L
larry badiner
not the nutrients themselves.
any thoughts?
any thoughts?
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incorrect npk and supplement ratios are some of the reasons for shitty bud
ADHDGrower
Member
NPK Ratios are not as important as Poeple think they are. Canna Coco is 5-4-3, Canna Cogr Flores is 3-3-7, both work fine on any Coco Medium.
Actually you are correct its not the Nutrients themselves but how Poeple use them in Conjunction with lots of different Additives that they got Suckered into buying.
Understanding basic Fertilizer Chemistry is really not that complicated. Once Poeple have that Knowledge they should be able to clearly see beyond the Marketing.
Actually you are correct its not the Nutrients themselves but how Poeple use them in Conjunction with lots of different Additives that they got Suckered into buying.
Understanding basic Fertilizer Chemistry is really not that complicated. Once Poeple have that Knowledge they should be able to clearly see beyond the Marketing.
Ummm no but only up to a certain point.
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Absolem
Active member
Bingo!!
Most cannabis growers have no clue what nutrient solution profile they are running. Farmers know exactly how many ppms of each nutrient they feeding their plants. Cannabis growers talk of NPK in terms of numbers like a 5-2-6 and rarely delve into those numbers with any substantial meaning.
For example here is the nutrient solution profile for H3ad's 6/9 coco formula.
N 97
P 60
K 105
Ca 97
Mg 41
S 27
Most people gloss over the solution profile numbers and only focus on the "6/9". Understanding your solution profile and how those chemicals work together or against each other is very important in figuring out how to get the most out of a cannabis plant.
Impossible to get anything decent running more K than Ca. Absurd.
ADHDGrower
Member
Who would run more Ca then K in anything but your Mythical Soil?
Poeple think Jacks has too much K with its 26%, i run a 36% Mix and have no Ca Issues at around 2:1 K/Ca Ratio, in Coco.
After a while of feeding theres so much Phosphate Binding in any given Substrate that what you think you are feeding isnt what Plants have actually availible for them.
AD,
How about the University of Florida for one? Even then, it still needs more Ca. A couple of the guys are running even higher Ca using a good chelate and it is much better than the Univ of Florida attempts. Of course you can't get close to the ratios needed in the "mythical soil". That is what makes hydro so lousy. Hydro looks great, often smells great, but the terps, oils, yields and at the end of the day, smoking quality, aren't there IMHO.
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/cv216
Sounds like you need to understand electrical charges a bit more. This crop will tolerate a lot, that is quite evident and if you see issues, well, you missed the boat anyways. Saying you don't see issues doesn't mean much. If you EVER have a calcium deficiency, there is NO catching up. So far, EVERYONE has had a calcium deficiency!
What credentials have you got?
It's unwise to think that Osmosis will bring you the results you desire. Luxary compensation is a Faux Pas.
Your past sentences answer all our future questions for you. Your time here is done. Your lack of an understanding shows from post 1. You have no images to back up outlandish claims & no scientific basis to your argument.
Ratios are everything, even though much of the agriculture community (specifically the potassium and phosphorus institute) would have you think otherwise. Just think how much more K they sell than folks need! Read up on the concept of SAR (sodium absorbtion ratio) and then tell me ratios don't matter. This is the most basic of basic principles.
Ratio science was done years ago by Dr. Tiedjens. I posted a page somewhere where you can download his book for free. Read it. Several times.
Excellent post!
ADHDGrower
Member
ADHDGrower
Member
What Credentials do i need? This is an Open Discussion Forum
How can my Time here be done? I intend to still continue Learning reading this Site
I made a Statement that various NPK Ratios can produce good Results. I cited my Experience using an slightly too high k Formula. And made another Statement that Nutrients especially P will bind to your Substrate and that this will alter the Nutrient Profile the Plants are recieving.
If thats unacceptable to you and you need another Poster to have a Pretty Album and Postcount to not attack his Statements then i feel sorry for you
ADHDGrower
Member
I have seen lots of good Grows using standard 2:1 K/Ca Ratios and older Horticulture Literature also commonly advises this much Ca. It seems to be a new Trend applying that much Ca in Hydro.
Thank you for Answering my Question and bringing this to my Attention. I find your Statement "Impossible to get anything decent..." to be a bit extreme. ü
ADHDGrower
Member
I never claimed that i know everything about Ions or Charges but let me quote Benton Jones Jr Author of Hydroponics-A Practical Guide for the Soilless Grower, which i consider a good Read and maybe his Statements hold true still:
The use of a rooting medium, whether inorganic or organic, poses a set
of challenges. Although the medium itself may be inert, such as gravel, sand,
perlite, or rockwool, it harbors pore spaces that will hold nutrient solution,
which may eventually be absorbed by plant roots; the elements move with
the solution by mass flow or by diffusion within the solution and are also
reached by root extension (growth) (see Chapter 3). Organic media, such as
peat moss and composted milled pinebark, have similar pore spaces, as well
as a cation/anion exchange capacity that can remove ions from the solution
and hold them for later release into solution.###### In both types of media, a
precipitate of elements can occur, essentially as a combination of calcium
phosphate and calcium sulfate, which can also entrap other elements, mainly
the micronutrients. Although this precipitate is essentially insoluble, portions
can become soluble, which will then contribute to the essential element supply
being delivered to the plant roots by repeated passage of the nutrient solution
through the rooting medium####
I thought this was something not widely talked about and i believe in it, my Statement was ment to provoke Thinking outside the Box which clearly is a lost cause here.
Phosphate easily precipates, even though its not a Cation, some of it will not leach out but bind to Substrat Particles, other Nutrients will bind to this Precipate over Time, simple Acid from a Fertilizer will dissolve some of these Nutrients, adding to whats availible to the Plant. Thats how i see it, feel free to prove me wrong.
The use of a rooting medium, whether inorganic or organic, poses a set
of challenges. Although the medium itself may be inert, such as gravel, sand,
perlite, or rockwool, it harbors pore spaces that will hold nutrient solution,
which may eventually be absorbed by plant roots; the elements move with
the solution by mass flow or by diffusion within the solution and are also
reached by root extension (growth) (see Chapter 3). Organic media, such as
peat moss and composted milled pinebark, have similar pore spaces, as well
as a cation/anion exchange capacity that can remove ions from the solution
and hold them for later release into solution.###### In both types of media, a
precipitate of elements can occur, essentially as a combination of calcium
phosphate and calcium sulfate, which can also entrap other elements, mainly
the micronutrients. Although this precipitate is essentially insoluble, portions
can become soluble, which will then contribute to the essential element supply
being delivered to the plant roots by repeated passage of the nutrient solution
through the rooting medium####
I thought this was something not widely talked about and i believe in it, my Statement was ment to provoke Thinking outside the Box which clearly is a lost cause here.
Phosphate easily precipates, even though its not a Cation, some of it will not leach out but bind to Substrat Particles, other Nutrients will bind to this Precipate over Time, simple Acid from a Fertilizer will dissolve some of these Nutrients, adding to whats availible to the Plant. Thats how i see it, feel free to prove me wrong.
Going to several cups, dispensaries and trying lots of "grows", I can assure you that once you have tried a well grown with Ca high in the plant, you will realize what I am talking about.
Hard to say the proof is in the pudding until you have had the pudding, no?
I am not saying that there is not excellent quality weed out there, what I am saying is that after you have tried something grown correctly using real science, you will then understand there is a whole other universe out there that you didn't know existed.
Not sure how much thinking outside of the box you are talking about when discussing folks like B. Jones Jr. You couldn't get more orthodox if you tried with your choice of information source.
The reason that the Univ of Florida had to rethink the hydroponic formula was that the plants constantly suffered from Ca deficiency. Those older authors like B.JonesJr., never worried much about quality, they were pushing productivity which is the venue of the fertilizer companies. I have been in plenty of hydro greenhouses with peppers, cukes and tomatoes. They look great, they have no shelf life nor flavor though, but heck they produce a lot of them!
The market resists garbage and pays a premium for quality. Folks try something extraordinary and watch what happens when the market starts pulling.
This crop will produce under a myriad of varying nutrition. What science does know is that that high quality comes from high P and Ca, not K and Mg.
ADHDGrower
Member
I actually believe in high Ca, adding Gypsum to my Coco Mix.
But your initial Statement implies thats it just not possible to have a good Grow without applying way more Ca then 9of10 Hdyrostore Fertilizers will give you.
As long as i see Grows that i feel are way above average that use simple Jacks 321 Recipes im inclined to not be extreme on that School of Thinking.
Damn i thought all those Books about Horticultural Production were based on real Science. I admit most of them are a bad collection of Reports on Practical Experiences.
But your initial Statement implies thats it just not possible to have a good Grow without applying way more Ca then 9of10 Hdyrostore Fertilizers will give you.
As long as i see Grows that i feel are way above average that use simple Jacks 321 Recipes im inclined to not be extreme on that School of Thinking.
Damn i thought all those Books about Horticultural Production were based on real Science. I admit most of them are a bad collection of Reports on Practical Experiences.
ADHDGrower
Member
I dont claim hes the definitive Author, just one of the better Books i found. The Part of Precipates affecting the Nutrients just seem to make alot of Sense and isnt discussed in Detail in other Material.
Science in agriculture is 99% based on yield data. Not quality.
Glad to hear you are using gypsum on your Coco. You are ahead of the pack. There are those that shot me down for that one many times, haha...
If you look at the Univ of Maryland study in the 1970's on cannabis, it is quite easy to see what drives quality.
In science, you must be able to sort through a lot of baloney. Science is a double edge sword in the hands of the wrong people trying to prove issues based on financial rewards for the folks that financed the study.
Glad to see you are reading up some!
PoweredByLove
Most Loved
R Over feeding is the number one cause of shitty bud.
I got a lot of props on this plant, even my haters were giving me kudos. Honestly it's one of the worst plants I've grown, way overfed too much nitrogen smallish buds from the aforementioned overfeeding.
Just further cements in my mind the proliferation of bad growers growing badly.
One of my better grows and I was told to go kill myself cuz I suck. I guess people don't like seeing properly grown plants with a nice fade on it.
I think people either don't know how to grow good weed any more or there's a conspiracy to keep people growing stunted over fed plants and sell more bottles. Somehow dark green small frosty buds became the new proper grown.
I got a lot of props on this plant, even my haters were giving me kudos. Honestly it's one of the worst plants I've grown, way overfed too much nitrogen smallish buds from the aforementioned overfeeding.
Just further cements in my mind the proliferation of bad growers growing badly.
One of my better grows and I was told to go kill myself cuz I suck. I guess people don't like seeing properly grown plants with a nice fade on it.
I think people either don't know how to grow good weed any more or there's a conspiracy to keep people growing stunted over fed plants and sell more bottles. Somehow dark green small frosty buds became the new proper grown.
ADHDGrower
Member
I freely admit my Sources for Learning are not the best and i agree that there is little Attention to Quality in Horticulte Literature.
Would you mind giving me some specific Links regarding P and Ca beeing the important Macros for Quality?
There is this Idea that the Plant doesnt need Ca in later Stages, thats why Growers cut out Calcinit later on. Whats your Take on that`?
Would you mind giving me some specific Links regarding P and Ca beeing the important Macros for Quality?
There is this Idea that the Plant doesnt need Ca in later Stages, thats why Growers cut out Calcinit later on. Whats your Take on that`?
