/cable length and good quality connections. Some folks are using switchable ballasts that run the ignitor circuit through a switch which has contacts that can be suspect, some are running really long wire/cable runs, some have cable runs on too small of a wire gauge.

Now I have a leg up on this stuff. Without giving too much away, I will tell you that I am an administrator level electrician, mechanical/HVAC/industrial refrigeration field engineer. So I go and buy a new Sylvania, Advance, Howard, Sola or other HPS ballast kit (core, coil,ignitor,capacitor) every 2-3years at wholesale and can actually obtain 15' rated ignitors. I don't spend the extra for the uprated ignitors but, I use 14gauge 600v rated cable and 5kv pulse rated conections and never go over 6-8' of wire.

Some of the off the shelf stuff in the hydro shops is questionable. My buddy that owns a shop tried to sell me some new (less expensive ballast) at cost so I would test it for him. It is supposed to run cooler and be lighter......Sorry, some made in China cost efficient high copper coil design.

I have only had one of these bulbs fail after 2-3yrs of vertical use I ran it another 18months horiz and it finally died. I just picked up 2 more 400w horiz at the supply house today for a grand total of $79.00 US. As I keep typing, I wonder if maybe this PM should be coppied to the thread to help folks out? I am not that "savvy" with that sort of thing and it would of course need to be O.K. with you. If you feel the urge to do so, you have my blessing.

Peace and have fun growing! Azeotrope

so is it the general consensus that the HTG ballast are going to have problems firing up these CMH bulbs?? what ballast do you recommend azo that come with all the standard features that you recommend?