Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

Bud buster said:

They look great you got some fat trees it a good test you can compare runs in a dialed setup. Have you noticed them being denser than before? That is what i find it just makes them branch so much.

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Dense is an understatement. Along with the 2-3x more bud sites it branches 2x more. BUT these 6 have vegged for about 7 weeks and although denser it stunts the growth like all that have mentioned.
These are 3.5' wide and all are 3.5' tall with the exception of an Enigma plant out back which shot up 6'. Thank god I got 10' rooms.

Usually after 4 weeks of veg (on a normal cycle w/o def) I can flip and they would see 6' and yield 3#.

It's a fucken bitch to get in there and defoliate. If I had more room it might be a different story.

So for 3 weeks extra veg(a 75% increase from 4 weeks) you'll increase your yeild by 25%.

An extra run per year would yield you more overall.

Defoliation is bullshit.


Here are some plants vegged for ~4 weeks, never defoliated, branchier than anything you folks have shown me.

i Second that ^^^^ buy hey let the blind lead the blind lol hey whodare oh i just got to post a pic of my undefoilated girls as well

all i see is a shitload of spots where there is probably more larf that woulda been bud...

iampolluted said:

all i see is a shitload of spots where there is probably more larf that woulda been bud...

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see that is the thing not worried about lower bud sites when you get 100's of buds like this on 5 gallon pail on tops but anyways for me i just started flowering but in my sig you will see complete grow till weight in
by the way that is 12 plants 5 x 15 scrog estimated yield 7 - 9 pounds dry

iampolluted said:

all i see is a shitload of spots where there is probably more larf that woulda been bud...

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Lol



Here's a comparison for you folks... From the op himself

k33ftr33z said:

Here's an example of a plant that has been defoliated at least 3 times up to this point and ready again at 20 days. Unfortunately this does not translate well to photos with limited depth perception. Nevertheless the plants in the background and all the plants finished and otherwise I have posted have been subjected to severe defoliation, more so than anyone has so far admitted to or willing to experiment with. So the proof is always in the end product which is quite clear.
[View Image

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Here are mine at 21 days flower. There is no comparison, especially since I vegged for 4 weeks max opposed to 5-6 at least.

You do realize that sativas like the op is growing are not known for weight or speed but he got more weight defoliated than not so your comparing apples to oranges. Now if you defoliated a plant in your vertical grow then you can compare and be talking from experience not theory. The poster on the last page has bigger and 2 or 3 times denser plants which took longer but doesn't necessarily have to he is only growing 3 plants you guys are growing many more plants to fill your canopy many smaller plants need less veg time to fill a space,

He got a few more grams because he had to veg longer...

Defoliate in my vertical grow? What are you talking about?

Denser than what, so he grew bigger plants but it took longer? Makes sense to me

I use 4 plants to fill 4x4, a four week veg was a bit much but I was short one plant.

Do all the mental gymnastics you want, I yield higher gpsqft than you fools and do it faster, but keep defoliating and have fun never maxing your yield.

yep, thanks for the comparison shots....you see the bottom of his plant? the buds are the same damn size as the ones on top.....you CANNOT say the same. i see a fuckton of shade under your canopy, thereby reducing your TOTAL yield PER plant. it's fucking logic. you trim up the bottom of your plants because you don't get light there and essentially lose bud. op trims his leaves and the larf you cut off, he's bagging up because it's NOT larf.

oh, and dr....i don't need a scrog to get what you've shown. i can get that with a sog that's defoliated. it's funny how you guys only show cola shots, and anything above the screen, but nothing below it, and i know why. there's no fucking bud down there. op has bud from top to bottom and all of it is getting light, yours are not.

Wow!

Still going back and forth, its like the Hatfields and McCoys feuding. Gotta love the passion.

iampolluted said:

yep, thanks for the comparison shots....you see the bottom of his plant? the buds are the same damn size as the ones on top.....you CANNOT say the same. i see a fuckton of shade under your canopy, thereby reducing your TOTAL yield PER plant. it's fucking logic. you trim up the bottom of your plants because you don't get light there and essentially lose bud. op trims his leaves and the larf you cut off, he's bagging up because it's NOT larf.

oh, and dr....i don't need a scrog to get what you've shown. i can get that with a sog that's defoliated. it's funny how you guys only show cola shots, and anything above the screen, but nothing below it, and i know why. there's no fucking bud down there. op has bud from top to bottom and all of it is getting light, yours are not.

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The whole point of this thread is to find out if defoliation is a high yield technique.

Well I guess we've answered it with a resounding NO.

If you want to have the lower buds get mature strip your fans and ruin your main tops.

Yes it can increase branching, at the expense of time, or you could up your watts per square foot.

Look I'm not bashing anyone who does it or promotes it, just pointing out facts that contradict the premise of this thread. Is anyone in this thread that defoliated hitting as high as 90 grams per square foot? Doubt it...

iampolluted said:

yep, thanks for the comparison shots....you see the bottom of his plant? the buds are the same damn size as the ones on top.....you CANNOT say the same. i see a fuckton of shade under your canopy, thereby reducing your TOTAL yield PER plant. it's fucking logic. you trim up the bottom of your plants because you don't get light there and essentially lose bud. op trims his leaves and the larf you cut off, he's bagging up because it's NOT larf.

oh, and dr....i don't need a scrog to get what you've shown. i can get that with a sog that's defoliated. it's funny how you guys only show cola shots, and anything above the screen, but nothing below it, and i know why. there's no fucking bud down there. op has bud from top to bottom and all of it is getting light, yours are not.

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if you call that buds then i don't know man lol i cal that shake and hash material
please do tag along in my thread in my sig would love to show you what 14 - 17 0z plant looks like yes per plant dry you got to remember one thing 12 plants covering 5 feet by 15 feet scrog table again sogs lol which i have done in large scale which i don;t do anymore its to much expense in nutrients and i am achieving more yield with less plants if that makes sense
but in sogs lower bud sites become larf which defeats the purpose to bad i am on wrong pc would show you what do you call a sog 200 - 600 plant sog ??? but hey if you call this a sog then by all means it is lol 72 clones starting day 10 12 /12 just for the hell of it under 1k c02

a sog is any size in any available space..... the size of the sog is irrelevant. i find it odd that you even bring up the size of the space used to grow, considering many people don't have access to a 5'x15' scrog, or the time and patience to do one. i sure as fuck don't have the patience! just because you have the time and space doesn't mean shit to anyone but you. some people grow in pc cases, but i'm sure their grows are all laughable to you.

at 2 weeks into flower i don't expect the op to have monster buds, but his plants are ALL bud, no leaf, no shade, and certainly not 8-10" of bare stalk that is wasting away under the shade of 100 leaves. his plants produce on the bottom as well as the top. you still can't say that. so yeah, you get larf, shake, hash material, or whatever you call it, he (op) does not.

i assume you ran sog's with a hori bulb....i don't. my bulbs are vert, and i sog up the walls on racks. 2k with 4 lights flip flopped. every single inch of my plants get light. top to bottom. no larf anywhere. i don't want to grow a fucking plant for 4 months to get 14 oz, when i can grow 30 plants and get the same amount a month faster. grow smarter, not longer....

to say defo is a high yield technique is a bit misleading. it will produce more in that there won't be larf, thus an increase in yield. if there's no larf, there is no "hash making material," unless it's a fully grown bud.

oh...and stripping the leaves doesn't fuck up the tops. i have no clue where ya heard that bullshit, but it's false.

iampolluted said:

a sog is any size in any available space..... the size of the sog is irrelevant. i find it odd that you even bring up the size of the space used to grow, considering many people don't have access to a 5'x15' scrog, or the time and patience to do one. i sure as fuck don't have the patience! just because you have the time and space doesn't mean shit to anyone but you. some people grow in pc cases, but i'm sure their grows are all laughable to you.

at 2 weeks into flower i don't expect the op to have monster buds, but his plants are ALL bud, no leaf, no shade, and certainly not 8-10" of bare stalk that is wasting away under the shade of 100 leaves. his plants produce on the bottom as well as the top. you still can't say that. so yeah, you get larf, shake, hash material, or whatever you call it, he (op) does not.



i assume you ran sog's with a hori bulb....i don't. my bulbs are vert, and i sog up the walls on racks. 2k with 4 lights flip flopped. every single inch of my plants get light. top to bottom. no larf anywhere. i don't want to grow a fucking plant for 4 months to get 14 oz, when i can grow 30 plants and get the same amount a month faster. grow smarter, not longer....

to say defo is a high yield technique is a bit misleading. it will produce more in that there won't be larf, thus an increase in yield. if there's no larf, there is no "hash making material," unless it's a fully grown bud.

oh...and stripping the leaves doesn't fuck up the tops. i have no clue where ya heard that bullshit, but it's false.

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all i am trying to say is by defoilating leafs you just took away sugars and starches from the plants it doesn;t make sense at all like getting ready to run the marathon but you havn;t had any food for a day how does osmosis actually work transpiration c02 uptake and 02 exchanges it all comes from the leafs that you sadly took off
you expect a body builder to get big working out when he doesn;t put on the carbs it won;t happen it never will he will lose weight not gain mass if that makes sense

i have dried a shit load of buds in my time and also can guarntee you that looking at the ops plants yes all his lower buds would be blown away from the fan NO Weight to them period do you have any idea how much weight you need to make a pound dry ???? 1816 grams wet give or take a few grams and how much it shrivils up ????
i am guessing the op could place a few of his lower buds and it prob wouldn;t even read on a scale thats how light they are
so in laymans terms that is shake

iampolluted said:

a sog is any size in any available space..... the size of the sog is irrelevant. i find it odd that you even bring up the size of the space used to grow, considering many people don't have access to a 5'x15' scrog, or the time and patience to do one. i sure as fuck don't have the patience! just because you have the time and space doesn't mean shit to anyone but you. some people grow in pc cases, but i'm sure their grows are all laughable to you.

at 2 weeks into flower i don't expect the op to have monster buds, but his plants are ALL bud, no leaf, no shade, and certainly not 8-10" of bare stalk that is wasting away under the shade of 100 leaves. his plants produce on the bottom as well as the top. you still can't say that. so yeah, you get larf, shake, hash material, or whatever you call it, he (op) does not.

i assume you ran sog's with a hori bulb....i don't. my bulbs are vert, and i sog up the walls on racks. 2k with 4 lights flip flopped. every single inch of my plants get light. top to bottom. no larf anywhere. i don't want to grow a fucking plant for 4 months to get 14 oz, when i can grow 30 plants and get the same amount a month faster. grow smarter, not longer....

to say defo is a high yield technique is a bit misleading. it will produce more in that there won't be larf, thus an increase in yield. if there's no larf, there is no "hash making material," unless it's a fully grown bud.

oh...and stripping the leaves doesn't fuck up the tops. i have no clue where ya heard that bullshit, but it's false.

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man you dont make sense.
i scrog but i veg for a month i dunno where you get the four months veg time?

you grow smarter.. fair enough, anyone growing vert should be killing it. its pretty much the most efficient way to grow. you say you get no shitty lower buds but ive seen the shelf style verts, the plants are only 6inches tall. they barely have lower buds.

the simple fact is this.

more leaves > more food > more growth= higher yield

skinning plants> less food > less growth= smaller/ airy buds.

repeat post

siftedunity nailed right on everyone that defoils from what i read takes longer to veg
and by the way i vegged from clone 5 weeks to where there @ here is a pic @ 5 weeks flipping to flower

i didn't say a 4 month veg time....you're not paying attention obviously.

actually, my plants are 24" tall, or bigger usually. i flower @ a foot, no less. any less and it's not worth it, i've tried it. mostly though, that depends on genetics and stretch.

you guys seem to have missed the point where a leaf is a leaf regardless of size. that 2" leaf still produces the same shit a 10" leaf does. just like every person is made up of the same molecular structure. it's the same in every leaf. i, personally, don't strip em all, but a few here and a few there over the course of a couple weeks. they still grow vertically, and tend to branch a little. i don't want a lot of branching but i do want em to start a branch to produce more larger nuggets on the ends, than little buds farther down. my branches average 4"-6" and it ends up almost all bud, the only leave are the one below the branch. op has large long branches and imo is wasting bud space. i'm growing bud, not sticks and leaves.

more leaf does NOT equal more bud..it equals more leaf/shade.
skinning plants does not equal less food. it equals less shade. small leaves still produce food for the plant.
less growth? wtfe, it looks different, it doesn't mean it's growing less.
airy bud? you must be on crack. light penetration = denser buds. shaded areas = larf.
simple fact? bullshit!

dr....little leaves are still transpiring, still producing food. how much energy is being used trying to sustain the greenery in a larger leaf? it's not getting bigger, it's staying the same size, only to fall off at some point. how many smaller leaves do you lose throughout the grow? my guess is very little, if any. that is until they reach full growth and stop. why are the oldest leaves the 1st ones to fall off? hmmmm seems like they stop producing food for the plant at some point and the plant rids itself of excess weight and energy loss trying to keep it when it doesn't need it....kinda like when a body builder drops weight before a show. to reach it's peak physical condition. in their eyes, water weight is wasted weight, and that is exactly what a larger leaf is...water weight.

if people dont like small bottom buds chop them off. its all about knowing how to maintain a decent structure and remove the crap so that the bigger buds get the benefits.

out of all the pics here ive seen here the defoliated ones dont look all that good.