Coco Tree's

DJM · Jan 29, 2015

Marlo said:
Very very nice grow. Your plants obviously love what you are doing.
I must say..... those are some of the most amazing root pics I have ever seen. Cloning is my kryptonite. Tried at least 4 methods in the past 4 months. You've got to be some type of 'root whisperer' or some shit, lol. Hopefully I can learn a lil somethin somethin.

Thanks for posting

thanks man. nice to see you pop in, the wire is my shit..i get that a lot about rooting...I have tried literally every technique and medium under the sun over the last 13 years...im ocd when it comes to figuring things out , so my technique evolved from lots of trial and error and experimentation..its no whispering, there are just certain crucial elements that need to be dialed in, do that and all youre roots will look like that...I have roots like that in 10 days like clockwork , ready to transplant and rarely loose a clone..last time I rooted 180 and lost one because I closed the dome on it and snapped it...by day 7 they are usually poking out but I wean them off the high rh environment for 3 days prior to transplant

im not one to hoard trade secrets like some ego maniac growers out there..what I know I share, so my tech is like this

- big cuts, over 6 inches long from healthy moms

- tips cut back 30%, 50% on large fans

- soak cuts in phd tap water over night to assure they are well hydrated

- soak 2 inch rockwool plugs in 350ppms worth of base nutes and a ph of 5.7 for 30 minutes

- flush sheets with a fresh solution of the same strength and ph

- shake about 20-30% of water out of plugs, do not squeeze them, but swing them like pitching a baseball

- dip in clonex and put in plug, not using the premade hole, but right off to the side of it (premade holes alow to much oxygen in)

- put 10 cuts per dome, never more, overcrowding is a nono with clones and will lead to rot, long root times and inconsistent temps and rh) I take big cuts, if you take small ones you can fit more, but you don't want them touching leaves

- put them under t5, kept 3 feet away, too much light slows rooting and stresses plants, they want defused lighting as they cant absorb bright light without roots

- keep temps IN the dome between 78-80...I use a temp gun to dial in the temps for the first day or two..the proximity to the light, the strength of light, heat in the room all play a factor in the temp in the dome, so one needs to dial that in until it sits at 80..in cold places get a heat mat with digital thermostat, put the sensor for the thermostat in an empty plug in the dome and set the mat to 76, that usually puts it around 80 in the dome..but again , many variable effect that

- I spray the inside of the dome only, never the plants, and keep the dome beaded until day 6 or 7 when I see roots...at that time I open vents slowly over the course of 3 days and by day 10 and are ready to transplant

- I never water plugs after the initial soak, you want them moist but not wet or dry

that's about it...the moisture level in the plug, presoak overnight, nutes in the soak water and keeping temps around 80 are the 4 crucial elements...dial those 4 in and you will never have issues with cloning again

hope that helps

DJM · Jan 29, 2015

dutchmasters420 said:
Hey man we are attempting the same thing now. Got a few girls in 50/50 coco perlite rootbound in 5 gal mesh pots. So far so good never letting the medium dry out and getting run off each wAtering.

Just wondering how you run your bloom booster, do you just add it on top of your base to get your desired ppm?

Oh and amazing grow, inspiring stuff.

thanks man..glad to see it works for you, im seeing the same in the coco/perlite mix I have going now

yes, I add it on top of my base, less than 100ppms worth, 50-75ppms mostly...that's for the booster, then I use a bulker or finisher (MOAB) for two weeks ontop of the booster, with base nutes cut in half, then flush for 2 weeks...however im constantly tweaking and changing my regimen so if you ask in 6 months chances are it wont be the same

DJM · Jan 29, 2015

dissolute said:
yeah basically just tell us all about your cloning technique and environment. nutritional needs are connected with how much the plant needs to cool itself. i'm wondering what kind of VPD you run at various times, and whether you are hanging onto veg nutes through stretch, and would be grateful if you'd share. very very inspiring roots.

thanks man..cloning tech posted above...im a firm believer in VPD, its a game changer in any room..i wont try to convince people on it, so please no one come in and try to tell me im crazy, as I assure you this is not my first rodeo...I run 84f and 75% rh through the whole grow, 70f- 74f and 65-70% at night...its hot and wet..glasses fog up when you enter...only the last week of flush will I drop it to 75f and 65rh ...during veg I run it even higher around 86-88 and 80%rh

I don't hold onto veg nutes through stretch unless Im either running a haze that stretches 3x + or im running 6/9...unless its a very stretchy cut, it can hurt yield

hope that helps

Mrrite008 · Jan 30, 2015

DJM said:
thanks man..cloning tech posted above...im a firm believer in VPD, its a game changer in any room..i wont try to convince people on it, so please no one come in and try to tell me im crazy, as I assure you this is not my first rodeo...I run 84f and 75% rh through the whole grow, 70f- 74f and 65-70% at night...its hot and wet..glasses fog up when you enter...only the last week of flush will I drop it to 75f and 65rh ...during veg I run it even higher around 86-88 and 80%rh

I don't hold onto veg nutes through stretch unless Im either running a haze that stretches 3x + or im running 6/9...unless its a very stretchy cut, it can hurt yield

hope that helps

Great info...at what CO2 level to you supplement your rooms with?

Marlo · Jan 30, 2015

Thanks for detailing your cloning routine. Yours would be a method to copy if I ever saw one.

Mrrite008 · Jan 30, 2015

DJM said:
thanks man..cloning tech posted above...im a firm believer in VPD, its a game changer in any room..i wont try to convince people on it, so please no one come in and try to tell me im crazy, as I assure you this is not my first rodeo...I run 84f and 75% rh through the whole grow, 70f- 74f and 65-70% at night...its hot and wet..glasses fog up when you enter...only the last week of flush will I drop it to 75f and 65rh ...during veg I run it even higher around 86-88 and 80%rh

I don't hold onto veg nutes through stretch unless Im either running a haze that stretches 3x + or im running 6/9...unless its a very stretchy cut, it can hurt yield

hope that helps

Do you have a picture of your fogger setup to maintain those RH levels?

Treetroit City · Jan 30, 2015

Mrrite008 said:
Do you have a picture of your fogger setup to maintain those RH levels?

Curious if a fogger is even needed. In my room if I turn off the dehuey I'm at those levels in an hour...

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

Mrrite008 said:
Do you have a picture of your fogger setup to maintain those RH levels?

I don't use a fogger, nor a dehumidifier. I use the mass of vegetation in the room to create the humidity. I also don't run ac. 1 - 10 inch can fan is hooked to the ducting between the lights with slits every 2 feet and I pull in outside air to cool the room.in summer I use 3 fans instead of 1 and run my lights at night. The room is sealed but I have an exhaust fan for night time or if rh goes above 75 during lights on , which it never does . I'm in Colorado and it's very dry out here, so bringing in the outside air dries the room out during lights on and the exhaust does the same during lights out . And even in summer night temps are in the 50s. I have a controller with intake , exhaust fans , heater and co2 burner hooked to it. I have the settings tweaked to meet the levels I aim for. I try to use the elements outside and inside to work for me and keep operating costs down

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

Third - yup, hit it on the head. It would be silly to have a dehuey and a fogger when using niether gives the desired effect

wouldn't work if I lived somewhere humid though

Treetroit City · Jan 30, 2015

Any watering necessary at dark or do your pots maintain good moisture during lights out?

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

Third , yeah they are good at lights out. I water last 30 min before lights go out and that keeps them moist till lights on. Took a lot of tweaking to dial in watering and environment. They all play against eachother . It's a balancing act , but works for me, thank god for controllers

Webster10 · Jan 30, 2015

How are you not getting mold running that high of an RH?

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

Webster10 said:
How are you not getting mold running that high of an RH?

Mold is a product of not enough "wind" in the room, not a product of high rh. I challenge anyone to prove me otherwise . As I've literally never had budrot or mold indoors in over 10 years. My room feels like a tropical storm though. Every single branch dances In the breeze. If they didn't, they would rot, but that would be because of stagnant air , not high rh. A lot of miss information about high rh and temps going around from people without first hand info or badly designed rooms with bad experiences. Who think 75f and 50% is ideal, which its far from unless the lights are out and even then it's still too dry. And if you run co2 at those temps you might as well burn you're money, as it will make no difference. Like I said I'm not going to convince any one . They can stick to what everyone thinks is ideal. But I trust my plants and eyes, not hearsay from growers who never step outside of the box of what others do and experiment

And another reason people are scared of high rh is pm. But pm is systematic and lives in the plant , so if you have pm living in the plant and it pops up, the issue is not rh but you having to rid your plants of pm altogether

Hope that clears it up. Everything has variables to it

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

As it is you don't want to dry or cure flowers any lower than 62% so running a room lower than that at 50 is going to effect Youre product negatively . I've done the side by sides to see that myself. I never go lower than 65 and dry in 65, cure down to 62 for storage

Unclecrash · Jan 30, 2015

DJM said:
thanks man..no, im not a fan of drip clean..i used it before but don't dig it..im ocd when it comes to monitoring and testing ingoing water and run off..that has gave me a very confident understanding of how to counter act salt build up in my medium..imo DC is just a bandage for improper feeding, watering techniques and monitoring .. there is no substitute for understanding your medium, what goes it and what comes out

yeah it may sound crazy that feeding 6 times a day will create no salt build up ...seems counter intuitive ,but ill explain why that is the case...when water travels through the medium, its contained in its vessel of water..as that water dries within the medium, the salt looses its vessel of water and becomes trapped in the medium, leading to salt build up...allowing the medium to try out even slighty, creates spikes of ec/ppm in the medium...keeping the medium moist at all times does not...the first grow I posted, I feed the same amount of water to each plant, except I did 3-4 times a day..with this the medium did dry out slighty, making salt build up an issue and run off necessary...however when bumping the feedings up to 6x a day, the medium is always wet and salt build up is not an issue as the nutrients are always contained it that vessel of water...ive been monitoring the run off every 3 weeks, pouring extra feed through one of the pots to give me just enough run off to test..after week 5 of feeding 6x a day, my runoff tested at 925ppms, when it had never seen higher than 850ppms..last week the reading was 928..so only 75ppms of build up after 42 days of flower and a 3 week pre veg...that amount is a non issue...I aim to keep run off under 1000ppms in any medium or scenario..by flush im expecting it to be in the high 900s

its all about keeping the medium wet...when I grew in wool I used wet and dry cycles and only fed at 700ppms..salt build up would spike during each dry cycle and rise as much as 300ppms per week..i gave plain phd water every 4th feed to counter act that spike..feed strength, run off, water to air ratio in the medium all play crucial parts in a stable medium and the presence of salt build up..i wouldn't feed at 850 ppms if I was letting my medium dry, in that scenario id max out at 700 like I use to...its a delicate dance playing all the elements against eachother...people cant feed high successfully in coco because they are letting the medium dry out.. a lot of hearsay around the subject, some say dry it , some say don't.. I trust my eyes and meters...and imo if you are not feeding coco atleast 4 times a day, you are not unlocking the true capablitites in coco..the more you feed the wetter the medium..wetter the medium the higher you can feed and more nutrients they can absorb, leading to faster growth and a much more stable medium,,,ive tried water every other day, everyday, twice a day, 3, 4, 5, 6...the more I feed, the better results..so much so that i may go up to one feed every hour next run

with that said, multifeeds only work with A. an undersized rootbound pot and B. a thriving and thick root mass...if you throw and under developed root system in too big of a pot and try it , its a recipe for disaster...roots need dry cycles to thrive and expand...once root bound is when you want to start multifeeding...during early veg I use a wet and dry cycle and only start muti feeds in the final container...I do this to encourage dense roots mass as the dry cycle make the roots branch out in search of water...keeping them wet early on will not and will retard root growth ..once in final containers I start 2x a day and bump up as necessary to keep the medium wet...by flip im running 6x a day...this is with pure coco..if cut with enough perlite, once could multifeed from the jump with similar results

a lot more than what you asked but wanting to address the subject and variables for others interested..hope that helps some people out there get a better understanding of their medium and the elements that effect its stability

^^^^^ ^^^^
By far the best post I have read on Coco, it all makes sense and wondering what you are using to get the bomb explosive root's ?? I was using hydrogaurd and I see good roots but yours are crazy. My Mothers are root bound in 3 gal pots and Healthy cant wait to get a drip system going for my plants.

Weeded1s · Jan 30, 2015

Curing stopping at 62 rh is complete bs..if anyone can please give scientific reference to verify this...im ill eye balls.
Also as i always say. to each their own... but im still not running 70 rh in flower...no way no how.
just how i roll.
ex: 1 fan dies for 24 hrs and theirs gonna be major major issues.. and in flowering i totally disagree with this high of a humidity...even with the vpd chart. I dont grow leaves .. i dont want bud rot inside my 1/2 oz nuggs..been their done that..lots of air circulation and it still happened.
Pm is everywhere waiting for the chance to spore up and bud rot happens from excess rh....out door plants in windy rainy weather still get bud rot right?
its obviously workin for ya ..and im by no means knocking u or your style.. it just seems xtra risky for what potentially could ruin a whole crop.

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

lol love how kids with little tent grows try to give opinions on commercially growing in large rooms. Laughing too hard to even respond to that. Now I remember why I don't post on ic, every swinging dick with a tent and a 600 watter thinks their a guru , trying to teach you how to grow. This ain't my first rodeo. I'm taking time out of my day to come here amd spread knowledge , not argue with kids about what I know to be fact. So either come with good vibes and a constructive comment or stay out of my thread , and keep you're inexperienced opinions to yourself

FlowerFarmer · Jan 30, 2015

I think your yields speak for themselves.

High RH while keeping rot at bay with proper air circulation is the key to larger yields. There is just too much evidence on the web to suggest otherwise...if you look for it as opposed to following the mantra that low RH is a mandatory. Heath, Krusty, DJM... pretty sure they all crush it while contributing higher RH as a good part of the reasons why.

Cannabis is essentially a tropical plant, derived from the cannabis plant (cannabis sativa). It grows wild in many of the tropical and temperate areas of the world.

Keep up the good work DJM. Straight killing it and keeping it barebones simple in the process.

DJM · Jan 30, 2015

Unclecrash said:
^^^^^ ^^^^
By far the best post I have read on Coco, it all makes sense and wondering what you are using to get the bomb explosive root's ?? I was using hydrogaurd and I see good roots but yours are crazy. My Mothers are root bound in 3 gal pots and Healthy cant wait to get a drip system going for my plants.

Thank you. Glad it was insightful. Honestly I use no special root additive. Or teas. Just base nutes and love. The roots are largely due to the environment they are in, as that plays a much larger role in the health and abundance of the root system than any additive can give you. And the health of the root system translates directly to the health of the plant. Sadly, environment is the element people experiment the least with, when it's the one that makes the biggest difference. Take two plants, put one in a dialed vpd environment, put the other in a regular cool dry room. The difference will be day and night , below the surface of the medium and above

Hope that helps

Unclecrash · Jan 30, 2015

DJM said:
Thank you. Glad it was insightful. Honestly I use no special root additive. Or teas. Just base nutes and love. The roots are largely due to the environment they are in, as that plays a much larger role in the health and abundance of the root system than any additive can give you. And the health of the root system translates directly to the health of the plant. Sadly, environment is the element people experiment the least with, when it's the one that makes the biggest difference. Take two plants, put one in a dialed vpd environment, put the other in a regular cool dry room. The difference will be day and night , below the surface of the medium and above

Hope that helps

Thank's man, Im subbed , as of now I only use a few thing's the two nute bottle's some cal mag , coco. Im a Nube and trying to keep it as simple as I can with the little I have to work with. I will be trying to use your method's in my grow's. Im running a good fan with lots of flow through my room. Im slowly putting my room together. I could just get my Bro and say what do I need to do to grow the Tree's like he doe's but to me that is no fun. I like to experment and figure it out my self. And read and learn and use idea's that have worked for other's. Year's ago I used Rockwool cubes and was so green I messed everything up but did get a few clone's to root in rockwool, but then quit all together. I have been successful in cloning in coco and a home made cloner, and I need to go back and give the rockwool a honest try. Thank's UC

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