Things going wrong quickly

T5GrowerNow · Nov 24, 2007

My veg room has some real issues. I keep it clean. I use the same method to grow from seed to bag. Only difference on this grow, 5 gallon instead of three gallon. Normally I use FFOP. THis time, I added a couple of handfuls of Happy Frog per container.

Things started out normal enough. Up to about 45 days and things look good. They got a neem spraying like I always do and the next day, I noticed 2 of the superskunk with real yellow leaves. Tried to see if a water issue but got worse. A friend suggested flushing one of them with epson salts in water to see if an improvement. Avg temp 79f and 40% hum. Can't say but I think the epson salt may have helped. But...

I have other plants going yellow and now I see spotting on the yellow leaves.

This is on a cheese clone and I would like to fix this asap

The worst of the bunch

Here are the spots. Rust? Fungus?

More of that spotting and yellow on Super Skunk

This is a Hawaiian that is just going downhill. Crispy yellow leaf on bottom

I would appreciate any suggestions. Never had anything like this before.

HeadyPete · Nov 24, 2007

Looks like lockout. What's the ph of your water, nute solution and runoff?

What kind of water are you using? I've heard of cities softening the water at certain times and the ph gets thrown off, even if it was good before.

What are you feeding?

Better yet, please fill out this form and wait behind the red line.....

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? (percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

T5GrowerNow · Nov 24, 2007

SOIL: Fox Farm Ocean Forest with a handful of Happy Frog
What STRAIN are you growing? Super Skunk and Hawaii x Shunk1
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)seed
What is the age of your plants?51 days
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?vegetative
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)just a straight up grow, i dont train or anything advancedWhat size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)5 gallon grow bagsWhat substrate/medium are you using? (percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)whatever is in FFOF
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* So far I have given no nutrients.
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? I usually start General Hydroponics after 40 days (but I am holding back due to problems) so nothing in nuets. The total TDS of water is 140mg/lWhat is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.8What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? UltraBasic Pen
How often are you watering? usually every 3d based on the meter reading
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? Depending on stuff in Fox Farm afraid to do anythingWhat size bulb are you using?8 t-5 vho tek 48What is the distance to the canopy? 6 inches avg
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) at present 50%
What is the canopy temperature? At present 79f
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) +/- 15degreesWhat is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) up to 140
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?yesIs the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist at best but gets to 2 on the meter by water dayIs your water HARD or SOFT?6 Grains moderately hard
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?One clone the rest from seedHave any pest chemicals been used? The rooms are cleaned with bleach and water then sprayed with an Ortho product before the grow session. Room is kept clean. Safer traps no pests so far. Safer spray if critters are sited. But no signs of critters. In veg I spray with Neem just to be sure every 14 days. If so what and when? Nothing during grow session except neem oil.Are plant's infected with pest's? I can't see anysigns of pests with the micro lens.

Current cycle 18 hours on. Grown from seed in CoCo soil, transplanted to growbags at about 30 days.

Thanks very much for your help.

MynameStitch · Nov 24, 2007

No, that is not a fungus... looks like nitrogen, the first pic looks like manganese or something..... nitrogen does not have that color of spots only manganese has spotty like and yellowing leaves like that; but it's so rare to get in the first place so it's to hard to say if that is what it is unill we know more information about your grow..... pics do not tell a whole story, need pics and information.
But it does look like you are most definatly having lockout issues; if it was a common nitrogen issue you would not have spotting like you do; there would just be healthy growths with yellowing leaves......

WHat lighting are you using? Looks like it's not close enough for a few of them, they are very tall stretchy and lanky from them stretching up to the light to get closer to it.

Guest · Nov 24, 2007

hey,
the Hawaiian definitely looks like nitrogen def, i have heard of many people having lockout problems with happy frog so if it was added within the last 3 weeks i would suggest you thoroughly flush all plants and foliar feed a weak N formula for the hawaiian + resume 1/3 to 1/2 strength feeding for all afterwards
and if it was added over a month ago then your girls are probably hungry .
peace

MynameStitch · Nov 24, 2007

Using pots that size for the plant size to just let them root it so you will not have to transplant not only contributes to overwatering, but it also contributes to stunted growth. Cannabis hits growth spurts when it roots 75% of it's pot, by delaying this in bigger pots/bags you have them grow much slower... giving them the proper pot size is very important and is mostly over looked a lot.

Depending on stuff in Fox Farm afraid to do anything

You mean you are not feeding?

That is why your plants are stretchy, you do not have them close enough to those T5's
you can have them very close to them without burning them...... propping them up on blocks to get them very close to the light is recommended next time to avoid the tall lanky plants you have.

When you switch over from soiless to soil mixtures, like coco to soil you have a mixture of pH's.

You ph is fine right now... but I think you have a problem with not feeding them and they are hungry.....

you did not list what nutrients you used and if at all you used any of them.

If you are scared in using them because you are going to burn them, I feel ya, but do not listen to the back of the bottle for feedings.... they will burn your plants if you do that.

How are you testing your ph? Pen? Strips? Meters?

So far I have given no nutrients.

There is your issue, they need food man, you got all kinds of problems going on.
How long have they been in this mixture?

Get some food in them, what kinds of nutrients do you have access too?
Hydro shop> garden shop? You have any nutrients right now?

You have nitrogen and phosphorus deficiencies right now.. they need fed and as long as your pH is accurate there is no lock out, you just need to feed them every week from now on, unless you just transplanted them into fresh soil, but even then you will still need to feed them, because they are starving and will use those nutrients up in the soil quickly....

T5GrowerNow · Nov 24, 2007

I learn so much. Fox Farm was so bullet proof, now I will evaluate. Ok I am taking this all in. Fox Farm says nothing needed for thirty days and they have been in the FF about that long. I am rethinking FF for sure and will start feeding. Foliar feeding ok. I can feed and see what changes. Wonder if the Happy Frog plays a role.

Your right about the bags. I usually do with one size potting and then into 3 gallon grows. A friend had a bunch of 5 gallons and said just use them. Didnt think that one out. So would not be my first choice in future.

SO I will get to work and post pictures let you know how I am doing. Thanks very very much.

I was really freaked by the Cheese leaves. I really want that Cheese to make it.

Any suggestions welcome but I have a good start now.

MynameStitch · Nov 24, 2007

Problem is, I have seen more problems with FF soil than any other soil..... happy frog is going the same way, it seems some strains do not like the mixture, so it's a hit or miss unless you know the strain can grow in that kind of soil.

Mostly pH plays a role with these soils.....
Well for one your leaves that are yellow will not recover after it turns necrotic ( tanish brown) the leaves will either drop or it will keep them depending on how much of the leaves are yellow, if more green than yellow it will keep it and the yellow part will turn necrotic.

So I would not remove any dead leaves right now unless it's about to go to flowering and you want to remove small branches and lower leaves to increase yield.
So first find out what feeding nutrients you want to use, you want a complete set of NPK with micronutrients...... right now you can use grow nutrients with micronutrients there are so many different kinds which is why I first asked if you have access to a hydro shop, since you use FFOF and Happy frog I am sure you do, because they are only sold at hydro shops.

T5GrowerNow · Nov 24, 2007

Thanks again. Side note: The local hardware store sells Fox Farm. The closest hydro shop is twice the price. Hydro guy says that ACE buys in some much bulk they can sell $8 a bag.
The Hydro guy fixed me up with General Hydroponics line of nuets. He checked my pH pen against his buffer and I am calibrated ok. Gave me tons to read.

Hydro dude says to start with 50% of what formula says and watch.

Live and learn. I will get some more pictures up. Thanks for all the help.

HeadyPete · Nov 24, 2007

Don't stress, pot is very resilient and you really have to abuse them for them not to make it. If you correct the problems I guarantee your plants will recover and flourish....even the Cheese.

Definitely get in there and trim off the dead undergrowth and any tiny branches up to a couple nodes from the bottom. This doesn't produce good bud and cuts down on circulation.

They are quite small for 45 days. Feed them and they will improve in a couple days. Watch the top/new growth for nice deep green. Watch overall healthy green leaves for a little tip burn. This means you are feeding optimum strength for that growth phase.

All strains and even different phenos (different seeds of the same strain) of the same strain have differing requirements. You really need to learn each individual plant to know what to feed and when. After you get some experience you will be able to dial in a feeding program for any strain you get. The garden environment also plays a huge role. A plant under T5 will use less ferts than an identical clone under 600 hps. Light energy, temps, ventilation will all affect your feeding schedule. Everything is interconnected.

That's life.

HeadyPete · Nov 24, 2007

Hydro dude knows of what he speaks

Problem is the more peeps go to ACE, the more likely hydro guy goes out of business and one dude you should support is Hydro Dude.

Chem nutes like GH are more potent than organics like BioBizz so go easy until you see how your plants like it. Chem nutes also act fast compared to organics. Usually there is a lag of a week or so before the organic fert you applied becomes available for the plant to use.

HeadyPete · Nov 24, 2007

Stitch says leave the dead stuff, I say cut it out, who's right?

Whaddya say, Stitch?

T5GrowerNow · Nov 27, 2007

Well one problem discovered. The moisture meter WAS BROKEN. I split the difference. I removed some fan leaves that were just dead, figured that they were no longer contributing to plant growth. Another problem. The 5 gallon bags I got from a different supplier look like the 3 gallons I am used to BUT THEY DRAIN DIFFERENT. Pockets of wet. So I modifed that. Temp about 79 and humidity about 35.

I am not giving them anything until the soil gets dry. What do you think about spraying some nuets of them?? I am interested in seeing if I can get some of those leaves to green up on some of the plants. On others, I am sure they were just too wet and that caused the yellowing so nothing until the dry up I would think.

The three little girls seem to be just locked up in terms of new growth but the others are growing. I will post pictures as soon as possible. Thanks for helping, I have been under the weather but will get updated pictures so you can see how things are doing.

Thanks again. This has been a crazy week

Sharp_Pain · Nov 27, 2007

Quote:
("I am not giving them anything until the soil gets dry. What do you think about spraying some nuets of them?? I am interested in seeing if I can get some of those leaves to green up on some of the plants. On others, I am sure they were just too wet and that caused the yellowing so nothing until the dry up I would think. ")

Have you been spraying at all on these plants? If so that may be your issue. Spraying even plain RO water can **** up root development as the plant does not grow roots since it's getting needed moisture from the spraying.

I never spray any of my plants except for when I apply my Dutch Masters Liquid Light

Best of Luck

MynameStitch · Nov 27, 2007

REason why I say do not remove them if there is still color to them, I have noticed the plants will drop them when they do not need them anymore, even in veg not just flower....

If you cut off the leaves when the plant is not ready to drop it, it will start working on the other leaves that were normal, left over nutrients in the fan leaves are gone once you remove the bad ones..... so if there is still some green left do not remove it... if it's hard to remove, do not remove it, even if there is NO green left... let the plant drop it naturally ime.

DIGITALHIPPY · Nov 27, 2007

MynameStitch said:
REason why I say do not remove them if there is still color to them, I have noticed the plants will drop them when they do not need them anymore, even in veg not just flower....

If you cut off the leaves when the plant is not ready to drop it, it will start working on the other leaves that were normal, left over nutrients in the fan leaves are gone once you remove the bad ones..... so if there is still some green left do not remove it... if it's hard to remove, do not remove it, even if there is NO green left... let the plant drop it naturally ime.

indepth advice.

i didnt think it was safe to use 3 part in soil though.

i never had ffof problems before, that wernt MY FAULT

haha 8$... my hydroguy charges 16... never even seen ffof at a non hydro store. ive been to ace. by chance this is tap water your using, do u know the PPM of it ?

MynameStitch · Nov 27, 2007

No, from what I heard and read you can use it in soil....... correct me if I am wrong though; but I think I remember right and it's ok to use it, but you gotta mix it right.

T5GrowerNow · Nov 27, 2007

No I have not sprayed anything on them. Some have suggested it. I am taking new pictures first light tomorrow and you cans can evaluate my progress. I have trimmed some, I have fixed the drainage, I have fixed the light. I have a new moisture meter. So I will take some pictures when the lights come back on.

scegy · Nov 27, 2007

dude, i had the SAME symptoms and it turned out to be excessive MgSO4 aka Epsom salts ---> A friend suggested flushing one of them with epson salts in water to see if an improvement

look at my leafe in early stage of this def.

looks pretty similar to your rust patches huh?

I'd say flush with some RO or distilled water and add a lil N if that yellowing is mainly on the lower leaves.

p.s. don't add that N, they don't need it after another look at them, enough nutes, flush em and point a fan blowing on the soil surface to help em evaporate that excessive moist!

using FF soil, means that it probably already contains enough of what u gave additionally

my thoughts

:wave:

MynameStitch · Nov 27, 2007

THey do not need any nutrients? Thats nuts scegy, first off he rarely fed them, so if he rarely fed them how can there be to much if his plants have been in the mixture for a while?

Another thing, he already was over watering which also locks out nitrogen from soggy soils. So if he flushes he will not only contribute MORE to over watering; but he will also be flushing out any left over nutrients that the plant needs, because there already is small amounts in there from him not feeding. So flushing=bad

He is not over feeding he is starving his plants scegy, and he has over watered them too, so flushing will make everything worse!

Things going wrong quickly

Member

Take Five...

Member

Dr. Doolittle

Guest

Dr. Doolittle

Member

Dr. Doolittle

Member

Take Five...

Take Five...

Take Five...

Member

Member

Dr. Doolittle

Active member

Dr. Doolittle

Member

Active member

Dr. Doolittle