Can I make my own "ph up" and "ph down"?

The answer is yes. There is nothing magical about store bought ph adjusters. You can find things to adjust your ph around town at a fraction of the cost and make thousands of gallons . Ph is very important.

So you have the perfect nutrient solution (fertilizer plus water). You have all the levels of nutrients just like you like them. When you go to mix the fertilizer plus water and measure ph, you find that your ph is off. In hydroponics and soilless growing you should aim for a ph around 6 or slightly lower. To adjust your ph up or down, you will want to use something that is "neutral" in that it does not add phosphorus, nitrogen, etc... and change your perfect formula.

The best acid to lower ph is probably sulfuric acid or battery acid. It is sometimes called qual. You can get it at the auto parts store. It is very strong. It adds sulfur which plants require alot of (as much as magnesium). It is "neutral" in that it doesn't change your levels of nitrogen, phosphorus, etc...



Another alternative is hydrochloric acid or muriatic acid. It is also strong. You can get this at the hardware store. It is also "neutral" in that it adds chlorine and won't change the composition of the nutrient solution. Plants require very little chlorine to grow so this is the second best choice.

Handling both these acids requires the skill of a surgeon. You must be very careful handling such as avoiding getting them in your eyes. Using glasses like sunglasses and gloves may be wise while pouring the concentrate. Always add the acid to the water, do not add water to the acid which can cause acid to splatter.

If you feel you can't do this safely, get white vinegar from the grocery store. It is nothing more than acetic acid plus water. It is a weak acid and it will require you to use more.



The best thing to raise the ph is probably lye or sodium hydroxide. It is strong. You can get it at the grocery store. One brand name is red devil. This may have been discontinued because people were using it to make meth. Crystal drain opener is another brand to look for that is 100% sodium hydroxide. I found a 2 pound bottle for $8 at Lowes in the plumbing section. Lye is good in that it won't change your nutrient solution. It adds sodium. Sodium in small quantities is beneficial to plants in that it can do the same job (function) as potassium within the plant. Lye is pretty safe because it is a granule. Do still handle with care.



When using sulfuric acid, hydrochloric acid, or lye, you will not need much to change the ph. You might have to make a stock of 1-2 teaspoons (5-10ml) of the acid or base and add to a gallon(3.8L) of water. Then slowly add this stock ounce by ounce (maybe 30 ml at a time) till you get to the ph you desire in your water + fertilizer. Remember how much you use so you can repeat easily.

Acid stock (photo by The Dopest):

References: Hydroponics-a practical guide for the soilless grower by Benton Jones and Water, media, and nutrition for greenhouse crops edited by David Reed

I hope you found this information useful.

Or you could buy pH up or pH from a local shop and be much safer then adding automotive battery acid to your plants it like what 8$ for a bottle of it?

vinegar doesn't work very well, you have to add too much and it seems to break down in a few days and you're right back where you started, only with more dissolved solids in your water. i'm no chemist and havn't bothered to find out why it works like that, it just does.

i applaud you for your research and willingness to think "outside the box," but really it's far more convienient to just purchase pre-made pH adjusters that are safe and convienient to handle, imo.

Thanks but I am not outside the box. Thats why I listed references. Its easy once you get your stock of acid or base in a milk jug. You just pour a couple ounces into your fertilizer plus water and your good to go. Store bought ph up and down is just diluted acid or base to make money.

Wouldn't battery acid really screw things up. I had some get on my skin before and wow that don't feel good. THe stuff you list seems basicly like poison. Have you personally tried these things?

Like I said they are strong and require very little to do the job. Just think like a precise surgeon while handling. Only takes a few seconds to measure out a teaspoon. Maybe try in the morning when you are not stoned to measure things out. (LOL I wake n bake). No big deal just be careful and do not, I repeat do not, try to eat these acids and bases or they will harm you.

Good Post.

As long as i remember correctly PH up(base) that you buy in a hydro shop is just water down Patasium hydroxide or a combo of patasuim hydroxide and potasium carbonate. So the NaOH in Lye is an excellent and cheap alternative. All are Food grade which is even better.

As far as PH down battery acid does work real well. But I'd still rather use Phosphoric Acid. They use a water down food grade in the hydro shops.But I can find an 8lb powder container full of that for around $10 hardware/pond/pool store. Its almost as strong as battery acid so it only takes very little and wont add enough P to have any negitive effect. That and where I live its hard to find sulfuric acid.

But definetly good and over looked alternatives.
DragonX

radium- said:

Or you could buy pH up or pH from a local shop and be much safer then adding automotive battery acid to your plants it like what 8$ for a bottle of it?

sproutco: whats next you gonna tell us how to make our own nutrients? I already know how and I just flushed it whoops

Click to expand...

Or you could just stfu trolling the man's thread until you're qualified to make commentary on the subject. Which you're not.
========================================================
Sproutco: Heyas. I found a recipe by a guy.

Buy a quart from Auto Zone. it's 7.50

Grab a gallon of distilled water.

Pour out a cup. Toss it.

Dry out the measuring cup;

Pour back in, a cup of sulphuric or muriatic acid. Done.

What you just made, is 2% solution. It's less intense than Pepsi at that concentration. It tastes like sweet-tarts or lemon juice. You can spill it, it's safe. That way you don't have to worry.

================================================================
There are 16 cups of water in a gallon. that's a 15-to-one ratio, if you pour out one cup, and pour in one cup of 38% battery acid. The 38% battery acid is 62% distilled water.

that means that an 8 ounce cup of 38% acid is 5 ounces water, 3 ounces acid.
There are 128 ounces in a gallon of water. Minus the eight, add back the 5 of water, three of acid, that leaves you with:
125 ounces of water
3 ounces of acid.

For your 128 ounces. 3/128 gives you the percentage, that the 3 ounces is, of the total 128. It comes out to: .0234375.... that's 2.3%

Call it 2%.

=================================================================
Eurobilly:
In case you think you know as much about it as me or sproutco do, (Which you don't ) why don't you go tell these people that THEY don't know wtf THEY are talking about;

and when THEY come out and pull their formulations, re-write THEIR f.a.q.s, and THEIR Hydroponics Texts which are used to teach millions about horticultural science, and when they take down and re-assign the nutrient solutions on their web sites,

I'll come in here and retract what i say. Till that time, i suggest you hit the books. Because obviously at this point, you're not very knowledgeable. Although it's plain to see you wish you were.

ARGUE WITH THEM:

Maybe you've heard of the world's foremost hydroponic nutrient formulators, who "set the Gold Standard for hydroponic nutrition"

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/faqph.html

Dr. Howard Resch: World acclaimed author on hydroponics. ph.D in agriculture.
Halfway down: pH...
http://www.howardresh.com/Hydroponic-Culture-of-tomatoes.html

Dr. Maynard Murray, whose work is described as "pioneering" "groundbreaking" "expert", "astounding".

http://www.google.com/search?q=dr+maynard+murray

That's ok; he has a ph.D in horticultural studies too, and invented a nutrient system. Before you were born.
http://www.seaagri.com/HydroponicsFormulas.pdf

Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about. Maybe YOU don't.

Lets see what Eco Chem has to say about sulfuric acid as a pH. down component. They've been feeding the family by formulatiing hydroponic nutrients since the 1970's too. Pretty sure they have somebody with a degree hanging around, working the register, or something. Maybe they just don't know as much about it as you:
http://www.ecogrow.com/index.cfm/product/220/mid/25/nid/0/home.html
On the other hand, maybe you're a desperate wannabe who learned the basic jingo spewed by OTHER wannabes and you troll peoples threads trying to sound like you're intelligent.
========================================================
But enough about these amateurs. Let's find out what some educators say about sulfuric acid.
They know way more about it than those clowns at General Hydroponics.
Just like you, right?

Here's the well known Texas A&M Agricultural College's basic hydroponics online lesson, at 'PlantAnswers.c0m'
http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/publications/hydroponics.html


Here's the Department of Horticultural Sciences, Florida Institute of Food and
Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...+sulfuric+hydroponic&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VH030


Here's Purdue University mentioning using Sulfuric acid to acidify hydroponic solutions. Ever heard of Purdue University? They've never heard of you Radium, i'm pretty sure of that.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1990/V1-414.html

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/hort/facilities/greenhouse/hlaTech.shtml


Heres a paper on research on some annual flower from professors at the University of Georgia and Maine:
http://www.hortphys.uga.edu/pubs/HSMS 40(6), PEG-8000 and hydroponic impatiens.pdf

Here's Louisiana State University, whose agriculture department is well known for it's huge acreage and science research:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...c+hydroponics+.edu&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=120

"Diluted nutrient solution may range in pH from 5.8 to 6.0. Use pH near 6.8
for calcareous sand. Use sulfuric acid to lower pH and sodium carbonate to
increase pH."

Let's all hold our breaths and guess: you'd like to see 'their grow' compared to yours. Who are the ph.D and Masters' holders at L.S.U.? No -who are you?

==========================================================
Here's a University in Illinois - highlighting one of their showcase hydroponic businesses somewhere - another group of people who put the bread on the table by understanding hydroponics:
http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1996/ic960224.html

""We test the mixture in the bags daily," Jerry says, "and we use sulfuric acid to keep the pH balance where we want it. We check pH and electrical conductivity. The conductivity tells us the amount of salts in the solution. In all, we use about 50,000 gallons of water a month, and more if it's particularly hot"

Do you use 50,000 gallons a month, or just go dump your 5 gallon bucket once a week, and pour out another dose of "FarmerInAJug"

Maybe if you tried to tell him to pay 8 to 15 dollars a quart and showed him your basement grow he'd just fall over laughing till he had to grab one of those 50,000 gallon a month hydroponic nutrient solution containers. Then suggest you get an education. And some manners.
=================================================================

Do you want me to go on about how THEY know what they're talking about?

Because i can move on and list another 10 or 15 universities and professional hydroponists, who use sulfuric acid if you want me to. I was on page 4 of the search i did. There were 20 something pages. Then, we can move on to all the hydroponic hobbyist sites : 3/4ths down: how to make dilute sulfuric acid.

http://www.home.aone.net.au/~hydroponics/formula.html

This one:
http://www.simplyhydro.com/ph.htm

and about another 25 of them.

I'll just get on with the acid recipe cost analysis


A quart of General Hydroponics pH. down costs 15 bucks give or take.

A quart of sulfuric acid from AutoZone costs 7.50 Half that. but wait. It'll make not one gallon. Four.

So at 2%, which is kind of weak, but makes dosing smaller reservoirs, cloners, etc much easier, you get 16 quarts. If you use R.O. water of your own, cost: 47Cents a quart. Not 15 dollars.

If you use distilled to make each gallon, that's 7.50 plus 4 bucks: That's 11.50 That'll make 4 gallons, which is 16 quarts.

11.50 divided by 16 is 72 Cents a quart.

72 Cents a quart, vs. 15 dollars a quart.

72 cents a quart, or 15 bucks, the choice is pretty clear.

I seriously doubt you know much about a chelate or a sulfate or a nitrate or a phosphate, Radium. I doubt you know much about the Nitrogen Cycle, Phosphate Cycle, Citric Acid Cycle, or Sulfur Cycle.

While i know that Sproutco tries to help people out.

I doubt you know what a dissociation constant is, an equilibrium constant, or a conjugate acid/base relationship looks like and how to tell where one is going to occur.
I also doubt that you know what the maximum buffering capacity of Phosphoric acid is, and what pH. it occurs at, or what pH. it precipitates out of solution at, or what it's likely to precipitate with.

I seriously doubt you have anything but a high school diploma and a big mouth.

I already know what you say conflicts with the foremost experts in the world, and the universities i checked with; much less, the ones i listed who take what you say and dump it into the toilet. Where it belongs.

You talk with too much smarta$$ in your tone to actually know what you're talking about, or be from anywhere but Europe, which is why you'd rather advise people to pay 10 times the money to achieve the same effect.

You probably think growing weed is actually hard. Those who know better -
Know better.

WOW!

If dumping my 5 gallon bucket every week and 'pouring in a dose of 'farmerinajug' will get me healthy plants and fat resin laden nuggets, then I will gladly do it. :wink:

Personally, I usually don't even change my res, just top it off with the correct dose of 'farmerinajug'.

You gave us some damn good info King Maker, but you may want to consider a less hostile approach to present it. :wink:

*waits for vicious personal attack*

-Kingmaker- Any knowledgable grower would clearly purchase pH up or down from a hydro shop instead of making their own!!!!! n00bs don't tell me I'm not qualified and to shut the fuck up either considering you only have 5 posts!! I have not seen any grows by you or sproutco you seem to just read old websites and copy paste the info here... I suggest you go find another homemade chemical growing forum bye bye

King a lot of people are new here and not all on welfare. Most can afford a small bottle of pH up or down and would prefer doing so instead of handling battery acid, I did not once claim you methods would not work but I'm saying its a hell of a lot easier and safer to just buy the premixed solutions. I'm sure we could all make our own windex if we wanted but its easier to just buy the shit in the store.. see where I'm going with this?

I think someones head has disappeared up their own hypocritical asshole.

ph down ,, i just like to use that or vinagar..

I gotta agree with radium on this...my time is worth more money than the couple of bucks I'd save making my own...not that it's bad to know how to do it another way, it's just alot easier to buy it from the hydro shop....plus I don't have to worry about contaminants or possible quality control issues.

yep it's just easier... and safer...

compared to flushing your nutes down the toilet every 2 weeks (which i don't do) buying a thing of pre-made pH up/down is nothing

ph up/down alternatives

ph up/down alternatives

One good alternative to ph down is fulvic acid (and/or humic acid). This is not a "how to cut cost" type of alternative, but these organic acids have many benefits as well as lowering the ph. - strongly recommended espetially if using organics.

Instead of ph down, try using potassium silicate. It raises ph really well at the same time as being an awesome source of silica (which is what it is essentially used for). potassium silicates are hydro silica additive products such as GT Silica, Liquid Silicon, Baricade, etc. - allways follow the manufacturers recommendations and handle with care

These 2 ph adjustment alternatives I use myself and my ph is allways rock solid, infact I dont ever need to adjust ph, but that has a lot to do with other things I use as well as using very pure (0 EC) naturally sourced water (from an aquifer).
I recommend using ph adjustment additives which have other benefitial functions rather than adding a product just as ph up/down.

………….well it just my opinion but if I were you and your going to be sooooo much better off by doing this…..just go out and buy an industrial grad pH up/pH down and you’ll be sooo happy that you did.

i aint skeeeeeered...

wow....

such hostility and trolling for a simple post talking about ph alternatives....

beyond me lol.

peace

ok...what i did, was take 4oz of water from this gallon. i then added straight acid in small amounts until i hit the same pH as my bottle of GH pH Down. then i took that and did the math on a gallon. idk if this is absolutely correct but i will state that my findings were 32ml of acid to 128oz of distilled store bought water. i didnt measure the plain water ph prior to adjustment. i only measured what it took to get the ph to the same as GH. if this works the same(dont see why it wont), then the savings are spectacular. the quart(32oz) of acid was $3.97 at advanced auto and the gal(128oz) of water was $.99 at a gas station. at this rate i can make about 30gals of pH down for $35.

btw my GH pH down was pH'd at 1.3 as was the gallon after 32ml of sulfuric acid added. no water was poured out initially, i used a full 128oz.

Nothing wrong with making your own ph up and down formula's. All the down solutions pretty much are acid and water. I think I would rather use Potassium hydroxide for the ph up rather then lye but ezra really has the best solution if it works out for you I have just started using silica blast for my ph up and I am still looking for other solutions for a ph down because if I can use something besides chemicals that my plant can use anyways I think that's the way to go. But hey sproutco good thread on this topic.


HM