My Perpetual SOG Cabinets are Finally Finished!
- Thread starter petemoss
- Start date
Great thread so far Petemoss. Your style is working well. Have you thought about trying out some of the Mandala seeds? I think the landrace genes would benefit you with the small container sizes, seeing as they barely need fertilizer to produce massive buds. Keep up the good work.
-Funk
-Funk
petemoss
Active member
Thanks for stopping by, smoke1sun and FunkBomb! I'll have to look into those Mandala seeds, haven't heard about them. My flower cab is looking weak; a lot of stretchy tall plantlets that will be harvested in the next two weeks. I doubt I will get more than 5-7 grams dry from this batch that grew too long or too short. I'm still experimenting with the best height to veg to before flowering. Looks like it will be about 4-5 inches. There's about three dozen clones in the pipeline rooting. Can't wait to get rid of these ugly tall plants and get some new clones in there. Below is my box and my friend's flower cab for comparison:
petemoss, all but 2 of my 8 flowering girls are from Mandala... have 2 sadhus and 4 kalichakras. I'm with FunkBomb, I'm doing all sorts of "tortures" to keep my bonsai mums (done with cuts from the flowering girls) in control: they have been for a month in solo cups, their stems are like 9mm thick.. I've starved them nute-wise, heavy pruning, small container... no way, they're hard as a rock and need (specially the sadhus) very little nutes and way less water than others.
I've even rooted clones cut from the lower buds 4 weeks into flower w/o problems.
I've even rooted clones cut from the lower buds 4 weeks into flower w/o problems.
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petemoss
Active member
Those Mandala seeds sound good! I've been reading about them on their web site and will definitely order some as soon as I finish with the seeds I have now: AK47 and Apollo 11.
Thanks for the heads up on those beans, repuk and FunkBomb!
I've been harvesting some of the lanky plants and the yield is going down. After 15 plants, average dry weight is 10 grams per plant - about what I expected at a density of five per sq foot approx. Don't think I will grow more than 30 plants total.
Thanks for the heads up on those beans, repuk and FunkBomb!
I've been harvesting some of the lanky plants and the yield is going down. After 15 plants, average dry weight is 10 grams per plant - about what I expected at a density of five per sq foot approx. Don't think I will grow more than 30 plants total.
hey petemoss, great thread, im planning pretty much what you're doing except over a 2'x1.5'x30" space, and this thread has given me lots of good info
I was gonna get a 250w HIDHUT light kit and make my own cooltube
Im was wondering, does your digital ballast effect any of the tv or cell signals around it?
I was gonna get a 250w HIDHUT light kit and make my own cooltube
Im was wondering, does your digital ballast effect any of the tv or cell signals around it?
petemoss
Active member
Hi SatoriSOG,
This purple Lumatek doesn't cause any RF interference. I understand that some of the earlier digital ballasts caused interference, but they beefed up the shielding and solved that problem. No complaints about the Lumatek. Completely silent (no fans), and relatively cool running.
Your space sounds perfect for a 250 watt HID light. Although I'm using a larger space (25" deep, 34" wide and 36" from floor to the top of the light yoyos), light intensity falls off quickly beyond a foot or so. In the pics below, I rearranged the 30 odd plants to bring them closer to the light. As you can see, you can't really use the full space if you want all plants to get strong light.
This purple Lumatek doesn't cause any RF interference. I understand that some of the earlier digital ballasts caused interference, but they beefed up the shielding and solved that problem. No complaints about the Lumatek. Completely silent (no fans), and relatively cool running.
Your space sounds perfect for a 250 watt HID light. Although I'm using a larger space (25" deep, 34" wide and 36" from floor to the top of the light yoyos), light intensity falls off quickly beyond a foot or so. In the pics below, I rearranged the 30 odd plants to bring them closer to the light. As you can see, you can't really use the full space if you want all plants to get strong light.
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Looking real good pete. Whos A11 is that you got there?
I think that sinse youre not using all that floor space you should get some bigger cups. Not much though. Go the gas station and ask them to let you buy a few large soda cups off them. 64oz are 9" high and 4.5" across. I have noticed that even the leaves get A LOT bigger in 1gallon containers than the ones grown in the 2L/64oz cups. These cups are small enough were you can still run the same system, but yo may get a bit more at the end. Shit at least do 1 or 2 to see...
I think that sinse youre not using all that floor space you should get some bigger cups. Not much though. Go the gas station and ask them to let you buy a few large soda cups off them. 64oz are 9" high and 4.5" across. I have noticed that even the leaves get A LOT bigger in 1gallon containers than the ones grown in the 2L/64oz cups. These cups are small enough were you can still run the same system, but yo may get a bit more at the end. Shit at least do 1 or 2 to see...
phineas fogg
New member
Hi Pete glad things are going well but I had a thought about having stretchy plants in my grow room being only 32" high. I vegged under a purple cfl and they got to 6" with 5 nodes then into 12/12 under a purple cfl and the tallest is 16" and the smallest 12 ". I was just thinking that if you put some blue light in the flower cab that may stop them stretching so much.Just a thought.
petemoss
Active member
one Q,
I got those Apollo 11's from Joey Weed for a future SCROG grow. They're supposed to have mucho side branches with soft, pliable shoots- perfect for training. I'm tempted to try bigger containers in my SOG, but Doc says that with bigger pots, it's hard to control finishing height and I will get greater variability. The biggest container I used was 1.5 liters with very good results.
I'll try one of those 64 oz cups just to see if I can keep it short in a large pot.
phineas fogg,
Not sure what those purple CFL's are. Does it say "cool white" or "daylight"? I'm already using a HPS for flowering and I think the HPS is closer to the blue color than my MH which is reddish. I suspect that my stretching problems is due to the use of MH light when my HPS bulb blew.
My newly rooted clones are starting out a very pale, light green color with yellowing around the tips and edges of the leaves. Something in the soil/coco mix is not agreeing with them and stunting their growth. I may move to a pure coco mix and get rid of the worm castings, which is causing the pots to hold a lot of water. I'll try to add a picture later but uploading and displaying pics is difficult with the new upgrades going on.
Anyone experience this before? Looks like a magnesium or nitrogen deficiency or too strong feed.
I got those Apollo 11's from Joey Weed for a future SCROG grow. They're supposed to have mucho side branches with soft, pliable shoots- perfect for training. I'm tempted to try bigger containers in my SOG, but Doc says that with bigger pots, it's hard to control finishing height and I will get greater variability. The biggest container I used was 1.5 liters with very good results.
I'll try one of those 64 oz cups just to see if I can keep it short in a large pot.
phineas fogg,
Not sure what those purple CFL's are. Does it say "cool white" or "daylight"? I'm already using a HPS for flowering and I think the HPS is closer to the blue color than my MH which is reddish. I suspect that my stretching problems is due to the use of MH light when my HPS bulb blew.
My newly rooted clones are starting out a very pale, light green color with yellowing around the tips and edges of the leaves. Something in the soil/coco mix is not agreeing with them and stunting their growth. I may move to a pure coco mix and get rid of the worm castings, which is causing the pots to hold a lot of water. I'll try to add a picture later but uploading and displaying pics is difficult with the new upgrades going on.
Anyone experience this before? Looks like a magnesium or nitrogen deficiency or too strong feed.
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pete, I have been seeing some coco problems myself. I am way too lazy to figure it out, so I went back to FFOF and no more problems. It seems much more forgiving, and self sufficient. You may want to consider a ratio of 3parts perlite to one part coco. That is what Autopot Co. recommends using with their water culture pots.
Foe me though...I feel much better depending on the amendments the FFOF has in it.
Foe me though...I feel much better depending on the amendments the FFOF has in it.
pete, in my newbie opinion that looks like drowning roots...
I've used straight coco and some plants showed temporary defs that were solved by itself without amendments, while others didn't show any defs... lesson learned: KISS is always the best approach, and plants like individuals vary in strength and health even in the same strain or (less) in clones.
When an individual plant showed defs using the same "proven" method or formula used with the rest I just ignored it and usually dissapeared without any intervention. I will of course select keepers by this criteria.
Keeping things simple aids in troubleshooting, I'd use just coco.
I've used straight coco and some plants showed temporary defs that were solved by itself without amendments, while others didn't show any defs... lesson learned: KISS is always the best approach, and plants like individuals vary in strength and health even in the same strain or (less) in clones.
When an individual plant showed defs using the same "proven" method or formula used with the rest I just ignored it and usually dissapeared without any intervention. I will of course select keepers by this criteria.
Keeping things simple aids in troubleshooting, I'd use just coco.
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how established are the roots? Somtimes that happens if the plants cant assimilate all the food and light from being too young. Happens to clones alot of the light source is ToO bright.
Also, give young plants a good wet.dry cycle. Only feed everyday to established plants. IMEx coir does best when lightly damp for youngsters.
Also, give young plants a good wet.dry cycle. Only feed everyday to established plants. IMEx coir does best when lightly damp for youngsters.
petemoss
Active member
Wow, good advice from all of you guys, hoosierdaddy, repuk and one Q! I believe I'm having a temporary problem with some weaker clones and will be able to nurse the stalled plants back to healthy growth soon. Most of the other clones are doing fi
ne. The "soiless" mix I'm using CocoCan, which is pre-rinsed coir with worm castings added plus about 1/4 perlite. It's not pure coco and it's not soil, but rather a hybrid mix and I can't decide whether to treat it like soil or hydro. Instinctively, I want to do it the "natural" way without artificial chemicals - an organic grow. But that's very tricky and beyond my knowledge at the present time. Hydro is easy and produces good results but is completely "unnatural". Ah..what to do...let me self-medicate and ponder this for a while...
ne. The "soiless" mix I'm using CocoCan, which is pre-rinsed coir with worm castings added plus about 1/4 perlite. It's not pure coco and it's not soil, but rather a hybrid mix and I can't decide whether to treat it like soil or hydro. Instinctively, I want to do it the "natural" way without artificial chemicals - an organic grow. But that's very tricky and beyond my knowledge at the present time. Hydro is easy and produces good results but is completely "unnatural". Ah..what to do...let me self-medicate and ponder this for a while...
petemoss
Active member
This one was growing too tall, so I had to torture her a little:
Part of the problem is that the tall bottles hold too much water. Even the pure coco + EWC bottles end up with a muddy swamp at the bottom. I tried to drill some extra holes about 1"-2" from the bottom, but drainage is still poor. Next I'll try a 1/2" of perlite at the bottom of the bottle and pure Canna coir. The coco will be flushed with a weak nute mix and some cal-mag+ until the runoff is clear and left to drain and dry for a day or so. That way, the clones will have something to feed on as the roots grow down. Low lighting and no water for 3-4 days until the roots hit the bottom of the bottle. And if that doesn't work...there's always FFOF
. Actually I considered using that but read that some found the FFOF too hot for seedlings. I burned some seedlings recently with chicken compost that wasn't fully broken down. As I see it, my sickly clones are suffering from a slight Mg deficiency, lack of food, too strong light, and wet feet.
Part of the problem is that the tall bottles hold too much water. Even the pure coco + EWC bottles end up with a muddy swamp at the bottom. I tried to drill some extra holes about 1"-2" from the bottom, but drainage is still poor. Next I'll try a 1/2" of perlite at the bottom of the bottle and pure Canna coir. The coco will be flushed with a weak nute mix and some cal-mag+ until the runoff is clear and left to drain and dry for a day or so. That way, the clones will have something to feed on as the roots grow down. Low lighting and no water for 3-4 days until the roots hit the bottom of the bottle. And if that doesn't work...there's always FFOF
. Actually I considered using that but read that some found the FFOF too hot for seedlings. I burned some seedlings recently with chicken compost that wasn't fully broken down. As I see it, my sickly clones are suffering from a slight Mg deficiency, lack of food, too strong light, and wet feet.
petemoss
Active member
Those take-out containers are great! I use them to dunk individual bottles. Usually I have three containers, one with my veg mix, one with a bloom mix and another with plain PHed water for flushing. Young clones get a diluted veg mix.
I've been harvesting 2-3 plants at a time and now have the weights of my first 20 plants: total of 168.0 grams Dry, or 8.4 grams per cut. The latest batch were tall stretchy plants that only produced 4-5 grams dry and really brought down the overall average. I had deficiency problems and overtrimmed the fan leaves, hence the sub-par yields.
Pretty ugly...There's 9 more of these beauties that will be chopped over the next week. Can't wait to get rid of those...what a waste of space!
I've been harvesting 2-3 plants at a time and now have the weights of my first 20 plants: total of 168.0 grams Dry, or 8.4 grams per cut. The latest batch were tall stretchy plants that only produced 4-5 grams dry and really brought down the overall average. I had deficiency problems and overtrimmed the fan leaves, hence the sub-par yields.
Pretty ugly...There's 9 more of these beauties that will be chopped over the next week. Can't wait to get rid of those...what a waste of space!
petemoss
Active member
Hoosierdaddy,
I'm going to keep trying with Canna coco and H3ad's GH feed formula. Recently read that deficiencies show up in coco if you don't give a weak feed early. Makes sense, since the coco is not providing any nutrition. That's probably why the FFOF is working better for you. Like they say, you can't treat coco like dirt, it must be watered frequently and kept slightly moist. Some extra perlite and additional holes should help these tall bottles drain faster.
petemoss
Active member
Thanks, dubwise! I harvested ten more stretchy plants and now have data on the first 30 plants. I got a total of 204.3 grams dry from 30 plants, or an average of 6.81 grams each. A far cry from my initial average of 13.8 grams from the first nine plants, but a satisfactory yield and some tasty buds for my efforts. The flower cab is looking better now with some breathing room for flowering plants, which are developing nice compact structures. The next batch should be better.
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