DIESEL GENERATOR, (as your primary power source)
- Thread starter I.M. Boggled
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thank's Darkness
A 30kw Diesel generator, convert your own waste oil to biodiesel, and wham, you're running big and not spending squat on fuel. Plus, you're being super enviro friendly too.
Check around your local restraunts - there's a chinese place up the road from me, changes out thier 2 50 gallon fryers twice a week. With Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) converting to biodiesel at just under 1:1, that's just under 200 gallons of biodiesel a week!
Figure the methanol and lye cost you on average about $.55 per gallon. That means you're powering a 25kw grow for under $400 per month. I spend more than that on power without my grow!
Ease off the grow just a tad, and only allocate 20kw for the grow. Now you have 5kw+ to run your house, and there are not too many folks using that much power in their home without a grow.
Now, just for fun, throw a flip flop on those 20 1kw lights, and picture your yeilds. :wink:
All for less than $400/month - oh, and how's it feel to not have power company snoops to worry about.
If only I could swing the startup costs
Check around your local restraunts - there's a chinese place up the road from me, changes out thier 2 50 gallon fryers twice a week. With Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) converting to biodiesel at just under 1:1, that's just under 200 gallons of biodiesel a week!
Figure the methanol and lye cost you on average about $.55 per gallon. That means you're powering a 25kw grow for under $400 per month. I spend more than that on power without my grow!
Ease off the grow just a tad, and only allocate 20kw for the grow. Now you have 5kw+ to run your house, and there are not too many folks using that much power in their home without a grow.
Now, just for fun, throw a flip flop on those 20 1kw lights, and picture your yeilds. :wink:
All for less than $400/month - oh, and how's it feel to not have power company snoops to worry about.
If only I could swing the startup costs
G
Guest
hey NiteTiger, if you don't have the inclination to make biodiesel you can fork-out for one of these instead: http://www.svo-kit.com/ i find this very intriguing.
Yep, I'm familiar with the SVO conversions - definately a great option.
Just after looking at bio-diesel, I'm sold - the chemistry is not much more complicated than making a good run of BHO I figure it's worth it to me, but you're definately right, if you're not up to Bio-diesel, an SVO conversion is cheap, easy, and loads better than petroleum.
Just after looking at bio-diesel, I'm sold - the chemistry is not much more complicated than making a good run of BHO
I figure it's worth it to me, but you're definately right, if you're not up to Bio-diesel, an SVO conversion is cheap, easy, and loads better than petroleum.
G
Guest
yeah i agree, biodiesel is worth the effort. once you have your process standardised it should become effortless.
but what if you want to grow your own oil-yielding crop? which plant yields the most oil, and is the easiest to process? i've heard that coconuts are good to use, but i live inland and would prefer a plant that's more compact.
but what if you want to grow your own oil-yielding crop? which plant yields the most oil, and is the easiest to process? i've heard that coconuts are good to use, but i live inland and would prefer a plant that's more compact.
Could someone explain the 3600 rpm thing? Is he saying i should get more then 3600?
G
Guest
T.doT.Toker said:
Evening Toker, you want a generator that doesn't run over 1800 rpm. These generator's that you usally find at Lowes, Home Depot, Wal-mart most run at higher RPM's. Mostly at a RPM of about 3600 RPM. This is a high running generator that won't last for long term use. These are good for a cheap power source as for Hurricane season and power is out for a few days, but you don't want to be running a grow with one of these units. You want a generator unit at a maxium RPM of about 1800. These units last a long time and have less repair's. I hope this helps you out. More then happy to answer any onter questions.
Take care,
BG
Didn't see this thread
Didn't see this thread
I been looking into this for some time now.
Wind is too expensive per KW...only because the towers cost so damn much to put up. If you run under 1k you can put the tower up your self but over that and you need a licensed contractor ( At least in my area ) WAY TOO MUCH MONEY. 1K wont do you much.
Solar well unless you can buy Used Pannels and they run about the same for New, your talking a lot of up front cash before you get the State reimbursements, but the Cells last a long time and little maintance is nessary.
Hydro is cost efficient but you need a creek or some other water sorce.
That lead me to Diesel cheap to start up, Minus Batteries! Low Maintenance.
But everyone into BioDiesel has the Local Resurants hit up already you'd be lucky to find Old Veg Oil even for sale these days, Of course every area is different you might get lucky! You can make your own BioDiesel but that not cheap as you have to have a sorce of Oil and a lot of it.
Also depending on How much you use for OTHER things,ie; Tractors or cars or a small wood shop in the back? The Diesel People have turned Growers in with no outward sign of NEED.
In other words a 20K Genarator is more than most homes need.. even a lot of small farms. So you have to have some sort of reason to be buying a lot of diesel. People wonder.
But I think it's the best way to go in the long haul. Batteries now day last you 20 years and coast around 500 each but they Run to almost empty before you need to crank the Gen again. Golf Cart Deep Cycle Battries will work for a short time... very Short time.. but can be done.
I'm looking into doing this on a farm... but right now it's only has a Gas Gen and they wont hack it for my purposes. They Burn Out to quick and don't supply enough power any way.
Theres a lot to this, of course in some areas you can sell the power back to the utillity and MAKE Money, other areas you can only TRADE Off the Extra power and get free power.. still not a bad option.
But I was thinking Yeah get a Tractor with a PTO and 60K Diesel and sell power back tot he Utility. Check out Farm Auctions for cheap Gens and I think a Tractor is the best way to go, you can use it for other things when not Generating power for your battries.
Used Solar Cells on EBAY ARE NOT CMEMORY! But if you can find a good sorce it's a step in the right direction.
I know of 4 people in my state BUSTED using Gens. The Diesel sales people turned 2 in and 1 was going to the same Hardware store for his PVC Water Pipe, Not sure how the other guys was caught.
I like the Diesel Generator idea... just make sure you do your home work well before you do it and you should do JUST DANDY!
Sin
Didn't see this thread
I been looking into this for some time now.
Wind is too expensive per KW...only because the towers cost so damn much to put up. If you run under 1k you can put the tower up your self but over that and you need a licensed contractor ( At least in my area ) WAY TOO MUCH MONEY. 1K wont do you much.
Solar well unless you can buy Used Pannels and they run about the same for New, your talking a lot of up front cash before you get the State reimbursements, but the Cells last a long time and little maintance is nessary.
Hydro is cost efficient but you need a creek or some other water sorce.
That lead me to Diesel cheap to start up, Minus Batteries! Low Maintenance.
But everyone into BioDiesel has the Local Resurants hit up already you'd be lucky to find Old Veg Oil even for sale these days, Of course every area is different you might get lucky! You can make your own BioDiesel but that not cheap as you have to have a sorce of Oil and a lot of it.
Also depending on How much you use for OTHER things,ie; Tractors or cars or a small wood shop in the back? The Diesel People have turned Growers in with no outward sign of NEED.
In other words a 20K Genarator is more than most homes need.. even a lot of small farms. So you have to have some sort of reason to be buying a lot of diesel. People wonder.
But I think it's the best way to go in the long haul. Batteries now day last you 20 years and coast around 500 each but they Run to almost empty before you need to crank the Gen again. Golf Cart Deep Cycle Battries will work for a short time... very Short time.. but can be done.
I'm looking into doing this on a farm... but right now it's only has a Gas Gen and they wont hack it for my purposes. They Burn Out to quick and don't supply enough power any way.
Theres a lot to this, of course in some areas you can sell the power back to the utillity and MAKE Money, other areas you can only TRADE Off the Extra power and get free power.. still not a bad option.
But I was thinking Yeah get a Tractor with a PTO and 60K Diesel and sell power back tot he Utility. Check out Farm Auctions for cheap Gens and I think a Tractor is the best way to go, you can use it for other things when not Generating power for your battries.
Used Solar Cells on EBAY ARE NOT CMEMORY! But if you can find a good sorce it's a step in the right direction.
I know of 4 people in my state BUSTED using Gens. The Diesel sales people turned 2 in and 1 was going to the same Hardware store for his PVC Water Pipe, Not sure how the other guys was caught.
I like the Diesel Generator idea... just make sure you do your home work well before you do it and you should do JUST DANDY!
Sin
G
Guest
Sinfuldreams
Hey, glad you found the thread. I'm totally sorry for not linking you. I remember you asking me for the link awhile back. SOrry, totally slipper my mind.
I think generator are the way to go. I've looked into solar and will most likely later on down the road. Have a nice solar unit added to a new home that i'll have built. The unit will be design in with the home as the plans are drawn up. Solar, is a good source of clean power and power can be sold back to the companies by running the meter backwards. As for you buddies getting busted. I find that odd that they where bust from the dealership or whatever place they bought the generator's. I'm sure it happen, but i don't understand how they would know they where growing. Unless, they bought hugh generator that where totaly way to large for what is normal. I think if one is going to go that route. Buy your unit from a source far away and truck the unit in yourself. Pay for it in a way that it can not be tracked back to you and your home. As for fuel and suppling your unit. Nothing beat's a good old farm truck with a fuel tank. You got to remember one word "Camouflage". If you got the money for a generator, then you got money for a 1 ton farm truck. What i would do is get a truck with a fuel tank. Buy fuel from different locations. Even a town or two over and then so often have fuel trucked in from time to time. Have a hand pump fuel tank on the side of a barn with pump. Just make it look like your using it for your farm truck "Camouflage" and tracks or heating. Your on a farm and no one is going to really ask much. This is what i would do. I'm no pro, but this is how i would do it. Just trying to help out and learn myself. Glad to thread is sparking members thoughts. Take care all and post that info.
BG
Hey, glad you found the thread. I'm totally sorry for not linking you. I remember you asking me for the link awhile back. SOrry, totally slipper my mind.
I think generator are the way to go. I've looked into solar and will most likely later on down the road. Have a nice solar unit added to a new home that i'll have built. The unit will be design in with the home as the plans are drawn up. Solar, is a good source of clean power and power can be sold back to the companies by running the meter backwards. As for you buddies getting busted. I find that odd that they where bust from the dealership or whatever place they bought the generator's. I'm sure it happen, but i don't understand how they would know they where growing. Unless, they bought hugh generator that where totaly way to large for what is normal. I think if one is going to go that route. Buy your unit from a source far away and truck the unit in yourself. Pay for it in a way that it can not be tracked back to you and your home. As for fuel and suppling your unit. Nothing beat's a good old farm truck with a fuel tank. You got to remember one word "Camouflage". If you got the money for a generator, then you got money for a 1 ton farm truck. What i would do is get a truck with a fuel tank. Buy fuel from different locations. Even a town or two over and then so often have fuel trucked in from time to time. Have a hand pump fuel tank on the side of a barn with pump. Just make it look like your using it for your farm truck "Camouflage" and tracks or heating. Your on a farm and no one is going to really ask much. This is what i would do. I'm no pro, but this is how i would do it. Just trying to help out and learn myself. Glad to thread is sparking members thoughts. Take care all and post that info.
BG
Interesting. Do you know if any good name brands i can get in ontario? Diesel, 4k to 10k. Ive tried googling but i cant find anything. Also, do you know where i could find basic info on diesel generators. I need a "Dummies guide to.."
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)))GoldDustWomen said:
Yes I thought being on a farm would keep questions to a minium. Never thought about HEATING!
And it sure as hell would if it where a WORKING Farm... not a Hobby Farm.
One thing working in my favor is this SPOT has No Access to City Power! It has to run Solar or Gen. So that will keep most people happy.
Sin
T.doT.Toker said:Interesting. Do you know if any good name brands i can get in ontario? Diesel, 4k to 10k. Ive tried googling but i cant find anything. Also, do you know where i could find basic info on diesel generators. I need a "Dummies guide to.."
There are MANY Brand Name, John Deer, Onan, Tons more.
Most all of them use the same engines and parts.
There are Stand alone units that can fit in a Shelter, there are PTO ( Power Take Off ) that require a Vehicle with a PTO, like tractor or truck.
I'd google up a sales site and look at what they have for sale... I learn a lot form the Adds.
But I f I was buying one..... unless I had alot of money, I'd go to a few FARM Auctions, I've seen 40Ks go for less than 500 bucks..... New ones can run a lot of cash, especially if water cooled and in an Enclosure.
Good Luck
Sin
When I was looking at gensets I was thinking about this one here
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/2100GM.asp?page=2100GM
Isuzu 21K diesel genset. At full output it burns 1.01 gallons an hour. So you could run 30 600 watt lamps and still have power left over for pumps and fans......at $3 a gallon for diesel (cheaper without road tax) that will run you roughly $1100 a month running 12/12. Roughly 15 cents a KWH. If I was to run 20k 12/12 on the grid I would pay $720 through the local utility @ 10 cents a KWH.
Don't forget to do the math to compare different generators. For instance the same Isuzu generator in the 12.5 KWH model uses .9 gallons an hour at full load. So that is going to cost you 22.5 cents per KWH at $3.00 a gallon. You would be better off going with the 21k and not running it at full power. The 21k at half power is going to run you 17.4 cents per KWH at $3.00 a gallon.
Remember, do the math. For instance the same place that sells the Isuzu sell another genset that they claim is "The most fuel efficient generator we have ever seen". It sure sounds nice, and it only runs .34 gallons an hour at continous load of 4500 KW. but when you do the math it actually costs 22.6 cents per KWH. So that is clearly not as efficient as the isuzu 21k.
To figure out the cost per KWH here is the math.
gallons per hour x Cost per gallon / KWH
So for the 21k (continous 20k) it would be 1.01 x $3.00 / 20 = 0.1515 or roughly 15 cents per KWH
Now where do I find a 500 gallon diesel tank for cheap?
edit: I changed all the calculations to reflect continuos power output. The isuzu 21k unit actually is rated for continuos use at 20k. Numbers above reflect that change.
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/2100GM.asp?page=2100GM
Isuzu 21K diesel genset. At full output it burns 1.01 gallons an hour. So you could run 30 600 watt lamps and still have power left over for pumps and fans......at $3 a gallon for diesel (cheaper without road tax) that will run you roughly $1100 a month running 12/12. Roughly 15 cents a KWH. If I was to run 20k 12/12 on the grid I would pay $720 through the local utility @ 10 cents a KWH.
Don't forget to do the math to compare different generators. For instance the same Isuzu generator in the 12.5 KWH model uses .9 gallons an hour at full load. So that is going to cost you 22.5 cents per KWH at $3.00 a gallon. You would be better off going with the 21k and not running it at full power. The 21k at half power is going to run you 17.4 cents per KWH at $3.00 a gallon.
Remember, do the math. For instance the same place that sells the Isuzu sell another genset that they claim is "The most fuel efficient generator we have ever seen". It sure sounds nice, and it only runs .34 gallons an hour at continous load of 4500 KW. but when you do the math it actually costs 22.6 cents per KWH. So that is clearly not as efficient as the isuzu 21k.
To figure out the cost per KWH here is the math.
gallons per hour x Cost per gallon / KWH
So for the 21k (continous 20k) it would be 1.01 x $3.00 / 20 = 0.1515 or roughly 15 cents per KWH
Now where do I find a 500 gallon diesel tank for cheap?
edit: I changed all the calculations to reflect continuos power output. The isuzu 21k unit actually is rated for continuos use at 20k. Numbers above reflect that change.
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I just called the local Fuel Company and diesel for off road use is $2.69/gallon. So the Isuzu 21k actually would only cost 13.6 cents per KWH. right around 35% more than I would pay at my power company, but in other places I have lived I would actually have saved money. In rural areas it is not uncommon to pay over 20 cents KWH for power.
Edit: reflects continous output of 20k for isuzu genset.
Edit: reflects continous output of 20k for isuzu genset.
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G
Guest
Nice post Pico, i'll be looking into one of these units. Very nice information for everyone to learn from. I'll be setting up a gernator for sure, but don't know if it wll be for grow or both house and grow.
Great post,
BG
Great post,
BG
I don't know why there isn't a standardized rating for how efficient these gensets are. It would be really easy to develop something like that. For instance if you just cut the price per gallon out of the equation you could get a numbers that reflects gallons per kw hour. From now on I will use GPKWH. I just made this up, but it could very well be in use already.
like this
gallons burned per hour / continous kilowatt output = GPKWH
so for the isuzu 21k genset (I must like this thing) the equation would look like this.
1.01 / 20 = .0505 GPKWH
so at full load, you are using .0505 GPKWH. Obviously the lower the number the better.
For comparison, here is the John Deer 30kW unit. Burns 2.4 gallons per hour.
2.4 / 30 = .08 GPKWH
So not as efficient as the Isuzu 21kW. I was crunching the numbers this morning for a bunch of different gensets, and you don't get much more efficient than the Isuzu 21k. Even the larger gensets you think might beat it out, but that is not the case. The Deutz 142kW is the best efficiency I found in the high power range, but that is a lot of power.
Isuzu 10kW - .085 GPKWH
Kubota 21kW - .0492 GPKWH
Isuzu 21kw - .0505 GPKWH
Perkins 100kW - .061 GPKWH
John Deer 140 kW - .0806 GPKWH
John Deer 216kW - .07 GPKWH
duetz 142kW - .0505 GPKWH
So the Kobuto 21kw was the most efficient I found. I didn't see any warranty info for that unit though and the Isuzu has 5 years on the engine and generator. 100% coverage for parts and labor. Plus it says it is suitable for sensative power requirements and the kobuto doesn't say it is in the ad. Did I mention the Isuzu is cheaper as well? $6500 for the basic model. $8000 if you want an aluminum enclosure to reduce sound. Or if you spend $10000 you can have one on a trailer, or an automatic model. Free shipping at www.generatorsales.com
like this
gallons burned per hour / continous kilowatt output = GPKWH
so for the isuzu 21k genset (I must like this thing) the equation would look like this.
1.01 / 20 = .0505 GPKWH
so at full load, you are using .0505 GPKWH. Obviously the lower the number the better.
For comparison, here is the John Deer 30kW unit. Burns 2.4 gallons per hour.
2.4 / 30 = .08 GPKWH
So not as efficient as the Isuzu 21kW. I was crunching the numbers this morning for a bunch of different gensets, and you don't get much more efficient than the Isuzu 21k. Even the larger gensets you think might beat it out, but that is not the case. The Deutz 142kW is the best efficiency I found in the high power range, but that is a lot of power.
Isuzu 10kW - .085 GPKWH
Kubota 21kW - .0492 GPKWH
Isuzu 21kw - .0505 GPKWH
Perkins 100kW - .061 GPKWH
John Deer 140 kW - .0806 GPKWH
John Deer 216kW - .07 GPKWH
duetz 142kW - .0505 GPKWH
So the Kobuto 21kw was the most efficient I found. I didn't see any warranty info for that unit though and the Isuzu has 5 years on the engine and generator. 100% coverage for parts and labor. Plus it says it is suitable for sensative power requirements and the kobuto doesn't say it is in the ad. Did I mention the Isuzu is cheaper as well? $6500 for the basic model. $8000 if you want an aluminum enclosure to reduce sound. Or if you spend $10000 you can have one on a trailer, or an automatic model. Free shipping at www.generatorsales.com
G
Guest
I personally have a Kubota tractor and love the unit. I would mind owning one of their gernator's either, but that Isuzu is a sweet deal. I'm going to be looking into it myself and if all the numbers are there. I'll be pickin up a unit for my place. 21kW's, now what can I do with all those kW's. I wonder. Oh, saw a small fuel truck this morning on the highway. I think if this units burns as less at stated. I think the normal 100 gal tool box truck tank will work fine. Find a local gas station that sells farm diesel and just pick up your own fuel. Get a nice size fuel tank and make your own trips for fuel. Great thread, keep the info coming.
Later,
BG
Later,
BG
