Wrinkled leaves- Mosaic virus? Overfert? Mutation? Sodium ? pH ?

oldog · Dec 28, 2009

Three types of plants - and all are affected:
N.lights from seeds, Lemon Kush from seeds & different supplier,
Blueberry/Hawaiian 3rd generation clones.

Worst affected are the younger, the smaller, and the runtish plants.
Least affected are larger ones, with the males ( largest) almost unaffected.

Here are the suggestions from many many sites and posts:

SALT in the Coco- dont think so, Its a good brand that makes
a big issue about having been washed by 3 monsoon rainy seasons.

VIRUS, mosaic, tobacco or cucumber- photos of virus in cannabis that
I have seen have very bright yellow veins and mottled yellowish discoloration
on leaves which I dont have. ( but maybe those photos are not virus !)
Also it is said that virus cannot be transferred from seeds.

MUTATION- from D J Short etc - no, too many varieties affected.

OVER FERT- was running a bit high, but flushed twice 10 days, and again 7
days ago and reduced feed to 400 ppm but young leaves are still wrinkling.

pH- maybe ? I have been using GH test drops - hard to judge the color
accurately but should have been in the 6.0 to 6.5 area.( ordered a digital )

Sodium Benzoate- a preservative- leaching from plastic containers.
Maybe. I'm using a large plastic drum from an ethnic food store for 1st time,
as a reservoir.

Details : All in Coco + 15% perlite, 2 inches hydroton in bottom . Lucas
formula from start, now in 3rd wk of 12/12, under 600w hps. Watered as
indicated by moisture meter- once every day or 2 days.Drain to waste.
Some 'adult' lucas was used on seedlings/clones by mistake for a week.
Reservoir is aerated for 2 hours before feeding.

Thanks for any comments , ideas , or thoughts on this problem.

THC_Decapitator · Dec 28, 2009

ive never seen leaves that jagged before , pretty crazy .

oldog · Dec 28, 2009

THC, if you had to vote on it, which do you think is the cause ?

blackburngrower · Dec 28, 2009

i have this happening to me with a few of my cuttings out of about 30 cuttings about six are like yours wrinkly and deformed im thinking that to much moisture as caused my problem and im hoping my plants grow out of it

oldog · Dec 29, 2009

I dont think its over watering - when I culled the males I examined the coco - it was quite moist and the roots looked very good.

Anybody - a wild idea, a guess ?

Thanks !

bali_man · Dec 29, 2009

i have a plant doing the same thing, i was thinking its a mutation as well. Not mosaic virus for sure. I treated mine with a systemic insecticide and the weird jagged shit started. I'll snap a shot for you so you can compare. Looks identical to me though.

PistilPete · Dec 29, 2009

i'm interested to know what that is also. i had a cut of G-13 that looked exactly like that. It never transferred to other plants like yours, though.

Moldy Dreads · Dec 29, 2009

What's the tempearature and airflow like in the grow? Looks like something in the feeding schedule for sure too, did you treat the coco before using it? Is there any perlite or drainage medium mixed in? Can you give more details on the growroom and the nutes etc

oldog · Dec 29, 2009

Bali - mine are not going yellow (yet!) but the deformation/crinkling looks very similar to yours. I dont think cannabis is that different from other plants and when other plants get a virus or fungus it attacks part of the leaf and spreads. Some parts of the infected leaves look fine. This is not the case here with mine or yours. Its all over every leaf. Did you use that hormone B1 thing Superthrive ?
I did for the first time with this grow.
Thats on my suspect list now.

MoldyDreads- Temp has been comfortable southern 70s , fan blowing on lamp- good circulation and extraction. Ive cut off the fan as its been said that curling leaves can be a reaction by the plant to excessive moisture loss. Humidity is about 50%.
Did not treat the coco- wet it with pH adjusted water, mixed with 15% perlite and 2" of hydroton at bottom of pots.

PistilPete- what happened to your plant ?
Please tell me it survived !

Thanks for all thoughts.

jaybutta · Dec 29, 2009

Probably viral...looks very similar to the Hemp Streak virus...researching further...be back soon...jay

jaybutta · Dec 29, 2009

Destroy obviously infected plants and do not clone them or use their seeds. Viruses migrate into developing seeds, despite assurances to the contrary(Rosenthal High Times 278:95).

Source: Hemp Diseases and Pests

The only way to save the plant is if you took a tiny clipping of a growing shoot and grew it out in a tissue culture...I would imagine it would have to be one hell of a kickass plant to go to such extreme measures...I'd like to know what strain it is, and where you got it from...sorry for the bad news...jay

oldog · Dec 30, 2009

Jay, these are 3 different varieties from 3 different vendors.
2 sets from seed and one set from cuttings. All affected.
How could it spread so fast- in about 6 weeks to all plants ?
No insects at all- only other method of viral spread is supposed to be a cut on the plant. I pray you are wrong !!!
Thanks

oldog · Dec 30, 2009

from Hemp Diseases:

"The hemp streak virus (HSV) is frequently cited on fiber cultivars in Europe. Foliar symptoms begin as a pale green chlorosis. Chlorotic areas soon develop into a series of interveinal yellow streaks or chevron-stripes. Some-times brown necrotic flecks appear, each fleck surrounded by a pale green halo. Flecks appear along the margins and tips of older leaves and often coalesce. Streak symptoms predominate in moist weather, flecks appear during dry weather. Leaf margins become wrinkled and leaf tips roll upward, leaflets curl into spirals. Whole plants assume a "wavy wilt" appearance."

Note: Chlorosis is a yellowing of the leaf between the veins, while the veins look green. Mine (so far) are not yellow at all.
I'm still hoping .

jaybutta · Dec 30, 2009

I hope I'm wrong too

...pics in the book looked very similar to your situation, however...also, you seem to be a very competent grower, so I don't think it has anything to do with anything you're doing...it looks systemic...like a virus...and viruses can be spread quite a few different ways...it really doesn't take much...pruning multiple strains with the same set of clippers will spread the virus...in fact, there's no real way to tell how the virus is passed from one plant to the next...you are rather limited in what you can do at this point...if you've flushed and whatnot...and you're sure there are no pests at work...it brings me no pleasure to give you such a diagnosis...I found nothing else that was similar throughout the book, and that book is the foremost authority on matters such as this...it's the most expensive, detailed, scientific work available...if I'm wrong, I certainly do apologize...sorry for the rant, bro...jay

hazy · Dec 30, 2009

nah, you just have big time pH and def. problems.
What's the ph of your runoff?

jmansweed · Dec 30, 2009

oldog · Dec 30, 2009

Thanks ! Waiting for good pH meter. After reading all the university pdfs in LJB's current post on pH I now have a better understanding of its importance.
I think with my GH drop test kit I have been running much too acid, resulting in too much micro nutrient uptake ie what I have
is an excess rather than a deficiency.
In addition they say coco has a high capacity to absorb and release nutrients (CAC) which says to me - be cautious of overfeeding with coco.
I am carefully increasing nutrients and will post again with runoff test etc.

We need some Wiki type articles that condense the knowledge on
a subject- There is a coco thread that runs to 50 odd pages-
not even a retiree has time to read that !

Kcar · Dec 31, 2009

This is probably not your prob, but I've had nothing but bad things happen
from putting hydroton under my coco. I experienced strange growth and root rot
the one time I tried it. I think the hydroton interrupts the wicking process of the
coco by creating an air bubble at the bottom of the bucket. I use the same 7x7's
as you. Threw all my hydroton in the compost. Now when my daughter finds one and asks "Daddy, whats this?", "That's Dragon poo, Honey!", "Really? Cool!"

jaybutta · Dec 31, 2009

Kcar said:
"That's Dragon poo, Honey!", "Really? Cool!"

That's some funny sh-t, mate

...thanks for the laugh...jay

oldog · Dec 31, 2009

Kcar you said " I think the hydroton interrupts the wicking process of the coco"

Isn't that only flood and drain ? I'm top hand watering.

OK: Tests, new meter, Total 11 wks from seeds, 3 wks on 12/12:

Res- 5.7 pH 784 ppm
runoff 6.2 575

Is that 5.9 average too high ? What average should I aim for ?
I'm now using Cocos A and Cocos B from House and Garden (Dutch)

These plants look awful.

EDIT: runoff 575 not same as res as previously posted

Wrinkled leaves- Mosaic virus? Overfert? Mutation? Sodium ? pH ?

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