Old School White Widow
- Thread starter MoeFunk
- Start date
Without expecting the plant to be the exact replica of what you once had, you should be able to find some common traits like grow habits, yield , some smells/tastes and type of high in line existing since a long time. Long enough to have stabilized traits in each seeds lot;
Like kro-magnon just said, they have had the past 30 years to stabilize traits but they haven't. I can buy a pack of any particular strain of tomato seeds and I can be sure that those seeds are going to produce tomatoes exactly like they did 30 years ago. That's because the vegetable industry has real breeding programs with actual scientists who know what they're doing.
Most of the old Dutch seed bank "strains" weren't really strains at all they were F1 hybrids. Without stabilizing a single trait or doing any real breeding at all those seeds should produce plants identical to the old plants, as long as the same parent plants are used to produce the seed. But they aren't the same anymore because, one way or another, they lost their parent plants and had to start over with their own seed stock to try and recreate all of their old strains.
So ya, we should be able to expect very similar plants as in the past, and in many cases the plants should actually be pretty much identical to the old stuff. It doesn't help that the industry is mostly a bunch of liars with big made up legends about the origins of their weed.
People pretend like these guys were geniuses when in reality the Dutch were just doing the same thing as everyone else has done throughout the past hundred years or so, and what everyone is still doing, which is to cross everything to everything else and see what you get. It worked well for a while but they failed to maintain things and the magic didn't last.
Dime
Well-known member
Tomatoes don't turn weedy like cannabis without proper diligent selection and will not be effected by environmental conditions like cannabis. You can grow those tomatoes in different regions and still expect them to be relatively the same.Outstandingly potent cannabis plants are not the norm and finding ones that also pass the trait on is even more rare. The illegal nature of the plant hindered improvement and preservaton and people took what they could get. I don't expect plant improvement in cannabis but a decline in quality in the future . They have introduced indica,then fem, and now ruderalis has been accepted and in some cases embraced so we have to hang on to what we have and stop the flood of polyhybrids or at least have a real seed bank like they do with vegetables .JMO
It's true that tomatoes are less likely to go feral simply because they pollinate themselves, but that also means that a real breeding program is a lot more work and creating new strains is more difficult.
There's really no excuse for losing parent stock though. I have plants that are over 20 years old and I'm just some guy not Sensi Seeds. There are a number of famous cuts that have been around since the 90s that have been kept alive by random people.
goingrey
Well-known member
Their head breeder talks about it in this interview at 29:15, but he just says the same as everyone, "Shanti probably":
Sure you can:
Yeah or alternatively, the Indian part is the same. I mean Shanti says he got it from some farmer in India and Ingemar says he found a seed in some charas... Imagine if the Widow/Wonder is just some Kerala/Idukki Gold hybrid and in that light the forums full of arguments which one of the two is the one that knocked it off.. if it was both... is funny.
Hoss_Beardman
Member
Mostly heirloom variety tomatoes are the plants that will breed true and make similar offspring as the parent with variations. Most companies sell a hybrid tomato seed that will not produce quality offspring.
I would assume some cannabis breeders would select generations of seed for sale that would not produce similar offspring to the parent ensuring the sale of additional seeds in the future.
The past breeders carried the torch through prohibition throughout the world and it went the way it went. The cannabis market is what drives genetic selection. Glandular stalked trichomes were selected for easy hash production. Indica was selected for indoor fast flower. Now noobs are just purchasing the highest THC content available at dispensaries and we are headed towards bland harsh potent plants. The closer we get to uniformity and stabilizing things the closer big pharm moves to plant patents.
I would assume some cannabis breeders would select generations of seed for sale that would not produce similar offspring to the parent ensuring the sale of additional seeds in the future.
The past breeders carried the torch through prohibition throughout the world and it went the way it went. The cannabis market is what drives genetic selection. Glandular stalked trichomes were selected for easy hash production. Indica was selected for indoor fast flower. Now noobs are just purchasing the highest THC content available at dispensaries and we are headed towards bland harsh potent plants. The closer we get to uniformity and stabilizing things the closer big pharm moves to plant patents.
Dime
Well-known member
i think we have that already but it is rare to find it all in a batch, like Secretariat the triple crown winner who had 660 offspring but none matched him,all in all he put out great stock but he didn't sire another triple crown winner,maybe he passed it on but the chosen females didn't combine but when the progeny mate and so on down the line eventually the odd one will pop up again .
Dime
Well-known member
i thought I recalled them saying it was from their friend Ingemar years ago but i guess i was wrong,thx for clearing it up. This is an old description.
goingrey
Well-known member
That is Dutch Passion, Paradise might have got it from Ingemar.
Dime
Well-known member
Lol, I'm already hitting the bong sorry
xtsho
Well-known member
Look at what the name is being used for. It's Goods and Services. One company is selling spices and the other provides cleaning services. Not cannabis. You can't trademark anything that's illegal anywhere in the world.
This is what those trademarks are for. Companies that provide legal services or products. Nothing cannabis related. I know for a fact that you can't trademark cannabis in the United States but there are dozens of registrations for White Widow all related to industries that are not cannabis related.
CuraLeaf a large cannabis company operating in the United States had their trademark request for cannabis refused.
U.S. APPLICATION SERIAL NO. 86103895
MARK: CURALEAF
Registration Refused – Not in Lawful Use in Federal Commerce
Here, the application identifies applicant's goods as follows: medical marijuana.
Applicant's goods consist of, or include, items or activities that are prohibited by the CSA, namely, marijuana.
Because the identified goods and/or services are prohibited by the CSA, applicant does not have a bona fide intention to lawfully use the applied-for mark in commerce.
Therefore, registration is refused because applicant does not have a bona fide intention to lawfully use the applied-for mark in commerce. Trademark Act Sections 1 and 45, 15 U.S.C. §§1051, 1127; see John W. Carson Found. v. Toilets.com Inc., 94 USPQ2d 1942, 1948 (TTAB 2010); TMEP §907.
I could take hemp seeds, sell them online, call it White Widow and there is nothing anyone could do. The story of that guy owning the name White Widow is just some more stoner nonsense floating around the cannabis circles on the internet.
goingrey
Well-known member
Yes it is under "goods and services", but in this case specifically goods. Click on it for details... The trademark is valid for:
- 3 Cleaning and fragrancing preparations; Household fragrances; Scented sachets; Extracts of flowers; Cushions filled with perfumed substances; Cushions filled with fragrant substances; Potpourris [fragrances]; Room fragrancing preparations.
- 31 Aquaculture goods.
- 34 Smokers' articles, namely ashtrays, lighters, filters, cigarette boxes, tobacco jars, cigarette rolling machines and pipes.
But interestingly, maybe you have a point, all of the requests for Sensi Seeds have been refused. Wonder why though, seeds are a legal product. Is it a failure of bureaucracy, or a success, because after all they were trying to trademark strains bred by others.. Shame they don't say the reason for refusal.
xtsho
Well-known member
I don't know about the EU but you can not trademark anything cannabis related in the United States. I looked into it years ago.
So that guy can claim he owns the name all he wants but he has no recourse legally to stop anyone else from using the name. There's also like 100 different outfits selling White Widow so why isn't he suing them or sending out Cease and Desist letters?
I'm not trying to argue with you and I know you were not the one saying some guy owned the name. I just felt compelled to reply to that initial post as there is so much misinformation floating around the cannabis world. Just like the stories about where this or that strain originated. If you read those threads there's always at least three different stories. Most are just fairy tales as nobody today really knows the truth about hardly any of it. Yet you still have the hard core believers despite their information coming only from some post they read online from a stranger.
goingrey
Well-known member
I mean Shanti did change the name to Black Widow so maybe the C&D was flexed one time at least?
xtsho
Well-known member
Recent refusals for strain name trademarks by the European Union Intellectual Property Office (EUIPO)
"As a rule, the names for weed variants will be refused on basis of the F ground as well (in addition to B/C): see for example the decisions of the Boards of Appeal confirming the refusals of ‘BUBBA KUSH’ (14/07/2021, R 2115/2020-2), ‘NORTHERN LIGHTS’ (08/04/2021, R 1757/2020-2) and ‘GREEN GELATO’ (05/07/2021, R2157/2020-2)."
goingrey
Well-known member
Well that sucks but must be a more recent rule as there are indeed two for White Widow.
Interestingly, it is the same German company who has the other White Widow trademark (for "spices") is the one who tried to file for Bubba Kush as well but was refused (for "beer" and "tobacco", lol). So maybe the rule is good if the filings are coming from professional trademark trolls like this. But still, kinda sucks.
xtsho
Well-known member
What's odd is that Bubba Kush is trademarked in Germany but was denied by the EUIPO.
I did find a valid cannabis trademark in Argentina for White Widow though.
WHITE WIDOW
SEEDS, PLANTS AND NATURAL FLOWERS.
Trade mark status
Registered
Application number
3209018
Registration number
2628631
550 Trade mark type
Word
Kind of mark
Individual
Application language code
es
Nice classification
31
Trade mark office
Argentina - INPI
190 Registration office
AR
It doesn't matter to me though as it's not enforceable in the United States and since that's where I live I can use any strain name I want without a care. Not that I'm going to bother but at least here nobody owns the name White Widow if it's cannabis related.
Pédetoddy
Well-known member
I always doubted the lineage of White Widow alleged Brazilian sativa (probably "Manga rosa"). White widow looks like a pure indica, if it has any Brazilian genetics in it it must be minimal quantity as this Brazilian sativa has an extremely thin leaf and giant internodes.
