Bill Zeller, Princeton Grad student who took his own life, powerful suicide letter

Fucked up.

supermanlives said:

i was both physically and mentally abused as a child. i was never fucked but everything else . including beatings

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I didn't know it was possible to beat the humanity out of a person, you've proved me wrong. Please cut your balls off so you don't reproduce.

he should have really really killed his parents before he did this

better yet, just leave them the fuck alone in their misery and go on with his life

all you can do in a situation like this is to make sure you dont repeat the same mistakes with your own children.. yes life deals you shit cards, but all you can do is to not let it turn you into the same shit, and maybe actually try to contribute that others dont have it as shitty as you did

herewegoboys said:

Disagree on two points. First that he lied about his sexuality. You didn't read the story properly. He was confused. He didn't knowingly lie.

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I told people I was gay (at Trinity, not at Princeton), even though I wasn't attracted to men and kept finding myself interested in girls.

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I don't care how he colors it or how you interpret it, that's makes him knowingly a liar.

herewegoboys said:

Second, I think your interpretation of survival of the fittest is misguided. Survival of the fittest implies a contribution, genetically, materially, or otherwise in order to further the species. He was a graduate student in computer science at an ivy league university. A genuine intellectual whom had the respect and admiration of his peers at merely 27, with a few inventions under his belt already.

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I called it AND I QUOTE "somewhat of a survival of the fittest or natural selection scenario" as I already know the textbook definition thnx.......

herewegoboys said:

What have you done with your life?

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I survived a nightmare similar to his.
I sought help when I needed it.
I've succeeded at many of my goals & failed at LOTS more.......


NEXT!!!

cashmunny said:

I know many adults (including myself) who suffered abuse and neglect as children and the pain haunts them everyday.

But he's wrong, talking about it does help.

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I never suffered sexual abuse thank God at least as far as I know, but suffered nearly daily beatings for no reason other than being a kid, and think my dad got sadistically aroused by it. Then I wonder if I wasn't abused as bad or worse emotionally by my mom but still that is no reason for this, no reason to take your own life. I see his pain but still, he had everything going for him. I feel I will still make it at over 40, and he had a much better shot at it with an Ivy League education and far younger. I don't know I can see his point but still think the best satisfaction (and revenge) would have been through sucesss and not by taking his own life, which right or wrong everyone will view as cowardice, or almost everyone that is.

Stoner4Life said:

I don't care how he colors it or how you interpret it, that's makes him knowingly a liar.



I called it AND I QUOTE "somewhat of a survival of the fittest or natural selection scenario" as I already know the textbook definition thnx.......


I survived a nightmare similar to his.
I sought help when I needed it.
I've succeeded at many of my goals & failed at LOTS more.......


NEXT!!!

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I respect you and enjoy your posts. I just thought your analysis here was a bit short-sighted. He's not a liar. He was confused. That's not a coloring. That's a truth, according to him, which we have to take seriously. Sexuality can be complicated.

I consider him weak. He concedes as much. I just thought it was a bit weak to say that he was a victim of natural selection, considering his intellectual contributions to society at such a young age. If your average half-wit made such a comment in passing, I wouldn't have bothered. But I know you know better, so it annoyed me a little.

Cheers.

"I refuse to let past bruises cover the light
it ain't all good, but its all good enough,
so I know I'm alright
agony is truth its our connection to the living I accept it as perfection and keep on existing in the now"

Funny how the people yelling "survival of the fittest" are also the same ones who claim to have been through similar shit as a child. Could it be a defense mechanism, an unconscious attempt to assert one's own superiority?

I mean, I spent the first 24 years of my life in deep depression due to circumstances in my own childhood. Nothing like what this guy went through, but I can sympathize where he's coming from. And I know that when I was antisocial and angry at the world, I was always doing and saying shit to assert my own superiority, and laughing at other's misfortunes because it made me feel better about my own shitty and fucked up life.

To say that this guy was somehow inferior because he chose to take his own life is fucking bullshit. I came pretty damn close to killing myself on a few occasions. And if I hadn't discovered the wonderful healing power of MDMA a few years back, and managed to make radical changes and improvements in my life, I might have done it by now.

The truth is, not sharing his dark secret with anyone is what did this guy in. He had trust issues and non supportive parents, so can you blame him? It doesn't matter how "good" your genes are--and I say that as a person who does have pretty fucking good genes--when the deck is totally stacked against you like this guy, it defines you as a person, and you don't HAVE any kind of outside perspective to draw upon and realize that some of your assumptions and views are flawed. I believe the only thing that kept me from killing myself at the age of 12, or 14, or 16, was that there WAS an earlier time in my life when I was happy. I *remembered* what happiness was, and realized at some level that what I was experiencing was not the way it necessarily had to be. If I didn't have those positive experiences to draw upon, I'm sure I would have ended up in an early grave from a self inflicted gunshot wound.

And to anyone who believes suicide is selfish: FUCK YOU.

This was a powerful letter. It spoke to me. I will never forget this. Rest in peace, Bill Zeller.

Cool post ginger ale.

I'll put this out there: I was sexually abused as a minor by a man. Not in the way this guy was (specifics matter, I think. I wasn't anally raped. This guy had physical problems as the result of rape, a whole new level), but nonetheless abused. It hasn't (knowingly) affected me at all. I just don't get the common rhetoric of most sexual abuse victims. I digested it and made peace with it a long time ago. I rarely think about it. It's just not a huge part of who I am. I don't have a great network of friends. I've not spoken about this abuse to anyone. I'm OK with that.

Hell, student loans have had a significantly greater impact on my being than sexual trauma.

Human nature sucks in many ways; I figured that out way before I was abused. But people- real people- can be trusted.

I fear that is what Bill never figured out, smart as he was. And yet still, I don't understand how his abuse affected him so much mentally. Speculating, I think he was tired; tired of trying so god damn hard, every minute of every day, to "play the game." The man was a brilliant talent, highly respected everywhere, and worked constantly. He probably felt the need to put in more "work" to cultivate a relationship at this point in his life, and it overwhelmed him. I really suspect that is what this is.

And that is why, in my mind, I cannot help but think of words like "weak," as much as it stings me to use such a callous word of a man much brighter and more successful than I am.

I don't have anger for him. I don't look down on him. Nothing but pity here.

RIP Bill Zeller.

Okay my feelings honestly here?

I felt bad for the kid until I got halfway through the book and realized what a whiny little bitch he is, so smart but yet so retarded. I don't give a fuck what happened, there is no excuse for taking your own life and he bought himself a one way ticket to hell worse than any hell he "thought" he was living here while alive. I have zero sympathy for him and the coward did not even identify the supposed rapist after all that? I call bullshit, I'm guessing he was gay and just could not deal with it and the over zealous religious fanatic parents. He dedicated a paragraph to telling everyone he was not gay, kinda suspect.

Good looking guy, brains, money, success, girls, takes own life? EPIC FAIL!

Guess what kid, life ain't perfect or fair and you don't always get dealt a perfect hand!

I have been through the depths of hell and back myself and there is absolutely NO way I am taking my own life, I would rot in prison for the rest of my days before I take the precious life God gave me and if you don't feel the same way you need to get your mind right because you only have one life to live and this shit ain't no trial run mang!

May God have mercy on his soul.

SOTF420 said:

Okay my feelings honestly here?

I felt bad for the kid until I got halfway through the book and realized what a whiny little bitch he is, so smart but yet so retarded. I don't give a fuck what happened, there is no excuse for taking your own life and he bought himself a one way ticket to hell worse than any hell he "thought" he was living here while alive. I have zero sympathy for him and the coward did not even identify the supposed rapist after all that? I call bullshit, I'm guessing he was gay and just could not deal with it and the over zealous religious fanatic parents. He dedicated a paragraph to telling everyone he was not gay, kinda suspect.

Good looking guy, brains, money, success, girls, takes own life? EPIC FAIL!

Guess what kid, life ain't perfect or fair and you don't always get dealt a perfect hand!

I have been through the depths of hell and back myself and there is absolutely NO way I am taking my own life, I would rot in prison for the rest of my days before I take the precious life God gave me and if you don't feel the same way you need to get your mind right because you only have one life to live and this shit ain't no trial run mang!

May God have mercy on his soul.

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You know I wish I hadn't read this cuz other than this post I liked you. This post makes me think you are a royal piece of shit.

Somebody's going to jail. His letter is incriminating even if he did not want it so. I've had some dark, life-ending thoughts myself and what saved me was postponement. Ie., if I still feel this way a year from now, I'm out. A year later, I could hardly remember the monster I was struggling against. Unfortunately, postponement did not work for this young fella. Intelligent, sensitive, and he would not tell anyone, even someone he loved. Go figure. For some of us, it is harder to live than to die but time does in fact heal all wounds. My condolences.

zenoonez said:

You know I wish I hadn't read this cuz other than this post I liked you. This post makes me think you are a royal piece of shit.

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See but that is how I honestly feel about it, and to me and what I BELIEVE IN taking your own life is basically the ultimate sin and I value all life whether it be perfect or imperfect. Never good when someone takes their own life and it's sad but let's be brutally honest here because maybe if he had been honest with himself and his family he could have dealt with what happened to him and got over it to lead a productive HAPPY life. So on that note, be honest with yourself and others and you will be a better man for it. Now if that makes me a royal piece of shit for being honest about MY beliefs well then I'll take my crown proudly for not trying to be politically correct here and crying to the sad story.

Sink or swim...sink or swim.

Survival Of The Fittest, that's the harsh reality of it is that some people are meant to flip cheeseburgers and drop fries in the oil, some people grow up to be President, and some people grow up to grow pot. He chose to grow up and be a coward and take the weak pussy way out.

That is not my fault or your fault, not even the bad guys fault he did not name. He only has himself to blame for what he did or did not not do, including taking his own life. EPIC FUCKING FAIL.

SOTF420 said:

See but that is how I honestly feel about it, and to me and what I BELIEVE IN taking your own life is basically the ultimate sin and I value all life whether it be perfect or imperfect. Never good when someone takes their own life and it's sad but let's be brutally honest here because maybe if he had been honest with himself and his family he could have dealt with what happened to him and got over it to lead a productive HAPPY life. So on that note, be honest with yourself and others and you will be a better man for it. Now if that makes me a royal piece of shit for being honest about MY beliefs well then I'll take my crown proudly for not trying to be politically correct here and crying to the sad story.

Sink or swim...sink or swim.

Survival Of The Fittest, that's the harsh reality of it is that some people are meant to flip cheeseburgers and drop fries in the oil, some people grow up to be President, and some people grow up to grow pot. He chose to grow up and be a coward and take the weak pussy way out.

That is not my fault or your fault, not even the bad guys fault he did not name. He only has himself to blame for what he did or did not not do, including taking his own life. EPIC FUCKING FAIL.

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Dunno bro. It seemed like he lost any enthusiasm for life when he was a kid. He talked about playing with his legos for hours on end, so he seemed like a really lonely kid also. Being sexually abused, then left alone to dwell in that misery would probably do some fuked up things to a kids head

zenoonez said:

You know I wish I hadn't read this cuz other than this post I liked you. This post makes me think you are a royal piece of shit.

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x2 on the first part. I was disappointed to read that more than angry. But I don't think he's a piece of shit. I just think he's fucking silly, and used to think he was way smart/older guy I had a lot to learn from.

God? Heaven?

Stop it.

Morality has nothing to do with his decision to cut it short. There is no prize at the end for hanging on as long as possible. The notion that morality is somehow intertwined with extending your life is intellectually vapid, misguided mental masturbation under the guise of toughness, and, in some cases, under the guise of Social Darwinism.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Did a few of you bump your head?

People are BORN with all kinds of terrible shit and diseases, learning disabilities, are in tragic accidents and lose limbs, eyes, can't walk anymore, get cancers, are homeless, stabbed, shot, cheated on, lied to, forsaken in any and every way you can imagine and the vast majority of these people GOD BLESS THEM live to fight another day and win the battle we are all fighting to survive and be alive.

I have no sympathy for a little spoiled Princeton prick who thinks his supposed should be idealistic little life needs to be perfect in order to live it, he apparently was totally naive in his short lived and non-appreciated life to think that getting some dick in the ass is a valid reason to take yourself outta the game. It's not and shame on him for daring to play God and throw away so much. You need to appreciate the good in your life and realize life is extremely precious. There are people who don't get the options, chances, priviledges or success this kid had! And you expect me to feel bad for him considering all of this? lmfao noway and no how brown cow. He wrote his pathetic little sob story to be judged afterwards and I'm doing it and I'm not drinking the kool-aid he served up to everyone.

Let this be my wake up call to anyone out there reading this thread and thinking this is the right path, it's not. Taking your own life is the ultimate bitch move and if anyone dares judge me for preaching that truth then you might be just a weak minded mofo who might end their own shit one day and to that I say, God Bless ya more weed, pussy, & opportunity for the rest of us because you can overcome ANYTHING in life, period. Life is what you make out of it and there are always better options.

his reasoning for the suicide was more psychological than anything else

SOTF420 said:

See but that is how I honestly feel about it, and to me and what I BELIEVE IN taking your own life is basically the ultimate sin and I value all life whether it be perfect or imperfect. Never good when someone takes their own life and it's sad but let's be brutally honest here because maybe if he had been honest with himself and his family he could have dealt with what happened to him and got over it to lead a productive HAPPY life. So on that note, be honest with yourself and others and you will be a better man for it. Now if that makes me a royal piece of shit for being honest about MY beliefs well then I'll take my crown proudly for not trying to be politically correct here and crying to the sad story.

Sink or swim...sink or swim.

Survival Of The Fittest, that's the harsh reality of it is that some people are meant to flip cheeseburgers and drop fries in the oil, some people grow up to be President, and some people grow up to grow pot. He chose to grow up and be a coward and take the weak pussy way out.

That is not my fault or your fault, not even the bad guys fault he did not name. He only has himself to blame for what he did or did not not do, including taking his own life. EPIC FUCKING FAIL.

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Listen, I don't have a problem with you saying what you believe, in fact I will assert you can say what you feel about anything whether we agree or not but I simply disagree with you. I disagree with you so earnestly that your take on the matter makes me think less of you. I am being open and honest here trying to explain to you as you have explained to me. Your honesty is not what makes you a piece of shit, in the same way that a racist's honesty isn't what makes him a piece of shit. It is the content of his moral character, the repugnance of his reason(or lack there of) that makes him a piece of shit. I simply find your religious or philosophical stance repugnant and disheartening. I understand where it comes from, I understand that you believe it vehemently, but I don't ascribe to the same code. I ascribe to the code of freedom and ownership, of a man owning himself and his body and being able to do with it what he pleases, even if that means slashing his wrists and throwing himself off of a bridge. To me he had every right to do what he did and he had a damn good reason for doing it as well. The poor guy didn't even view himself as human, he was destroyed by something he had no control over. SOTF, please, I have tried to explain it the best I can both here and through PM. I don't have anything against you, I just think your stance on this is inexcusable, not that I don't support your right to think it, but that I think that those who think it are predicating their philosophy or world understanding on something completely different than I do.

Could he have gotten better? Probably not. He could have learned to bury it deep or push it into a neat little therapy box like they teach you to do. Perhaps he could have talked about it so much he forgot it was real and it turned into fiction for him but a person never really gets over something like that. Could you imagine living life with the devil hanging over you every day? Literally? The feeling that evil was somehow emanating from your very being because of something someone did to you? How about not being able to truly connect to other human beings? I mean really? Not being able to have any emotional response? Being a sociopath? This kids brain was fucked up because of what happened to him. Could he have lived and gone on to have a family? Yes but he probably would have offed himself at 45 like so many other people out there who realize that their whole life was lived as a lie.

Peace,
Z

herewegoboys said:

God? Heaven?

Stop it.

Morality has nothing to do with his decision to cut it short. There is no prize at the end for hanging on as long as possible. The notion that morality is somehow intertwined with extending your life is intellectually vapid, misguided mental masturbation under the guise of toughness, and, in some cases, under the guise of Social Darwinism.

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I will say to this, the God part well now that is the age old argument isn't it and millions have died over it in history so let us not go down that single path that leads to certain positions being taken. I think if you really really think deeply about it and do some soul searching you will come to the conclusion that there is indeed a higher power and we did come from somewhere, somehow. If we evolved from little tadpoles that came from a puddle on mars well then they had to come from somewhere too.

His "prize" at the end (as you put it) would have been to do just that, hang in there and learn to cope adjust and grow into a more functional human being. I agree he may have had a rough time and had some problems but it's not his place to take his own life or the life his parents created, he may not have agreed with his parents religious beliefs but that is not reason to hate and despise them as he stated he did. He probably has absolutely devastated his Mother in all of this and just for that alone I think he is a dirt bag and selfish.

You probably could learn a thing or two here if you take a step back and look at the big picture and what this represents, mostly us as a society even starting to condone or accept shit like this because of the jaded evil world we live in and I for one will not stamp an approval on it. Like I said before that's how I honestly feel and apparently all the people sending me +k rep for these posts do to because not many will come out and take a stand against nonsense like this but I fully condemn it and think it's worse than what even happened to him to begin with, what he did in the end. He won't be going to heaven boys and girls sorry.

So just to be completely clear, suicide is never the answer to anything and I don't support it nor do I think he was justified in doing so. He wanted to be happy? That takes some real effort, alot of hard work and it never comes easy because life is not perfect for anyone else either.

zenoonez said:

*the whole post*

Peace,
Z

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Well that sounds negative, empty, pessimistic and without any rationale of hope, God or love to be found in the world and in life and that my friend is unfortunately a very dark scary place to be so if that's where you are as a human being in your evolution I suggest you seek serious help. He needed help, did not help himself and just because you have a tragic event in your life LIKE WE ALL EXPERIENCE in our own way shape or form that does not justify taking any life, certainly not your own. That viewpoint comes strictly out of my love, appreciation for life, and optimisitic view on things because I have God in my life and life, no matter the flaws, is always better than death.

Like I said to begin with may God have mercy on his soul.