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Human Urine as a Fertilizer source...(fyi)

I.M. Boggled

Certified Bloomin' Idiot
Veteran
I saw where a member here mentioned how he used urine as a fertilizer source. I found that strangely interesting...so went looking and and this is what I found out...presented for your information.

[This first article is a well researched piece by a person named BuddyNugs from another cannabis site.]

Can I use My Urine as a Fertilizer?

Sure you can. In fact Sweden is now testing a full scale urine ‘recycling’ program. Among their findings they have discovered that urine is a complete fertilizer for farm use, lowers the environmental impact of wastewater, improves recirculation of the 3 main nutrients, and that the hygienic risks are negligible if handled properly. Nature has been making use of urine for centuries before humans had even mastered the art of agriculture. Animal wastes contain nutrients that plants needs, and in return they provide us with nutrients we need. It is a circle that has been broken only in recent years, but before you go using your pots as a urinal you will need to be aware of how to use your urine. DO NOT PEE DIRECTLY ON OR AROUND YOUR PLANTS. You will burn them. The following will detail everything that you need to know to be successful.

Use in Soil
Pure concentrated urine will burn your plants; it must first be diluted with water. Typically a ratio of 1 part urine to 10 parts water is effective. Some have gotten away with a slightly higher ratio on unusually hungry girls. It is recommended that you do not exceed 1:10, even though a nutrient burn with urine is rare, the smell can be unpleasant, and salts will build quickly, at higher concentrations. For younger plants start with a ratio of 1:20-1:30 and work your way up. As always do not fertilize germinating seedlings. Wait until the cotyledons (little round leaves) have fallen off before beginning any fertilizer regiment. Also it is not needed every water, every other or every third is sufficient. Let your plant do the talking, if she is a nice dark green then lay off a little, use a weaker solution and lower frequency, if she is getting on the yellow side then step up the strength a bit. Note: Urine can have a high salt content, depending upon your diet. I recommend that when you water with plain water, you allow some run off (approximately 1/8-1/4 volume of your pot) and toss it, this should rid your soil of excess salts.

Use in Hydro
About 8 ounces (1cup) for every 3 gall or reservoir water has been effective (thanks foto) but you should adjust according to your conditions, plant needs, and smell issues. The nitrogen in urine (ammonia and urea) must first be consumed by bacteria as food. The bacteria then store the nitrogen in the bacterial protoplasm. As the Bacteria die, they liberate the stored nitrogen as nitrate, sort of like a time release capsule, to be taken up by the plants. In soil this is no problem but in hydro setups there may not be enough bacteria culture to breakdown the urea and ammonia. Therefore it will be a good idea to drip your Res water through a porous material that can support a bacteria culture such as lava rocks, ceramic bio filter material, foam, sponge. It is up to you; it does not need to be fancy just able to support beneficial bacteria. This step may not be required if your root mass is large enough or if you have a trickle system through a porous medium like rockwool or coco. To get a good start on your bacteria culture you can get some bio-filter booster liquid from any aquarium shop. This liquid contains "good" bacteria that will help you develop a thriving population use as directed (usually a few drops per gal.)

Fermented or Fresh (By Klompen)
Traditionally, urine was kept in a garden in a large barrel. Sweet smellnig flowers were typically planted around this barrel to mask any odors. This fermentation does have some great benefits, such as breaking down the urea into more useable amoniates. Also, it has the benefit of allowing the salts to settle out of it to a large degree. This settling of the salt does take some micronutes out as some of them bind to the salt, but it's a minimal loss. The odor profile of the urine is changed quite a bit by the fermenting process as well. It is not a better smell, but instead a "richer" smell.

There are downsides. Chief downside is the fact that you must leave a container of urine sitting around. Guests don't always like finding out what you've got sitting in that mysterious bottle. As mentioned above, a small amount of micronutes are lost from settling. You will also lose a bit of the urine at the bottom of the bottle because it has the settled substances in higher amounts. One other downside is that you will need to have two containers ideally, since you will not want to be putting fresh urine into a bottle full of fermented urine.

Nutrient Levels (approximation, will vary according to diet)
Alanine, total ..... 38 mg/day
Arginine, total ..... 32 mg/day
Ascorbic acid ..... 30 mg/day
Allantoin ..... 12 mg/day
Amino acids, total ..... 2.1 g/day
Bicarbonate ..... 140 mg/day
Biotin ..... 35 mg/day
Calcium ..... 23 mg/day
Creatinine ..... 1.4 mg/day
Cystine ..... 120 mg/day
Dopamine ..... 0.40 mg/day
Epinephrine ..... 0.01 mg/day
Folic acid ..... 4 mg/day
Glucose ..... 100 mg/day
Glutamic acid ..... 308 mg/day
Glycine ..... 455 mg/day
Inositol ..... 14 mg/day
Iodine ..... 0.25 mg/day
Iron ..... 0.5 mg/day
Lysine, total ..... 56 mg/day
Magnesium ..... 100 mg/day
Manganese ..... 0.5 mg/day
Methionine, total ..... 10 mg/day
Nitrogen, total ..... 15 g/day
Ornithine ..... 10 mg/day
Pantothenic acid ..... 3 mg/day
Phenylalanine ..... 21 mg/day
Phosphorus, organic ..... 9 mg/day
Potassium ..... 2.5 mg/day
Proteins, total ..... 5 mg/day
Riboflavin ..... 0.9 mg/day
Tryptophan, total ..... 28 mg/day
Tyrosine, total ..... 50 mg/day
Urea ..... 24.5 mg/day
Vitamin B6 ..... 100 mg/day
Vitamin B12 ..... 0.03 mg/day
Zinc ..... 1.4 mg/day

approx 2 liters is excreted /day.

Human urine is a great source of auxin, in fact one of the most potent auxins can be found in human urine; indol-3-acetic acid or IAA. Among many things auxin is known to stimulate flower growth, promote ethylene production, and stimulate root growth.

I have gone though an entire grow using urine without any deficiencies, but many feel that during flowering your phosphorus levels are too low. If you desire, a bloom fertilizer may be used in tandem during the flowering phase.
A tea made with the Russian comphry plant (3.6-1-10.6) is an excellent organic bloom fertilizer for those of us who do not wish to use chemicals at any step. Also a tea of bone meal, or bone meal in your soil mix is probably the best way to add Phosphorus.

In addition I would, and have, cut back on the amout of urine used in the flower period (both frequency and consentration). There is some evidence that Nitrogen in excess will inhibit flower growth, and increase your 12/12 time.

Your body can only absorb about 10-15% of a multivitamin/mineral pill the rest is flushed out with your urine. Taking a multivitamin/mineral about 3 hours before your urine collection can give you many vital micro nutrients.

A balanced and healthy diet means balanced and healthy urine. Keep fit and eat well and you should have nutrient rich urine and happy plants.

PH
The PH value for human urine can range anywhere from 5 and 8.5 but most often is found between 5.5 and 7.5 in healthy individuals with a balanced diet. A value of 6 is average. High protein diets can lower PH (more acidic) and Vegetarian diets raise PH values (more alkaline). Urinary infection will increase PH value. Test your PH and lower it (coffee, lemon juice, or vinegar are great organic PH downs) if any higher that 6, especially if in a hydro system, or increase your protein consumption. If the soil you are using is fairly acidic, like peat moss you will want to make sure you are not dropping it too low with acidic urine; dolomite lime can help you buffer this up, or increase your vegetable intake and lower your protein.

Pro's

It Works
Tried and true. In my (and a few others) opinion it works as good as commercial fertilizers when used properly. A side by side clone to clone test has not yet been done (to my knowledge), but there is no question that urine produces healthy, frosty, dank nugs, as good as anything out there.

Cheap
You can't beat free can you? Not likely. Weather you are growing for pleasure or profit saving money is something that I think we all desire. If you have no problem with spending the money, then go right ahead. Call it ghetto if you want, I call it natures gift, and I intend to make the best of it.

Available
It’s like fertilizer on tap. No hasty visits to the hydro/garden shop. No “I’ll have to do without for a while”. It’s always there when you need it.

Environmentally friendly
Many of us would like to preserve the earth. Well organic fertilizers are the way to go if this is part of your ethos. Chemical fertilizers are produced from petroleum products, natural gas, and coal. Minerals are made more soluble with acids. After the compounds are used by the plant the contaminants left over in the soil can become poisonous and over time can leave the land depleted and ‘dead’. Using organic fertilizers closes a cycle of life that has existed for millennia. We feed the plants and they feed us, much like the oxygen and carbon dioxide cycle.

Compost
Urine in your compost pile is probably the best way to get extra Nitrogen into your mix.

Con's

Eww factor
If you are disgusted by this then maybe you should stick to chemical fertilizers. No matter how many times I tell people that urine is sterile in the bladder, and is only dangerous if compromised by fecease or other pathogen carrying substances, some just cannot get over it. People also believe that the urine will somehow end up being ‘smoked’ yet they have no qualms about ‘smoking’ the chemicals or other organic ferts. All fertilizers are broken down by the plant, used in chemical reactions and changed. There is no way that you will be 'smoking' your fertalizers, whatever you use, as long as you aren’t foliar spraying in flower, but then you wouldn’t do that with fish emulsion or chemicals now would you?

Salt content
Human urine will contain various salts. Depending on diet your urine can contain up a max of 2.2% salt, this is because the human kidney cannot concentrate salts to greater than 2.2%. On average salt content will be about 30g/L Total dissolved solids constitute about 5% of urine volume. As previously stated it will be to your benefit to allow some run off when watering and toss it, this will rid your soil of excess salts.

Infections and parasites
Hygienic risks are negligible, unless the urine comes in contact with pathogens after leaving the body. The urine of a healthy person is sterile in the bladder. If you have a urinary tract, or kidney infection your urine will contain bacteria that can infect others. It is quite impossible for the infection to be passed through the plant, bud or smoke. If you are sick the majority of pathogens that can transmit disease will die within 24 hours of leaving the body. Infections will increase both your salt content and PH values, and can contain bacteria that consume nitrates.

Smell
Urine does have a distinctive unpleasant odor. If you mix it properly (1:10-20) then there should be no problems. I have only ever had a smell issue when I mixed it entirely too strong. If you have ever used fish emulsion, blood meal, or guano/manure you should be used to offensive odors and should not have a problem using urine.

Imprecise
Urine fertilizing is not an exact science. Exact nutrient levels and concentrations cannot be accurately established without the proper equipment. Notwithstanding some trial and error is necessary in every fertilizer regiment. Certain strains can have differing tolerances, different growing conditions and methods vary in their ability to deliver nutrients reliably.
------------------------

Thanks...everyone that has kept an open mind on this subject.


http://www.geocities.com/impatients...dFertilizer.htm
(General info)

http://www.liquidgoldbook.com/
(General info, great book)

www.plant-hormones.info/auxins.htm+auxin+urine&hl=en(auxins)

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/...5416013761.html
(Cheap ferts)

http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/...n/excretion.htm
(salt content)

http://www.craigmedical.com/urinalysis_techs.htm
(ph)

www.iees.ch/EcoEng011/downloads/EcoEng011_F2.pdf
(Swedish findings)

http://www.mst.dk/project/NyViden/2001/11040000.htm
(characterization of urine)

http://www.anarac.com/fertilizersewage_sludge.htm
(chem. ferts)

http://www.iees.ch/EcoEng011/EcoEng011_F2.html
(gen info/ hygenic risks)

http://www.all-natural.com/urine.html
(nutes found in urine)

......................................................................................................
And the second article is:
Free Urea Based Fertilizer
byRWilliams

Human urine makes an excellent high nitrogen liquid fertiliser for most plants. Dilute it 10 to 1 and pour it over and or round fast growing plants once a week;

According to some studies, human waste can be an even more effective fertilizer than animal manure.

Urine...,can be applied to field crops without treatment because it is generally sterile. By the way "fresh urine" does not contain any bacteria,

Human urine can be used as an alternative to chemical fertilizer to reduce pollution in air, water and soil and help avoid or control other environmental hazards which surface due to the use of chemical fertilizer, Human urine contains nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium at a much higher ratio than in commercial fertilizers and is environmentally safe to use.

If you want to use urine to fertilize your gardens, keep in mind that when urea becomes ammonia, it also becomes volatile and part of it strips into the air. Both ammonia and nitrates are also very soluble and if not picked up by plant's root systems can enter groundwater with the irrigation water. So it would be best to keep gardens moist but not over watered, but these are similar problems faced by people who use other forms of fertilizers.

Problems urine causes

Urine is the largest contributor of nutrients to waste water, estimated as 50% of phosphorus and 80% of nitrogen.

Advantages of Urine Fertilizer
One advantage in using urine, as a fertilizer is that much of the urine is available in ideal chemical forms: nitrogen is in the form of urea (ammonia/ammonium which is present at concentrations of approximately 3.5 g/l), phosphorus as superphosphate and potassium as an ion.
Urine is almost free from heavy metals - for example, cadmium - because even if we ingest them, they will tend to bind to the liver and kidneys, making the urine much lower in such contaminants than commercial fertilizers.

Urine

Carbon
11-17%

Nitrogen
15-19%

Calcium
4-6%

Potassium
3-5%

Phosphorus
2-5%


Urea outside the body quickly becomes ammonia and will be oxidized by special bacteria (called nitrifiers) into nitrates. All these 'reactive' nitrogen sources can be used to form amino groups for new amino acids, thus then being made into proteins. So make other steps to encourage the soil life in your garden, eg things lie mulching etc.

Reduces your gardening costs, because of less reliance on buying chemical fertilizers.


Uses

Probably best used for non-edible plants, green manure crops and fruit orchards, though there is some usage being noted for edible crops. Apply in under fruiting plants, not onto foliage and fruits.

In a Hydroponics set-up, use it diluted, probably at a ratio of either 10- 20 to 1(water- urine), but keep a close eye on both the ph level and the level of individual salts of the mix in the nutrient storage container.

Dilute urine is also a good additive to a compost pile. Urea also helps break down lignin, accelerating the decomposition of woody materials. On the other hand, urine from somebody with a urinary tract infection or from unknown sources should probably be pasteurised or put in a long-term compost pile (of a year or longer) before it is used on food crops.

When using a urine fertilizer in container plants, a 10:1 (water: urine) ratio can quickly burn plants in medium to small containers because of the salt and urea build-up, even at a 15:1 dilution rate is very strong for the medium to small containers. While at 20:1 you can use it more frequently (once or twice a week) with good benefits and little danger.

Unfermented urine can supposedly be sprayed as a fungicide. Indigenous people in southeastern Mexico claim that the use of urine as a fungicide was a traditional Mayan practice. However there needs to be a lot more research as to the validity or not of their claims.
 
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guineapig

Active member
Veteran
finally a reason to use the "golden showers" emoticon in the chat room......nice read IMB....
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Yep, I've used urine before, saved my first grow.

A buddy was having all kinds of nute problems in his grow. Told him to use urine, 1.5 cups/gallon (1:10 dilutuion). bingo, plants grew like wildfire, no problems. He's staunchly pro-urine now.

Another guy decided to test out it's ease of use, hearing us brag about it. He used it, from seed to bloom, never used anything else. Never had a problem with nute burn or defeciencies. Said it was the easiest hydro run he'd ever done.

Between those two, if you're smoking in my area, you're smoking 'pee weed' as one guy called it when he said he'd never smoke anything grown like that. So, we just didn't tell him when he started smoking it, and he's only raved about the great weed he gets from them.

It's what I'm planning on using in my new growroom, which is ironically going to be in a converted bathroom :) I find the irony delicious. Used to be, every morning, I'd get up, go in there, take a whiz. And now I'm gonna get up every morning, go in there and take a whiz in the res. :D

It's simple.
It's free.
It's damn near foolproof.

What's not to love about using urine as a fert?

Also, I find it interesting in that article, it said that the Nitrogen had to be processed by bacteria. In the thread on OG 'YAY! I Peed on my Plants', (where I first heard about it and got the idea to use it) some folks who understand the chemistry much better than me said the nitrogen in urine is so beneficial because it's already in the best form to be used by plants.

Check out the thread it's at 105 pages, and contains some great info, once you get past the 'Ewwww, that's gross, I'd never smoke pee weed' kids.

http://www.overgrow.com/edge/showth...rpage=15&highlight=Urine as fert&pagenumber=1
 
G

Guest

don't get pissy, but there's a thread on this here that may be of some helP...

don't get pissy, but there's a thread on this here that may be of some helP...

The following is authored by Caprichoso, a mentor here.
Taken from a thread by DrawoH entitled "Urine as Nuits"
computer is messed up sorry, no link, here's my thoughts exactly,
broken down by CAPRICHOSO

CAPRICHOSO said:
Human urine as fertilizer is a bad idea when so many cheap and consistent sources of urea based ferts are available. Yeah, it'll work, but how many of you have a place to keep a smelly ass gallon of piss laying around for a month?

What the links don't tell you:

Urine has to be cured in order to work on plants. This means you have to keep a large container of piss around that you pee in often in order to mitigate the wide disparity between chemical makeup per piss. Your urine content is widely variable. You only need to look at the stream to know this. Bright yellow, clear, dark yellow, it comes is all flavors, but not at once. Some of the factors that effect urine makeup include, food consumed, liquid consumed and amount, how much you sweat, the metabolism you have, frequency of urination, your personal health (infections), etc. Just pouring the random piss into the feedwater would deliver an unknown dose of.....something to your plants. Whereas a dose of $2 a bottle Schultz or Miracle Grow 2-1-1 feritilizer is almost always going to be a dose of 2-1-1 fertilizer. You decide which will be better for your plants.

From what I understand, human feces should not be used as fertilizer in any case.

rabidpeach said:
Rock out with your Cock out

yeah, i lurk too

cj
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
I'll disagree with that, from personal experience. I've used urine as a fert, and ALWAYS used it fresh. First pee in the morning. The plant (at the time, I only had one) absolutely loved it. It saved her from a grave. Was fresh from the source. It had set around for maybe 10 minutes, maybe, at the longest. About as far from month cured as you can get. So, no, your info there is wrong. It does not HAVE to be cured in order to work.

Now, I can see where you're coming from on the varying nute values thing. Content does vary greatly over the course of the day. However, doing like I did, using only the 'first water' probably negated a lot of those issues. Considering that my diet is relatively stable, as are my excercise habits, I'd say that the urine I give after 8 hours of sleep is pretty similar on a day to day basis.

I'll give this caveat - What I'm talking about was based on small grows.Were talking maybe 10 plants at any given time. Obviously, for larger grows, you'd need a much larger amount of urine, and then, yes, I can see the necissity of saving it just based on amount. If you're trying to feed 30+ plants, one 'session' in the morning isn't going to cut it. In that case, since you need to save your 'day' urine, I can see the need for levels to be equalized.
 

Gantz

Smoke weed and prosper
Veteran
you can use it in hydro?
just ad pee in water and that's all? no other nutes?
 

JLP

Active member
Veteran
I guess if you wanted a more consistent urine source you could use dog urine.My dog eats the same exact thing every day.Collecting it might prove to be a bit difficult though.I guess that would depend on your relationship with your dog.

I wonder what you'd get from herbivore urine or perhaps urine from a vegatarian?


Back in the old days they used human and animal urine to produce salt peter which is a base component of black powder.

Interesting subject but I wont be tossing out my Pure Blend Pro anytime soon.

JLP
 

NiteTiger

Tiger, Tiger, burning bright...
Veteran
Gantz said:
you can use it in hydro?
just ad pee in water and that's all? no other nutes?
That's what I'm planning on doing. I've seen others do it, as I mentioned in my first post. Works like a breeze.

If you're interested, pull up a chair in my grow diary when the Canarys go into the new room. They'll be on a urine diet straight throughout.
 

Gantz

Smoke weed and prosper
Veteran
i think i'll just do that. the wonderfuls world of hydroponics and organics have fascinated me for some time now, and this is something that i might also do in the future since i've always wanted to try hydro but i never found hydro nutes. :woohoo:
 
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Harry Gypsna

Dirty hippy Bastard
Veteran
JLP said:
I guess if you wanted a more consistent urine source you could use dog urine.My dog eats the same exact thing every day.Collecting it might prove to be a bit difficult though.I guess that would depend on your relationship with your dog.

JLP

Stoppit JLP, yur killing me man, i nearly fell off the chair laughing at that.....lol....almost as much as when I was searching for growguides and found this so called anarchists guide, which had a chapter on sex with animals... you got me in stitches mate, hehehe
 
G

Guest

urine is great in veg I have not used it flowering yet but I will one day soon, I find it can cause minor N tip burn on older leaves, it is in my experience not very compatible with synthetic urea containing ferts, I'm constantly experimenting ..I added some molasses and efficient microrganisms ( http://www.eminfo.info ) to a bottle of urine to reduce the odor and it made it smell kinda sweet after about 20 days and richer
 

NuggyBuds

Member
Hey, I.M. Boggled

I'm glad that you've re-posted my thread! (yes I am buddynugs, New and improved!)

I accually posted this on Icmag during the overgrow bust.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=21381&highlight=buddynugs

Just a few responces to the above discussion...
1. you do NOT need to 'cure' urine it can be used fresh.
2. Yes it can be used in hydro, I adressed this in the origional thread. Pretty much you will need a medium in your system cycle that can hold a bactiera culture, I suggest a few ideas (see above)

keep growing fellas.
 

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