Breeding with wild hemp

elmanito · Aug 24, 2009

DocLeaf said:
How else do you explain such a short longevity (3 seasons) over a seeded hemp crop?

Low THC-content, because THC protect the seed against UV-radiation.UV is responsible for mutations.

All grew fine first two years ,, grown in several locations ,, but all refused to germinate , (from both the first season seeds and the second seasons seeds),, in the 3rd season of sowing.

Which variety are you talking about????

GM crops there is a Dutch seed company (WOS) who claim to sell a fem. hybrid whose (fem.) male pollen was obtained from a GM afghan parent.

Do you have the complete name of this company????BTW never heard of a GMO Afghan variety.

Namaste :smoweed:

entropical · Aug 24, 2009

Thanks for the nfo on the vapes Doc, never used one but would indeed appreciate if you'd recommend a model that deserve special attention! As for WOS, it does appear that the first GMO cannabis has hit the market:

World of Seeds Legend - Afgan Kush Special (100% Fem 3 Seeds)
Type: 100% Indica
Female: Pure Afgan Kush
Stabilized male hybrid: The pollen is obtained from genetically modified plants. The male is obtained from a determinate quantity of plants growing with a mitotic inhibitor that give us polysomic plants. This mutant hybrid has been selected and classified with the best properties in order to obtain a new potential genetic in a new cross.
Harvest time: 8 weeks indoors / middle of October outdoor
THC level: 20% +
Medical value: High
CBD content: 1% +

Owl Mirror · Aug 24, 2009

entropical said:
would indeed appreciate if you'd recommend a model that deserve special attention!

http://vaportower.com/

Definitely beats my old one ;< }

elmanito · Aug 24, 2009

The male is obtained from a determinate quantity of plants growing with a mitotic inhibitor that give us polysomic plants.

This means that the variety is treated with colchicine which is something else than genetic modified by other genes like Monsanto do.

Namaste :smoweed:

cork144 · Aug 24, 2009

remember docleaf hes breeding cbd strains for people to use to get better, not to get high.

not saying that the cannabis around atm doesnt help people, but it is well known that CBD is the shit when it comes to helping us.

DocLeaf · Aug 25, 2009

The vap temps were for a Volcano vapouriser ...

@elmanito :

The seeded hemp was originally 'taken' from several hectares of industrial grade hemp c.1995 :

The next season (c.1996) we grew the seeds in gardens and the same plants grew feral in the original fields :

One year later (c.1997),, NONE of the seeds would grow!

We believed that this was an early trial of Genetically Modified Hemp in the UK : (the modification being the ability for farmers to sow the crop without the seeds invading the field forever). To this day no hemp plants have again been seen in those fields (or gardens).

elmanito said:
This means that the variety is treated with colchicine which is something else than genetic modified by other genes

No it doesn't,, the other seeds by WOS are apparently made how you suggest, ,, but 2 of their strains are listed as sourced from GM stock.

Peace all :joint:

Btw.. there is no credible correlation between UV light and the resin production in cannabis !!!

1. many sativa species produce the first resin glands on the undersides of the leaf (not on top).

2. UV is at it's highest density in spring months (not autumn/winter when cannabis flowers)

3. Leaves contain a waxy cuticle layer and melanin pigments that help absorb harmful UV-radiation during the vegetative stages when UV light is naturally at its highest.

The 'UV-Theory' is that,, a theory!

Hope this helps

elmanito · Aug 25, 2009

In 1995-1996 French populations of hemp grew in the UK.Genetic Modification in France is not very popular since GMO corn is still not allowed to grow in France although it is approved by the EFSA.This also counts btw for Germany.

What you are talking about seems like terminating genes which is used by Monsanto for its soybeans.By my knowledge this is not used in the hemp industry.

About UV
There is indeed a correlation between UV-radiation & THC-production.Plants like Nepali grown high in the mountains produce higher amounts of THC because of higher UV-concentration.You will not find any Nepali plants with a high CBD-production.
Another fact is that THC has nothing to do with the resin production.You can have plants with a lot of resin but low in THC.

The male is obtained from a determinate quantity of plants growing with a mitotic inhibitor that give us polysomic plants.

Colchicine is a mitotic inhibitor.

Namaste :smoweed:

Herbalistic · Aug 25, 2009

Good points about UV & THC ElManito :yes:

That´s what I have tried to replicate on past grows with UV-B bulb....

Doc: Good points you made too :yes:

Very interesting info about the germrate´s of those hempseeds, very interesting :chin:

EM: Didnt know it was hard to find in EU! I could try to find you a bargain ove here, if you are interested

kopite · Aug 25, 2009

The whole hermaphrodific crop was genetically programmed to die out ,,, which is unnatural in any species of cannabis.

Docleaf,

Perhaps the Industrial hemp used was Monoecious or a Unisexual female to begin with...

Kopite

DocLeaf · Aug 25, 2009

elmanito said:
What you are talking about seems like terminating genes which is used by Monsanto for its soybeans.By my knowledge this is not used in the hemp industry.

Good info. :yes:

Indeed,, 100% it was a terminating cultigen of cannabis : from sativa/indica lineage

There are no natural methods of producing 'terminating genetics' that we are aware of.

The above was Genetically Modified IMO. :no:

Peace all

RE UV :

Again UV intensity (solar radiation) in the Himalayas (from Chitral through to Nepal) is highest in spring months. Cannabis plants produce THC / resin in autumn. Likewise ,, we have observed, lowland African varieties produce glands on the lower sides of leaves blades first,, prior to developing them above the leaf or in the flower nodes. Old UV tests ,, based on research by Ed Rosenthal ,, was conducted under glasshouses conditions. Any addition (artificial) light source would have increase lumens and made the plants produce more resin/THC than those that were grown without any additional lamps in the test.

Thricomes : 'It is likely that in many cases, hairs interfere with the feeding of at least some small herbivores and, depending upon stiffness and irritability to the "palate", large herbivores as well. Hairs on plants growing in areas subject to frost keep the frost away from the living surface cells. In windy locations, hairs break-up the flow of air across the plant surface, reducing evaporation. Dense coatings of hairs reflect solar radiation, protecting the more delicate tissues underneath in hot, dry, open habitats.'

source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichomes

Hope this helps...

DocLeaf · Aug 25, 2009

elmanito said:
Colchicine is a mitotic inhibitor.

Yes. But we read it that they sprayed a GM Afghan female to make male pollen for those 2 crosses :chin:

Otherwise the whole range would say...

"pollen obteined from plants genetically modificated.Male is obtained from a determinated quantity of plants growth with a mitothic inhibitor that give us polysomic plants"

Their other fem. seeds do not mention GM. Only those Afghan Kush and NYC Special.

Hope this helps

kopite · Aug 25, 2009

Docleaf,

If you started with unisexual plants its highly likely that either the male or female side would be sterile, it suggests below that you did start with A monoecious crop you also stated that it was french hemp did you not ? its highly likely that either male or female would have sterility.

The whole hermaphrodific crop was genetically programmed to die out ,,, which is unnatural in any species of cannabis.

There are no natural methods of producing 'terminating genetics' that we are aware of.

if it is french hemp their cultivars are from a monoecious line, they were bred for pulp.

French cultivars

Cultivars from France are bred and commercialized by the Fédération Nationale des Producteurs de Chanvre (FNPC), 20, rue Paul Ligneul, F-72000, Le Mans, France; Fax: +33 4377 0916. French cultivars are monoecious. In France they are grown for pulp. Their cultivation within the EU is eligible for the subsidy on fibre crops. Current breeding in France is mainly aimed at maintenance of the present cultivars (conservative breeding) and at further reduction of their THC content. Seed for sowing is readily available in two qualities. Crops grown from first quality seed (elite seed) consist almost exclusively of monoecious plants. Those from second quality seed (harvested from free-pollinated crops raised from elite seed) comprise, due to natural genetic drift, 15 to 30% males as well as a substantial amount of true-female plants. In 1995 prices were 19.30 FF/kg (ca US$ 4.00) for first quality seeds and 14.80 FF/kg (ca US$ 3.00) for second class seed. Within France, for FNCP members, seed is cheaper (O. Beherec, pers. comm., 1995).

All French cultivars are either selected directly from 'Fibrimon' (truly-monoecious cultivars), or from cross-progenies of 'Fibrimon' and several dioecious exotic fibre strains (pseudo-monoecious cvs.). 'Fibrimon' is a monoecious cross-bred cultivar with high fibre content. It was bred at the German Max-Planck-Institut Hamburg-Volksdorf by von Sengbusch between 1951 and 1955 (Bredemann et al., 1961). The parental populations were: inbred material obtained from monoecious plants spontaneously occurring in 'Havelländische' or 'Schurigs' hemp which was again a selection from Central-Russian origin (Hoffmann, 1961); dioecious selections with very high fibre content from Germany (also retained from Central-Russian populations) and dioecious late-flowering landraces from Italy and Turkey. 'Fibrimon' was transferred to France, among other countries, in the late 1950s. The crossing of selected exotic populations with 'Fibrimon' was carried out in the 1960s.

Most details on the breeding of French cvs. are based on J.P. Mathieu (pers. comm., 1992). The current cultivars 'Fibrimon 21', 'Fibrimon 24' and 'Fibrimon 56', were selected directly from 'Fibrimon' for diverging dates of maturity. 'Férimon 12' is an early maturing selection from 'Fibrimon 21', especially intended for seed production. The higher the numbers added to the names of French cultivars, the later they are supposed to flower and mature.

'Fédora 19' is the result of a cross between female plants of the Russian dioecious cv. JUS 9 and monoecious individuals from 'Fibrimon 21', followed by back-crossing of the unisexual female F1 with 'Fibrimon 21' intersex plants. The parent 'JUS 9' is an offspring from a crossing between 'Yuzhnaya Krasnodarskaya' (originally selected from Italian hemp) and dwarf northern Russian hemp.

Likewise, 'Félina 34' results from a cross between the dioecious parent 'Kompolti', and 'Fibrimon 24', followed by back-crossing with 'Fibrimon 24'.

'Fédrina 74' and 'Futura 77' both result from a cross between the dioecious parent 'Fibridia' and 'Fibrimon 24' followed by back-crossing with 'Fibrimon 24'. 'Fibridia' is described by Bredemann et al. (1961). It originates from the same German program as 'Fibrimon' and has the same ancestors, except the monoecious 'Schurigs' inbreds.

A new completely THC-free cultivar, with name and pedigree unknown to the author has been registered in 1995 (O. Beherec, pers. comm., 1995).

Kopite

elmanito · Aug 25, 2009

I don't expect that the strain Finola contains terminator genes, since this strain is used for food and that counts also for some other hemp varieties like from the Ukraine or Poland.

It would not surprise me that some GMO hemp was perhaps grown in the UK in the past, but these varieties can only be grown for fibre or other industrial purposes and certainly not for food.If Soil Association had some knowledge about it, you would had a big riot in the UK.

A GM Afghan female, i wonder from whom they did obtain the GM Afghan female, if it is genetic modified. :chin:

On the website of WOS (btw they're Spanish not Dutch) it says not anything about genetic modified Afghan Kush, so in my opinion its just BS story.
You can work with colchicine to get polyploidy plants like what Warmke did in 1943 with Cannabis, but this is something else than genetic modification, where you work with other genes.The use of colchicine is probably misunderstood and explained as genetic modification.

Time to investigate in disguise!!!! :pimp3:

Namaste

elmanito · Aug 25, 2009

‘Kompolti Hybrid TC’ (registered in 1983) is a three-way-cross hybrid in which two selections from Chinese origin, ‘Kinai Kétlaki’ (dioecious) and ‘Kinai Egylaki’ (monoecious), and ‘Kompolti’ are combined. The first step of the crossing (‘Kinai dioecious’ x ‘Kinai monoecious’) where the monoecious parent acts as pollen spender, gives a unisexual, almost pure female F1, called ‘Kinai Uniszex’. This unisexual progeny can be considered as an analogue for male sterile breeding lines. It is subsequently used as a female parent in the crossing (‘Kinai Uniszex’ x ‘Kompolti’) which produces the commercial three-way-cross hybrid ‘Kompolti Hybrid TC’, which has again a 50/50 sex ratio.

Varieties from Hungary, grown by myself in the mid-nineties.

Namaste :smoweed:

CANNACO-OP · Aug 25, 2009

lots of good info

not going to hijack it, but got some stuff also, rather then double post some pics:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=128598&highlight=wild+hemp

I just checked the wild patch by me, looking like crap, but I think I am going to de-seed it and run it through bubble bugs and see what the true grade shit will do, if anything and that will be my test, if it absolutely sucks, then not going to waste time anymore on it.

I did have some left over males that did not want and collected pollen and just went and buried em by another wild stand, pretty much past prime for polleniation, but what the hey..

thanks again for all the info guys and gals!

Peace and happy breeding!

~fvk~ · Aug 25, 2009

elmanito said:
A GM Afghan female, i wonder from whom they did obtain the GM Afghan female, if it is genetic modified.
On the website of WOS (btw they're Spanish not Dutch) it says not anything about genetic modified Afghan Kush, so in my opinion its just BS story.
You can work with colchicine to get polyploidy plants like what Warmke did in 1943 with Cannabis, but this is something else than genetic modification, where you work with other genes.The use of colchicine is probably misunderstood and explained as genetic modification.

Time to investigate in disguise!!!!

The general consensus is to take anything World of Sketch says with a grain of salt. They're really good at marketing, but their genetic lineage stories seem to have played out to be bullshit in numerous experiences.

As far as hemp goes, yeah, it's hemp... I'd hate to see it get worked into the cannabis sativa gene pool, but whatever... Have fun...

DocLeaf · Aug 25, 2009

elmanito said:
It would not surprise me that some GMO hemp was perhaps grown in the UK in the past, but these varieties can only be grown for fibre or other industrial purposes and certainly not for food. If Soil Association had some knowledge about it, you would had a big riot in the UK.

Defo.

It was likely a 'black-project' ,, government supported reseach program,, or extended university field-trail.

Remember it's not like they inform the public before they run tests on genetically modified anything... let alone cannabis in the UK.

kopite said:
Docleaf,

If you started with unisexual plants its highly likely that either the male or female side would be sterile, it suggests below that you did start with A monoecious crop you also stated that it was french hemp did you not ? its highly likely that either male or female would have sterility.

I did not mention France .. someone else did

The crops were growing in the UK,, likely from Canadian origin (think the Queen owns it)... haha

The plants were full blown hermapharodites in both generations.

The seeds (collected from original hemp fields) were viable in the first season / generation we grew them / sowed them out.

In the third season the seeds were no-longer viable,, using seed stocks from both the first and second generation crops.

CANNACO-OP said:
I think I am going to de-seed it and run it through bubble bugs and see what the true grade shit will do

Yeah try bubble it :yes:

only wish we knew back then what we know now,, we'd have stood in the field mixing it up :biglaugh:

The smell and resin layer was quite intense

cork144 · Aug 25, 2009

UV may be in higher levels during spring, but that doesnt mean there isnt any uv during autumn or winter,

DocLeaf · Aug 25, 2009

Sure UV is always present. The point is as an annual cannabis would produce protective resin in spring if it was related to UV protection. .. and that cannabis thrives in growth during spring!

Hemp:

Crossing cannabinoid grade cannabis with naturally occurring wild low grade cannabis (hemp) is interesting. Like the hemp that grows wild and native in the hedgerows of Dorset, UK. This could be a good thing,, perhaps,, :yes:

However ,, crossing cannabinoid grade cannabis with low grade industrial hemp (possibly from GM stock) is a whack idea! And could be a bad thing in the long term :no:

Peace n sticky flowers all

cork144 · Aug 25, 2009

I suppose, but is resin not produced to protect the calyx's? therefore a product of flowering only?

Im not arguing, just debating, I still have much to learn and you have alot more knowlage on the subject than I, so there is a thing or twenty I can learn from you.

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Breeding with wild hemp

elmanito

entropical

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Owl Mirror

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elmanito

cork144

DocLeaf

procreationist

elmanito

Herbalistic

Herbal relaxation...

kopite

DocLeaf

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DocLeaf

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kopite

elmanito

elmanito

CANNACO-OP

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~fvk~

the Lion is going Guerrilla...

DocLeaf

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DocLeaf

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