Creating a seedline from my favourite sative - ZamalHaze

Hi guys, thanks for stopping by, great to discuss things with folks. The two BB x ZamalHaze ladies are doing well, have had to do a second round of supercropping, bending and tying. They have some massive growth potential and have really grwon fast over the first 4 weeks of flowering. I will take some pics when the lights come on later. i started 10 more seeds in small pots of coco and have put them directly into 12/12 as I am just looking for a Zamal leaning male with no intersex trait.

The Zamal pheno BlueBerry x Zamal Haze is looking really nice. You can see some Blueberry traits in her, mostly in some of the leaves, and she has inherited the purple petiole trait from the BB too, but she has a lot of Zamal influence to my eyes. Only just over 4 weeks into 12/12 and resin is already forming, she is flowering much faster than the pure ZH does, so hopefully the cross to the Blueberry has cut a few weeks off the 16 week flowering time of the Zamal Haze.













She has been trained and supercropped into a fat canopy and is only 2 feet tall, without the training she would have hit 5 feet easily, stretch is reduced from the pure ZH but is still at least 3x, more like 4x.

Some bud shots:

The Zamal Haze mother is still growing vigourously under 24/0 hours of fluoro light, but seems to be flowering now, pistils everywhere and single-bladed leaves. I trimmed her rootball by 50% a few weeks back, now I'm wondering whether to give her another root trim and hope she will carry on, or just to repot her in a bigger pot and let her flower.

Zamal pictures

Zamal pictures

Great thread British, lets see if I manage to ad a few pictures.

This is a Zamal that I refer to as type-A and have also nicknamed "cannabis asparagus" a few years back when I showed it at the HTCC expo (2003 I think).

This one was grown in a hanging basket and flowered outdoors under natural light cycle (in Holland).

Looks like that went well so here are some more.

Open field

Open field

This is the same plant grown in "open field", this one will not finish but it's still fun to look at.


















Gerrit

Hi Gerrit, many thanks for joining our little Zamal discussion, lovely plants, shame they will not finish outdoros in Holland. I'm at 53N so no chance for Zamal outdoors for me either, perhaps I could force flower a Zamal beginning in May and harvesting mid October, but that would require a garden and a shed, things I don't have right now.

The hangign basket experiment looks to have worked very well, does the smallish pot help them to finish earlier? The ZamalHaze I have seems sensitive to rootbinding and will flower if rootbound in a smallish pot. I would love to be able to put some Zamal clones outside in small, say 5 litre pots in May and see if they would rootbind and begin flowering early.

I have some pure Zamal seeds and the Zamal x Warlock to play with, so the Zamal adventures will continue! I am not sure, but I believe there were three Zamal types passed around as clones - A, B and C, I know the DNA genetics guys made some crosses with a Zamal clone, and Female Seeds got their Zamal as a clone. Again, I'm not sure, but i think Female Seeds used a Zamal 'B' clone. Certainly, your Zamal 'A' has quite different bud formation but similar leaf form and branching to my Zamal Haze. I have seen pictures of Zamal type plants on La Reunion that resemble your plants.

Some random pics of Zamal I found over the years;





















I also have some Nigerian Nightmare seeds and those are very light sensitive and will remain in veg if kept under 24/0 of fluoros, but if then switched to less than 20 or so will begin flowering, which is very handy for outdoor growers as you can veg them indoors for a month or two then put them outside and they will begin flowering right away. They only take 7-9 weeks to flower, depending on pheno. I plant to some day cross the Nigerian to the Zamal, and perhaps I can find individuals that retain the Zamal high but also have the photo sensitivity of the Nigerian, meaning I can put clones outside that will immediately start flowering and 4-5 months later will produce Zamal-like buds. It's a dream, but I will have much fun and learn a lot trying to make that dream come true.

The two remaining Blueberry x ZamalHaze ladies are now at 40 days of 12/12, and the Zamal pheno looks really good, she has the Zamal-like leaves and the buds look similar, but they are much more dense, a good deal larger and she is flowering much faster, at 40 days of 12/12 the ZamalHaze is nowhere near this well developed. Another indicator of faster flowering is the fact she has visible resin, the ZamalHaze would have far less visible trichomes after 40 days.

She is really healthy too, and is happy at an ec of 1.9, ph 5.8. The ZamalHaze is more picky about nutes and although I've never grown it in coco, I doubt it would like an ec higher than 1.6. There is some slght glossiness to her leaves so I've stepped back to 1.8.

So, if the Zamal complex electric high remains, I am happy that this plant has achieved some of my goals - to reduce flower time, increase yield and retain the Zamal's complex effects.

With the flattened canopy and all the similar sized buds, yield could be interesting from this pheno. The Blueberry leaning one looks like it will be a much lower yield, no more than half of this one. It's still early and not time to make judgements, but i think this one may be the ne to select to make f2s. I have started 10 more seeds and will continue t start more over the coming moths as I want to explore all the phenotypical variation and find the very best, most Zamal leaning individuals. I have clones of both phenos and will clone the best I find in future, then in 12-18 months when I am satisfied I have found the best individuals and have sampled enough plants to form a proper viewpoint, I will then make f2s. This is a long term project and a labour of love for me.























The Blueberry pheno looks similar, her buds are a little smaller and less developed, but there is time yet for her to shine. She's in the back row of my cab so hard to remove, I'll prise her out for pics shortly.

Greetings B. Hempire, have you finsihed up working with this strain yet? Are seeds available?

Hiya Frosy

I'm just beginning my work on this breeding project. I have two females, I unfortuantely disposed of all the males as they showed quite early in veg and all looked to lean to the Blueberry side. Then there were a couple of hermies that were disposed of after a couple of weeks of flowering, and the plant I have saved thinking it was a Zamal pheno male turned out to be a hermie as well.

The female pictured in my last post has been saved in clone form pending finding a suitable Zamal pheno male to cross to. With the hermies in this F1 gen, I won't release any of the F1s as testers as I want to clean up the line of this trait before sending out testers. If anyone really, really wants to try out some F1s, I can make a few available, but please be aware of the hermie issue.

If I have difficulty cleaning the line up, I might drop this project and instead start the Zamal x Warlock and pure Zamal seeds I have and start over. Another option is to outcross to Elevator Man's Goldfinger line (Malawi x Flo) which has no hermie trait and is broadly similar.

i had one herm growing ZamalDestroyer x Parvati a while back. its Probably the Zamal.
but for zamal i dont care if its 50% herm id grow it

just let me know if i can help any BHempire

Female Seeds said that the Zamal had many hermies and that crossing to the Haze and feminising had halped a lot, but there may still be some hermies. I don't think the hermie trait comes from the Blueberry father, never saw any pistils on him and the same male fathered the Blueberry F3s I made and have been grown out by at least 2 people so far with no reports of hermies.

Rosy Cheeks said:

Hey BH. Congrats on the great strains. Just some anthropological info on the Zamal (I'm not a Zamal-grower myself, but I hear these stories all the time from my Réunionais friends).
The Zamal (a designation derived from the Malgash word "Zamala") is actually not concidered as a particular strain on the island. It is just the word used for Cannabis. There are several different varieties present on the island (and even if the mainstream production is Sativa, the part of the population that is of of Hindu descent brought Indica with them from the mainland). So, even if you grow seeds from la Réunion, you're not growing "Zamal", but a variety of Zamal.

The "Mangue-Carotte" could possibly be the designation of a much appreciated local variety, but most likely it refers to the way it was cultivated.
The "Gramouns", or the ancients (who used the Zamal to brew potions against asthma, anxiety and abdominal pains) classified the Zamal (quality) not after genetic properties, but where and how it was cultivated.

Therefore, the Mangue-Carotte is a type of fruity Sativa grown under Mango trees, which gives them a particular Mango scent. It is concidered the best quality weed - the lambsbread of la Réunion - and fetches the highest price.

The Lemon Zamal grows under Lemon trees, and is also concidered high quality, but ranked below the Mangue-Carotte.

The "la terre" is an earthy, musky produce of good quality, a soft smoke.

The "poivre de la gratel" is a spicy, peppery variety, a rough smoke of lower quality.

Equally, the "secopat" gets its name from the technique used for drying the produce.

Just a few POW:s on the Zamal.

Click to expand...

hey - always enjoy these threads, great stuff

about mango/carrot aroma strains and India -

the strongest mango/carrot aroma I have encountered in Indian strains was in a sativa strain grown in the Indian Himalaya, elevations of about 2000 to 3000 metres, pretty tropical lush area where strains finish around first two weeks of November (though hand-rubbing can begin is early as September)

there are two varieties used in the region - dataa, a larger higher yielding farmhouse sativa with very, very big seeds; and a smaller, lower yielding but intensely aromatic "junglii/junglee/wild" strain - the seeds of which are very small, and quite dark and mottled...

the junglii is the most sought-after for hand-rubbed charas, and is in fact also cultivated in gardens - the aroma is strongly of raw carrot, and very similar to certain types of mango, esp. a variety of Thai mango I know which is very aromatic and usually eaten raw green by Thais (forget the name); there are also hints of lime in both the junglii and dataa

all-in-all I would guess this Himalayan junglii variety has a very similar terpenoid profile to the Zamal "mango-carrot" type; the local Pahari people prize it most highly for charas as said... the dataa also produces a good high, but is not as prized for charas, though always used for it... I have seen junglii strains occasionally turning deep purple colours, though they are usually lime green coloured

it takes about 10 to 15 minutes for the junglii high to really get going - it's very uplifting, soaring, and gives and extremely long-lasting buzz - unquestionably extremely "spiritual" direction to it - unquestionably the most psychedelic charas I have smoked... rougher than the best Malana, but more intense, over-indulgence does blow your mind, leave you giddy with warped vision etc.; but just the right amount sets you up for the day

the plants themselves are not as absurdly resinous as say the Malana strains, nor the first rub charas quite as classy but the high they deliver is arguably superior and more intense...

as usual with me no photos for the moment for people to see, but once the camera and laptop are fixed I can post some up if people are interested... charas in these regions is traditionally rolled off the hands in a stick once a soft thick layer of black resin has formed on the palms from rubbing flowering tops of standing plants; then while soft the stick is folded back on itself once or twice and twisted up into a double or triple helix, with the ends smoothed off

it will generally set quite hard compared to Malana or first grade Afghan, but becomes pliable again around 22 - 25 degress c or so

btw I hear some good Swazi can have very strong raw carrot aromas too, so Wally Duck was saying

as I say, if people are interested I will post up some pics of Pahari plants, charas, people and scenery

I am not trying to claim these Himalayan strains are the ancestors to Zamal, but as terpenoid complexes go, the carrot-mango type are ones I would highly recommend for exploration, esp. for the quintessential sativa high

as with what RC is saying, and as with BH's tastes, I would agree that as highs go, the carrot-mango terpene-THC complex interacton is superior for the intensity, quality and duration of the high, superior even to the lemon type (which I was pursuing for a while)

my tuppence, all best

Ngakpa

Hiya Ngakpa

Thanks for popping in, always pleased to read your writings of your experiences in the sub continent.

Interestign coments about the carrot flavoured sativas and the Charas made from them. I can atest that the finest hash I have ever smoked was the small piece of finger hash I made from my first ZamalHaze harvest (I trim with my fingers, not scissors). It was amazing, same taste and effect as the Zamal buds but concentrated and strengthened 5x, the most psychedlic hash I have smoked.

Given that the Zamal genepool is composed of strains from India, Africa, SEAsia and possibly further north in Central Asia, I would not be at all surprised if those sativa genes you describe are present in the Zamal genepool, many Indians migrated to La Reunion and took their ganja with them.

Zamalito wrote of Zamal phenos that were clearly very Old Thai genes and others that were clearly old South Indian sativa genes, probably from Kerala area.

Sam the Skunkman is the man to ask about this, but perhaps there is a definite link between certain flavenoids and certain cannabinoids. All or most of the Dutch purples have a flavenoid that tastes like baby poo, it's unmistakeable and horrible. Perhaps there is a link between a carrot tasting flavenoid and a complex high. Perhaps that flavenoid is linked to a particular terpenoid or perhaps it is THCV and carrot flavoured strains tending to contain THCV? On it's own, THCV isn't psychoactive but rather, modulates the effects of the THC and other cannabinoids. I tend to think THCV is the main factor in the complexity and long duration of the Zamal high. Malawi also contains THCV and I've noted a similarly complex and long lasting high from Malawi Gold. I grew some Swazi and it had an earthy spicy taste that I loved, can certainly see how that taste can be similar to the carrot of the Zamal, although my ZamalHaze wasn't spicy carrots, it was sweet carrots, whereas the Swazi was earthy spices.

I would love to see any photos you can show us man, look forward to seeing them.

Man, some of your images are mind blowing! Keep me on a short list for some sample seeds one day, when you think they are ready (or just need a few tested). Rock On!

After I've sexed the 9 BB x ZH seedlings I have in 12/12 currently, I'll have a better handle on the hermie ratio. I found 3 hermies and 2 females, and 4 males that showed sex much earlier while still in veg that were discarded. That ratio of hermies is far too high for me to send out testers in good confidence. It could just have been the luck of the draw and I might not see many or any hermies out of the second batch of 9. Good thing is, with both batches, 10 out of 10 germed and I killed one of each batch when potting from the towels, I have stubby fingers and can be clumsy I guess! lol

If the hermie ratio turns out to be better than I thought, I will release some testers with the proviso that hermies may be found and the tester won't castigate me if unwlecome balls are found! I'd love to see someone grow these outdoors in full sun in a favourable climate with a long season. A fellow icmagger who has experience with a similar cross (Malawi Gold x Flo) has some of these beans already, so hopefully we will see some of these grown by others sometime.

Once I've done some cleaning of the line to remove the intersex trait I'll try to make enough testers to make sure everyone who would like to try her out can do so. Grow reports and feedback from other folks would be of immense value to my linebreeding program by giving me far more information than I could gather myself without doing a large-scale grow.

Here is the ZH pheno Blueberry x ZamalHaze lady at 51 days of 12/12, looking really nice. I reckon she will take 12 weeks or more as she is at 8 weeks and looks to have some time to go yet. If all these buds fatten up, yield could be impressive. My benchmark is the 44g dry I got from my 'El Yucateca' Mexican, so



















Here are some budshots, intriguing bud formation, very different from the Blueberry parent, some resemblance to the ZH mother, but she forms small, seperate buds, this plant has formed her buds in the same round pom-poms, but these clusters have joined up to form colas, which should dramatically improve yield:













She has been the picture of health and vigour from day one, the leaves are nice and glossy green, some slightly burnt tips from a tad of overfert, but she displays none of the curly leaves her mother usually does

BH I saw yur post in EMans thread and stopped in to see what you had going...that Blueberry pheno looks great...I can just imagine the smell if I close my eyes...I'll stick around awhile...DD

hey - I have put pics of the carrot/mango North Indian mountain sativas in a thread limeygreen started called "North Indian" and related strains

BH- looking very tasty! Looking forward to watching them finish us and checking out a smoke report.

Cheers, Mosca