Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???

ceosam said:

like he said, ive read the thread many times and everyone has something different to say.

oh and you are especially an asshole because i tried to find your post with search, but instead i found a thread you made trying to get info on a root aphid product in this subforum... why didnt you ask it it the thread, huh? huh? here is the thread dated 9/15/2013 -- this thread is from 2010
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=271105&highlight=root+aphid

edit:

just looked back one page, seems you are still battling making it over 7 months trying to "beat" RA... seems like you need to chop and reboot

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Pipe down dude, I beat these guys, (RA's) with a hell of a lot of ups and downs, and I posted my eventual success routine in DETAIL recently. Your looking at old battle posts. I am only trying to help

i have read atleast 70+ pages now. as well as countless other forums.i cant seem to find anything that will forsure kill all kinds of RAs. merit 75wp seems to be the best bet for soil drench(mixed with other strong chemicals). but i am want to kill any remaining RAs lingering in my room. i dont think i have any fliers left. i didnt have many to start with. and i havent seen any sense i took all infested soil out(3 days ago). merit 75wp works by being absorbed into the plant correct? what is that best chemical or chemicals that kill on contact?

im sorry if i am making you repeat yourself but i am having a hard time finding this information in the endless amounts of information.

but i will continue to read on. its just frustrating because 99% of this information is on plant friendly chemicals for soil drenching. where i have decided to start over. and i am looking for something or things that will kill everything!

You can use the PCO Choice cedar cide as an area spray in your home. It is nice smelling, safe for your pets and family and around your food area, and TRUST ME, it kills all aphids on contact. I tried about 100 things on fliers and crawlers and even bleach and 35% H202 did NOT kill them all as a direct spray contact killer, but the cedar oil does get em'
use @ 1/2 oz concentrate per quart of water.
Kinda sucks cause its not super cheap, BUT IT WORKS, best for room sprays, in my opinion
Honestly, me, I wouldn't do Merit, cause that tobacco based product lingers wayyyyyy tooooo long

Mixed Botanigard ES into the res and drenched for a few days.... Got rid of root aphids each time I've gotten them. The stuff works great, and has even made some crazy mushrooms grow in my coco.

I used 2 bottles for one 200 gal res. That stuff kicks ass and I've never seen them return, unless plants in another room didnt get treated.

Im sure someone has already mentioned this here in this thread, but wanted to share my success with using it. It kicks gnat ass too and just about any other soft bodied insects in the growing medium.

Elite Nugz said:

Mixed Botanigard ES into the res and drenched for a few days.... Got rid of root aphids each time I've gotten them. The stuff works great, and has even made some crazy mushrooms grow in my coco.

I used 2 bottles for one 200 gal res. That stuff kicks ass and I've never seen them return, unless plants in another room didnt get treated.

Im sure someone has already mentioned this here in this thread, but wanted to share my success with using it. It kicks gnat ass too and just about any other soft bodied insects in the growing medium.

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What up Elite, I'm glad you had good luck with Botaniguard. I spent like $160 on 2 big containers of it, with almost no relief. It seemed to help A LITTLE BIT, but Botaniguard didn't stand a chance in the outbreak of epic proportions that I had. Something else had to be done....

sammyz2646 said:

What up Elite, I'm glad you had good luck with Botaniguard. I spent like $160 on 2 big containers of it, with almost no relief. It seemed to help A LITTLE BIT, but Botaniguard didn't stand a chance in the outbreak of epic proportions that I had. Something else had to be done....

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Do you know if the bottles you used were exposed to high temperatures, or had been sitting for a while?

When I spoke to the rep, they pushed the issue of the bottle being fresh and not exposed to extreme temps.

sammyz2646 said:

You can use the PCO Choice cedar cide as an area spray in your home. It is nice smelling, safe for your pets and family and around your food area, and TRUST ME, it kills all aphids on contact. I tried about 100 things on fliers and crawlers and even bleach and 35% H202 did NOT kill them all as a direct spray contact killer, but the cedar oil does get em'
use @ 1/2 oz concentrate per quart of water.
Kinda sucks cause its not super cheap, BUT IT WORKS, best for room sprays, in my opinion
Honestly, me, I wouldn't do Merit, cause that tobacco based product lingers wayyyyyy tooooo long

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awesome this is exactly the information i have been searching high and low for! sammy your the man and i have to give you props for your quick response.

DankDanGer said:

awesome this is exactly the information i have been searching high and low for! sammy your the man and i have to give you props for your quick response.

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Best of luck to you my friend. FYI, since your not using the cedar oil on plants, try that strength 1st, (which should have no problem killing them), BUT since your away from plants , you can up the strength to BLAST those bastards to smithereens.

Another thing when it comes to using cedar oil or ANY oils for that matter-

OIL as you know, doesn't like mixing with water, therefore, unless it has a suitable emulsifier to help it disperse properly to MIX with water, your not going to be a happy grower. Cheap stuff isn't worth it , usually . The PCO is emulsified to mix with water and works like a charm. I have used OTHER substances without the proper emulsifier, and well. . . . .. lets just say it pays to get the proper materials.

Elite Nugz said:

Do you know if the bottles you used were exposed to high temperatures, or had been sitting for a while?

When I spoke to the rep, they pushed the issue of the bottle being fresh and not exposed to extreme temps.

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I kept them stored properly once they got here, but, I cannot control what happens PRIOR to my doorstep.
once again, I am glad you had good results, but beware of the aphid pop. bounce back. I have thought they were GONE so many times, until, FINALLY, I used the right products

I ordered some nematodes last summer and was watching the door like a hawk to avoid sun warm-up after delivery. Checking the door every hour or two. Sure enough, there they were, my nematodes, freshly delivered , baking in the morning sun at the doorstep. Plus, again, with my outbreak, they were almost a mood point. I can go on and on with what I have tried, but I know what works

I had good luck with Botanigard and nematodes last crop. Plants were totally healthy till harvest. The first treatment with Bot. was a 30 minute soak, then I just watered to runoff with it about every 10 days. I got it from a source that has fresh product. http://www.growninmyownbackyard.com/BotaniGard.html

The key is to knock back their population first with something of your choice. Last crop I knocked them back at flip, then used Bot. as above, with 2 apps of todes in overwhelming numbers. I never buy todes locally anymore. Ten days in the fridge and their numbers will have declined and the living ones will be getting in bad shape. I order them by 2nd day, and keep close watch for delivery, apply right away. Use overwhelming numbers. Here are 2 good sources that ship them in insulated containers with a freeze pak.
http://www.buglogical.com/
http://www.naturescontrol.com/

Use the mixture of Heterorhabditis and Steinernema carpocapsae.

I'm getting good results with using 20 ml each of OGBioWar Root and Foliar mixed. I'm watering with this mix every other week. Jury's still out, but it's lookin good so far. OGBW has the fungus in Bot. and the one in Met 52. Good luck. -granger

I have them pretty bad at the moment. I am probably 2 weeks from harvest and will be shutting down all growing for the summer. What would you guys recommend to eradicate them completely with no threat of doing any damage to plants? I plan on removing all soil and planting out all my clones. Bleach and bombs will be in the mix maybe the cedar oil that was mentioned, is there anything else that will deal a solid death blow to the bastards?

I will also be getting rid of most of my house plants and spraying some high octane pesticide on the outside of my garage (where my grow is located). Any advice is appreciated.

Peace,
SM

SpiderMite said:

I have them pretty bad at the moment. I am probably 2 weeks from harvest and will be shutting down all growing for the summer. What would you guys recommend to eradicate them completely with no threat of doing any damage to plants? I plan on removing all soil and planting out all my clones. Bleach and bombs will be in the mix maybe the cedar oil that was mentioned, is there anything else that will deal a solid death blow to the bastards?

I will also be getting rid of most of my house plants and spraying some high octane pesticide on the outside of my garage (where my grow is located). Any advice is appreciated.

Peace,
SM

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Sounds drastic! What is it that you have FGs, RAs, both?

Consider this, if the food producers responded like what i often hear, we'd starve.

I have a buddy in the commercial biz and it's all about IPM. Know your enemy, and know that they're always looking to defeat you, but never give up and never think that you will wipe them out of existence. Perhaps some enemies will never be back and others will be at the door consistently. Indoor will have diff pests than outdoors. Diff regions will have diff issues, ect.

What this all means to growers according to a greenhouse manager in the commercial biz is that you can live with the enemy. The goal is to mitigate economic losses. That's done by confirming the pests, understanding their life cycle and interrupting that cycle such that they never do significant damage.

If you have FGs right now, forget for the moment about 100% eradication, although that day may come. Instead focus on what you need to prevent. You need to stop the larvae from eating the root tips of your plants, especially once you get into flower, because if by then you have thousands of larvae eating root tips your buds will finish early resulting in less weight, but still really nice.

You need to make a schedule and follow it that tracks the life cycle of the pest and your plants.

So for FGs the fliers need to lay eggs in your starting media, like coco in a red beer cup. So perhaps you prime the coco with some predatory nematodes so anything that hatches in the coco is quickly attacked. Then at say mid veg you might nuke em with imidicloprid to kill everything and anything that will venture to eat the roots over the next month.
Then after a week or so you may want to do an azamax drench to ensure that anything that flier that may have laid an egg since the larvae that hatched will be less likely to reproduce or "act" normal. That's a mode of axamaz action. Then in a week or so, probably around when in flower by now or real close you go back to the predatory nematodes and or start using bti (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) which can be found in gnatrol and other products.

At this point you need to really pay attentyion to your yellow cards and you should have several in varying locations. If you are still catching many that you may need to consider essential oil (Rosemary!)drenches before adding more bti or nematodes. I save this til flower because rosemary oil really expensive and you can't use imidicloprid in flower. Rosemary it is very effective, so much so that my commercial grower buddy says its better than all other OMRI options. After the drench, if you do it, I'd resume nematodes and/or bti til harvest, unless things are bad and you need more drenches.

One last thing, I think cedar oil is great to spray walls floors top of media ect. But I don't use as drench or spray on plants. So you can buy the cheapest cedar oil if your just using to spray the area. Next, covering the top of media with sand or perhaps something similar seems to effective. I spent a lil more $ than I prefer on gnatnix and I gotta say it does seem to work. But I that' just a quick assessment.

Overall good advice from Medicalmj, except I don't think the todes will fair well if there's much of the imid left in the medium. Timing is important. Good luck. -granger

SpiderMite said:

I have them pretty bad at the moment. I am probably 2 weeks from harvest and will be shutting down all growing for the summer. What would you guys recommend to eradicate them completely with no threat of doing any damage to plants? I plan on removing all soil and planting out all my clones. Bleach and bombs will be in the mix maybe the cedar oil that was mentioned, is there anything else that will deal a solid death blow to the bastards?

I will also be getting rid of most of my house plants and spraying some high octane pesticide on the outside of my garage (where my grow is located). Any advice is appreciated.

Peace,
SM

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It is great to be back in the land of "round door knobs"...sorry, been off the "cannabis grid" for a few months (quick money gig--due diligence audit/engagement)--it is good to be back home!...BTW, Central Europe is nice this time of the year.

Now, assuming you have not identified the source of Root Aphids (as they are not "immaculately conceived" or possess magic-like qualities allowing them to "appear out of no where") then I would do the following:

1. Forget about the plants weeks from harvest--anything you do will make the herb taste like shit. Accept the diminished harvest and move on.
2. Clean everything...then a week later, clean everything again. Steam is a safe weapon to clean the corners in your grow environment; a travel steamer can be had for less than $20.
3. Identify all possible contaminates. For me, it was reusing bamboo stakes (RAs seem to live happily inside bamboo)--even when the stakes were cleaned with soap & water the lil suckers would survive and infect the next plant.
4. Test all your grow medium ingredients for RAs. I did the beer cup test--place each ingredient separately in a beer cup (half full), add water to 50% moisture level, seal cup with lid, and place in veg or warm area. After 14 days, inspect the cup contents with 45x or better lupe or other magnifier.
5. Develop an IPM routine. Organically the best thing for combating RAs is Mycotrol (organic version of Botanigard). http://www.bioworksbiocontrol.com/products/mycotrol-o.php...but the process/routine can both be costly and time consuming. As for chemicals...lots of different options but I would gravitate to one that has a very very short half-life. Imidacloprid has a half-life that is measured in hundreds of days and is not 100% effective (this happens after some other grower treated his plants with imidacloprid--but not all RAs were killed...as a result, those survivor RAs developed a resistance of sorts and passed that trait to their offspring...which are now in your garden--aka insecticide resistance). I posted my Orthene-Riptide recipe (tiny half-life) and routine in this thread that blessed many a grower with 100% RA annihilation--but for some, Orthene seems to be ph sensitive at 2.9 grams per gallon ratio. Perhaps cutting that it in half (1.5 grams per gallon) and doing a test before drenching the complete crop would be the path I would take. It should work outdoors...in theory but I grow indoors with a custom grow medium.
6. What does not work--neem oil, Gnatrol/Mosquito Bits-Dunks/BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensi), Diatomacious Earth, drenches/dunks/rootball soakings of: Potassium Salts of Fatty Acids, Spectracide Triazicde Insect Killer Once & Done (Gamma-Cyhalothrin), Ortho Bug B Gon Max Lawn & Garden Insect Killer (Bifenthrin), Seven Concentrate Bug Killer (Carbaryl), Spinosad concentrate (mixture of spinosyn A & D), and Pyrethrins (as a single ingredient--both the organic and synthetic varieties)...are a few things that have little to zero effect on RAs. I tried them and so have others--and the consensus seems to be nada...don't waste your time/money.
7. Most importantly--develop a routine that limits contamination. Saucers were one of my weaknesses for contamination. I hand water and if a particular saucer had too much run off--then I would dump the saucer...but I was Cheap Charlie and wanted to reuse the dirty saucer. My old routine of placing each container in a "temporary saucer" while I dumped the old saucer allowed the RAs to congregate in the "temporary saucer" and then jump onto the next container...guaranteeing all my plants would eventually have RAs. So now I lift the container, let the runoff drip in the old saucer, then place the container in a "new clean saucer". No more Cheap Charlie with the "temporary saucer" that guarantees cross contamination. Also--examine your transplanting routine--can "infected soil" from one plant possibly infect another? I changed how I transplant as well.

Once upon a time, I had RAs...but don't have them now, and it has been years since I treated my plants with the Orthene-Riptide cocktail...I also stopped doing all preventive measures to combat RAs about a year and half ago--maybe 2 years--(I do nothing now...and life is grand without RAs!). BTW, I never discovered the source of my infestation nor exactly found where my RAs came from.

Hope this helps!

I've used Eclipse's RA method and I've been RA free since early January!!!! I still couldn't believe they were gone for months after treating lol but I haven't seen any traces of evidence ...no webbing in the soil, crawlers after heavy water, and my sticky cards are pretty damn clear. Thanks for the remedy bro ....I battled those bastards for so long before using the combo and nothing was getting the job done ......I now maintain my grow with Cap's Foliar pack!!

I don't visit peeps gardens anymore and I don't let them in mine ....and most importantly, I won't be taking in anymore cuts no matter who it's from or how bad I've wanted the plant, it's too f'ing risky nowadays! I have plenty of beans to go thru so my new goal is to search them till I find that next big thing!!

Btw RAs, broad mites, and other crop destroyers are in MI now! Never had to deal with any type of pest till we became a medical state in 2008. (the small cost you gotta pay when you grow in a med state )

I followed eclipse420's advice and it took care of the problems I was having with RA's

My plants suffered a bit from the treatment but I now have things going strong again. My flowers are actually swelling like they used to. Thanks eclipse.

nice seeing some of you having success.

my infestation came back on my few coco plants after they had rooted into their 1gal flowering containers. those are the only ones still in plastic pots.
after the roots poured out of the holes it was lunchtime again and i spotted lots of red crabs withing 2 days after. no flyers or adults on the stems though

I decided not to use any pesticide until i finished both lamps and saving what's worth to save, then do a sweep and reset in october starting from seed again.

on these pots i did a hot water treatment only around the drains holes. so basically putting them into the bathtub and flooding for up to 5cm high with ~60°C water for 15-20mins while showering them with neem (3ml/l) twice.
the idea was to kill everything near the holes, roots too. plants looked healthy enough to take it and they did, afterwards I flushed with a 2/3 strengh feeding and placed them back under the the sun. continuing with my regular scedule since now

i can't await to close the garden and get some decent rest from all this
for all you other deciples, I wish you all the best!
may the force be with you

About to Kontos my whole garden again, fuckers just keep coming back. Hoping spinosad and Caps foliar will be good follow up treatment.

Anyone try those Spectracide Triazicide granules? looks like an easy way to fuck em up just top dress and water in. Testing high and low doeses on some male plants before I go widespread with it.

Tried both Bifenthrin and Gamma-Cyhalothrin in granule and liquid flavors (these were the two popular granule insecticides available at Home Depot when I did my RA battle--the later one I believe is Spectracide Triazicide). It was effective but not the best and I did not like the half-life....but more importantly the smoke report was bad. Since granule variety of insecticides will continuously release their active ingredient I suspected the cannabis plant was sponging/absorbing all the chems and made the smoke super harsh and produced "dark ash". My "stoner logic" was--once I killed the RAs, why continue to release poisons?

You are very smart in testing a few before treating all your plants.

Cheers!