PLL Club. (if you don't know, now you know)

These new LED's look pretty freakin' awesome. Just wish they'd get affordable quicker. Good luck and happy growing.

That's the cool thing about this. It's a lot like home brewing beer. Even when ya don't have everything just perfect, there is still a happy result for the most part, and at worst we learn a little and try again.

Hydro-Soil said:

Word of Caution


Just want to make sure that nobody missed the safety warnings that should be included with these lamps.

DO NOT expose your eyes to the light from these lamps when you're close up. Avoid spending a lot of time where your head is within a foot and a half of these lamps where you can catch reflections. These lamps are INTENSE and even though it doesn't seem to bother you at first, there is subtle damage being done to your eyes that takes time to build up.

Just like in an HID garden, it's best to have lower wattage CFL's or incandescents to use when you need to be in the garden for more than a minute or two. UV-B protective lens shades are also a great item to have on hand.

Stay Safe Everyone!

p.s. I just don't want to hear about 2,500 growers having cataracts or other eye issues in about 10 years.... because someone on the internet suggested PL-L without a warning.

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Thanks dude, saved my arse

That would be like some kind of weird Karma of the damned thing wouldn't it. Living in a State where you can go to jail for weed, unless ya have a medical condition, so ya grow weed and acquire the medical condition as a consequence, but at least now you're legal...just blind.
I can't fly 'cuz I know I'm gonna die. It would be crazy to fly, But realizing that it's crazy to fly again means that I'm not crazy...and so I'd still have to fly 'cuz the only way that you can get out of it is to be crazy...
"They call me Yosarian"

cosmik debris said:

That would be like some kind of weird Karma of the damned thing wouldn't it. Living in a State where you can go to jail for weed, unless ya have a medical condition, so ya grow weed and acquire the medical condition as a consequence, but at least now you're legal...just blind.
I can't fly 'cuz I know I'm gonna die. It would be crazy to fly, But realizing that it's crazy to fly again means that I'm not crazy...and so I'd still have to fly 'cuz the only way that you can get out of it is to be crazy...
"They call me Yosarian"

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LOL, what are you smoking dude? Please tell us, I want some...

C'mon man...haven't you read "Catch 22"?
Sorry to make such an esoteric reference...geeze, that used to be like "Catcher in the Rye", every kid had to read it. Those along with "Brave New World" and "Atlas Shrugged" were like a required rite of passage.
I s'pose I've lived too long...what's replaced it is probably a smokin' score in 'Call of Duty' or a 32nd level elf lord or some shit in 'World of Warcraft'.

As to what I smoke or don't smoke...that would be crazy 'cuz I live in a place where they still put ya in jail for that shit. Of course ta live here ya have to smoke to put up with the bullshit...or you'll go crazy...

No, I didn't read that one, that's what I get for cheating in school...

I've read all of those books, I must be old. LOL

I wanna see some more pll grows! Lots of info, little evidence!

Every student in my school had to read Go Ask Alice in year 8 (like 12 or 13 yrs old) which I thought was strange. Then in senior year, our class had to vote on what the class should read - it was between Pygmalion and 1984. Pygmalion won. What a load of shit that was.

Lorien said:

I wanna see some more pll grows! Lots of info, little evidence!

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Look in the microgrowers section you will find 1 or 2

Great club! I've learned a ton from this thread. I have a quick question. I'm finally back to be able to grow after a brief stint about a year ago and now designing a cab. Pl-ls are the direction I want to go, and I'm just about ready to buy/order everything I need. I want to make sure I understand my ballast needs correctly first though. A workhorse 5 will run 3x36 pl-ls right? I know the 108 wattage will be fine on the ballast since its max is 128, but I'm not sure if there are any other things to consider. The fulham website recommended a workhorse 7 for my needs, but I'm always suspicious of a money grab. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

It would be best to use higher watt bulbs, 50 or 55 watts is preferable. The workhorse 7 is a great ballast as it can run 4x50w bulbs for a total 200w@16,000 lumens for under a $100 with bulbs, ballast, sockets, wire and shipping.


short comparison of the best options:

WH5- 2x55w
WH7- 3x55w or 4x50w

55w bulb = ~4,800lm
50w bulb = ~4,000lm

Check Sarges earlier post on ballast factors. It's a significant issue. Fulhams, using their suggested lamps, will at best only produce 87% of the correct lamps output, not 4,000 or 4,800 lumens. Under driving the lamps will light them, but you won't end up anywhere near what you think, and the spectrum produced is not the same.

A pair of more expensive ballasts that are matched to the lamps can produce up to 104% of the lumen output while running cooler and using 10% less juice. If you want the best output for the least, spend an extra 30-50 bucks and get a pair of Advance or G.E.'s with the 20,000 hr. lamps. Their programmed ballasts will also give you the rated lamp life, whereas the Fulhams' instant start will wear them out at least 25% faster.

I realize that a lot of folks here are using the Fulhams and they definitely get results. The point is that for a few dollars more you can get even better, and the cost difference going in is insignificant relative to what a single grow should produce. From there on out it's just bonus.

Thousandth post

Thousandth post

cosmik debris said:

Fulhams, using their suggested lamps, will at best only produce 87% of the correct lamps output, not 4,000 or 4,800 lumens.

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I was talking about the approx. lumen output of 50 and 55 watt bulbs, not the output using fulham ballast.

You are very right though, a similar comparison can be made between different HID ballast. For instance, a magnetic versus digital. I think the popularity of workhorse ballast comes from the price point and the amount of documentation on this site.

TheGreenBastard:
From looking at grow journals and reading bulb specs I realize the 55w bulbs are superior, but for the cab I have in mind their length leaves them unusable. My cab's footprint is pretty strange. As far as the 3x36w pl-ls on a workhorse 5, is that alright? It might not be ideal but my cab is the primary constraint here.

cosmic debris:
I'm definitely going to look into Advance and G.E. ballasts. Also, thanks for pointing me toward Sarge's post. A thread this long can get kinda confusing.

You say tomato...

You say tomato...

It's pretty obvious that a lot of people are successful growing a lot of great weed under less than perfect circumstances. The issue of how to best fire my lamps seems may be easy for me 'cuz I'm an OCD type with a little money left at the end of the month. When I was a broke ass student, I was happy eatin' PB&J 7 days a week so that I could afford a six pack on Friday. It's all relative. If you're price sensitive and don't mind the output differences, the Fulhams are great, well built ballasts that will perform for years. I have a couple of old T-8 and T-10 fixtures that I converted to T-5's with Race Horse ballasts before I read Sarge's post, so it's not like I don't have and use them myself.

I've started playing around with trying to optimize a cabinet for CO2 enrichment, so the extra light, whether it be 15% or 40% is a little more important to me possibly, and my pain tolerance for the cost isn't that critical. I can't find the post right now but there's a really cool thread about a single plant, PLL lit, garbage can sized tube that a dude did a really great job with, where he was growing these killer nugz in dirt. A lot of folks were offerin' critiques and suggestions to improve it, and that was cool, but the fact that he was using either 4100K or 4500K lamps (short and long term mem going, going, gone) for the entire veg/flower cycle - just had some fuckers comin' unglued. It worked great for him and his whole priority was to KISS. Same w/ Doc Bud's old micro/CFL threads. Could it be improved upon? Sure, what couldn't be? But to each his own. (the garbage can tube was called an i-... somethin', a little Apple device play on words that's drivin' me crazy now 'cuz I've forgotten it - but it's cool as shit).

Look, was Bush a fucking douche bag? Sure he was! Then we elected Yobo and...alright , well maybe that wasn't such a good analogy.

I suppose a more reasonable way of looking at it would be like brewing your own beer. You can make a nice batch of quality suds on your stove top with a couple of pots and pans, or you can spend thousands buying and building your own little automated micro-brewery. In the end it's all beer, and even when you fuck up, it's all good. Relax, fire up a bowl and pass me a home brew.

That's one of the coolest things about this site. You read around and take bits and pieces from everything you learn and adapt it to what works for you or what makes sense for your situation. You've got an unusual size issue to cope with. Some folks have a whole warehouse to work with. As long as we keep learnin' and growin' it all works out in the end.

cosmik debris said:

I can't find the post right now but there's a really cool thread about a single plant, PLL lit, garbage can sized tube that a dude did a really great job with, where he was growing these killer nugz in dirt. A lot of folks were offerin' critiques and suggestions to improve it, and that was cool, but the fact that he was using either 4100K or 4500K lamps (short and long term mem going, going, gone) for the entire veg/flower cycle - just had some fuckers comin' unglued.

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“Going .. Going .. GONE” Club. Got a catchy ring to it. What’s on auction?

Oh, wait. I remember. Let me be of help there cosmik codger.

Sounds like you are talking about inefectulize’s “High-Pod“. It’s the info that got me to finally join this fine board. Well worth the review for anyone, IMO.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=92259

6 x 4100k / 55w PL-L in a large trash can. Impressive presentation. Can’t argue with success.

You da man. Wha'...do you take notes or sumthin'?

Show off!

That was/is a badass thread. Had me dreamin' of a 1,760 watt specular aluminum ICBM silo, with Jack's bean stalk starting in my basement and runnin' straight through to the roof.

"But your Honor...it was just one plant..."

Notes? Do bkmks count? It’s at the top in a place of honor.

5.7 z dry out of 330w PL-L in a 24 inch can, 32 inches tall. Got my attention.

Silo eh? With a native jungle Thai strain, no doubt. 16 feet tall and 3 feet around.

I got to looking at those sky light tubes for reflectivity. If I only had a real R&D budget. Now I’m back down to earth and sketching up a bee hive type of affair, where several sections of components stack.

The L type CFL has certainly opened new areas of design capability.

City Twin said:

“Going .. Going .. GONE” Club. Got a catchy ring to it. What’s on auction?

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What's left of my brain...what was the question?

City Twin said:

Oh, wait. I remember. Let me be of help there cosmik codger.

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Cosmik Codger...I like it. May have to change my handle.

City Twin said:

Notes? Do bkmks count? It’s at the top in a place of honor.

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I've got so many here now that I can't keep'em all straight. IC's like my Weedopedia Britannica.

City Twin said:

Silo eh? With a native jungle Thai strain, no doubt. 16 feet tall and 3 feet around.

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You obviously share my mental illness.

City Twin said:

I got to looking at those sky light tubes for reflectivity. If I only had a real R&D budget. Now I’m back down to earth and sketching up a bee hive type of affair, where several sections of components stack.

The L type CFL has certainly opened new areas of design capability.

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I've hunted down a source for that metal, and it ain't cheap. Those sky light tubes are the same shit that you see in the better light reflectors. Again, somebody on these boards threw me the bone on the tubes you mentioned as a place to start lookin'. They have bigger ones available as well (up to 10' long), but the prices are insane. The wholesale supplier is better, by the time you pay for set up, cut charges, shipping and the lot it works out to about $180-200 for a 4'x8' sheet. It's great stuff though.

It actually has silver embedded into the metal, and the finish can be bent and cut without bunching, wrinkling or de-laminating. Won't support a flame (try that with Mylar), and reflects up to 98% while not spreading the DNA damaging UV around. It also reflects light back at the same angle that the light strikes it so with the right design (tube, parabola, etc.) you can eliminate hot spots and dark zones. The higher reflectivity makes an even bigger difference when reflected light re-strikes it, so a difference of say 15% between this and paint is actually exponentially more.

Good luck with your modular idea...sounds interesting. Lego blocks for the weedy amongst us.

I just ordered some more/different CFL's to play with for smaller areas like my mom compartment and over the clones. Wanna check out some flat quad fingered, D-shaped, and double circline lamps for areas where I can't fit the Biax tubes.

Anti's micro cab ideas first turned me onto these PLL's and I can't thank him enough.
The bitch is finding the right ballasts and color temps. 1000bulbs is good, but they ain't got it all.