landrace phenos from s1 seeds....

[englishrick]

so i hear....

"most s1`s from cheese grow into landrace phenos"...



so it got me thinking,,,,,are these landrace phenos good examples of the parents that were used to make the mother??

if so... is it possible to s1 haze from TFD and find old lines ???

 

[dubi]

so i hear....

"most s1`s from cheese grow into landrace phenos"...



so it got me thinking,,,,,are these landrace phenos good examples of the parents that were used to make the mother??

if so... is it possible to s1 haze from TFD and find old lines ???

It's very difficult, almost impossible to obtain pure landrace genotype from a hybrid, at least without lab and deep biology knowledge. You should track firstly genes which represent your parental lines, then try to find the closest genome to the original parental plant in the hybrid. Maybe a hybrid pheno expression is close to one of your old parental plants but hybrid genotype is still hybridized and not true breeding for the traits that parental lines were.

And are you looking for a concrete true breeding trait or most true breeding traits that represent your landrace parental plant?? It takes LOTS of generations to become a hybrid into a true breeding inbred line and you'll probably end up with something quite different to the parental lines that were used to bred the hybrid you are working with.

Selfing cheese clone you maybe can fix her aroma but you wont find pure afghani expressions or pure colombian expressions, colombian or afghani dominants maybe but it's not possible to restore original parental genome. That's why is so important to keep landrace/and stable breds in pure form for future, once it's crossed you can not go back.

 

[englishrick]

i understand that they are still hybrids and not true IBL`s,

the same person who found landrace phenos in the cheese,he also picked the most indica types and crossed them back together....the seeds showed plants very similar to cheese

i emigine that it is also possible to make it more of an indica...or more sativa depending on your choice of "recombined landrace phenos"

 

[dubi]

Hello rick,

i understand that they are still hybrids and not true IBL`s,

the same person who found landrace phenos in the cheese,he also picked the most indica types and crossed them back together....the seeds showed plants very similar to cheese

i emigine that it is also possible to make it more of an indica...or more sativa depending on your choice of "recombined landrace phenos"

It depends on the kind of hybrid you are trying self. It's not the same try to self a 4 way outcross elite clone or a semi stabilized F4 thai x afghani. I depends a lot on the hybrid stability and how many traits are you looking to breed with.

Cheese is a Skunk, and Skunk is a true breeding plant for a few traits... Selfing skunk produces plants that mostly flower, smell and resists like skunk, as you said some will be a little more sativa, other slighty more indica....

Skunk strong aroma comes from the afghani, but this doesnt mean you can get the original afghani genotype by selfing your skunk, and rarely a very dominant afghani pheno, skunk has been inbred too much for that kind of pheno disgregation.

 

[englishrick]

i know what you mean when you say hybrid stability...this is why i was so interested when i hear cheese is throwing out landrace phenos

i am under the impression that cheese has been inbread since just after samS turned it into a pollyhybrid..

is it possible we are seeing .....the "di hybrids"???

allso i agree......it depends on how many traits you want to work with.....true.....but maybe some are more mex.... some are more afgahn....etc

 

[englishrick]

il give it a go if knowone want to tell me im stupid


pleaase do!!

 

[englishrick]

^^this was a very old thread!!!,,,,,,i had 50 Cheese S1 mothers untill recently and none looked like landrace phenos!!..i tryed to put 4 in a friends house an my mate scraped them all in fear of losing money,,,S1 cheese are all very similar plants!!,, nothing looks like a mexi sativa or the cheese!!,,,

the cheese trait is oviously recessive!!,,,,it will need recombination to raise its head proppely!!

unfortunatly ,Cheese S1`s are just crappy afghan dom skunk plants,,,

 

[medmaker420]

well its good you were able to grow em out and find out for yourself. Who known what can come from the recessive crossing out though. I like looking for recessive traits far more than dom traits personally. Just like with most things, the recessives can carry the gold, that is if you can locate and lock em in.

 

[indifferent]

I remember when I used CS to revert the Exodus Cheese and posted pics, someone chimed in with the info that selfing the Cheese produced 'crappy landrace phenos'. Well, I laughed at the time as that person clearly didn't understand what a landrace is.

Thanks for explaining it dubi.

I really don't get this obsession with old lines like Skunk. There is one guy who fills up countless threads with his Cheese breeding project, well what a waste of time, all he is doing is trying to bottleneck the skunk #1 line into one recessive pheno. What a waste of resources, he would make much better use of his space and time and effort if he did some proper breeding with new lines rather than wading about in an old polyhybrid with a very murky lineage.

Crappy Afghan dom skunk plant describes Cheese pretty well imho, it has that unusual smell/taste but apart from that, it's nothing more than a crappy old Skunk.

There are much, much better skunk #1 phenos to be found than Cheese, just the modern day skunk #1 offerings are pretty highly worked into a homogenous line these days. However, if you grow Skunk from Seedsman, it's still the old version they bought in bulk from Sam, and it still has variation with Mexican and Colombian phenos that go upto 13 weeks. Those phenos piss all over Cheese, in fact half the phenos out of Seedsman's Skunk piss all over Cheese.

 

[bombadil.360]

none looked like landrace phenos

what does a landrace looks like, rick?

land races looks vary so much, that you cannot go by the looks of plants to determine what is or is not a landrace.

peace

 

[englishrick]

none of the S1 looked like extreem sativas,,,,

pure aco.gold,,,, pure col, gold,,,,and a pure Afghan landrace`s were used to make SK1,,,,nothing in the S1`s fitted any of them Landrace profiles,,,,

S1 cheese are like a crap Skunk incross!!

 

[bombadil.360]

rick, not all landrace sativas look like the stereo-typed sativa image that floats around.

take a Lesotho landrace that is Sativa for example. it is short, flowers pretty fast, and the leaves are neither thin nor thick; it looks like a hybrid actually.

peace

 

[indifferent]

If it looks like a hybrid, it will be a hybrid. Lesotho, like all of South Africa, had been a veritable melting pot of genes from all over the place for a couple of centuries now.

Ciskei Bushmanns is also said to be a pure sativa, it's not, it's definitely a hybrid, maybe 70% sativa.

Often sats when grown indoors grow fatter leaves due to the lower light levels. I have a Mexican that indoors grows fattish leaves in veg and fairly fat ones in flower, but outdoors, the leaves are really thin.

 

[englishrick]

i think the cheese itself looks more like a landrace [in veg] than any of its S1`s,,,,its totaly a mexi sativa throwback in some respects!!......i was lookin for that zigzag veg profile like the cheese has but i didnt see 1 good mexi type in 50 plants, some S1`s came close to making propper zigzags but nothin looked propper and that Afghan smell just felt like it was impossible to find,,

im sure it needs recombination to show the traits im looking for,,,,

 

[englishrick]

I remember when I used CS to revert the Exodus Cheese and posted pics, someone chimed in with the info that selfing the Cheese produced 'crappy landrace phenos'. Well, I laughed at the time as that person clearly didn't understand what a landrace is.

yeh,,i remember that guy,,,,he is the whole reason i started this thread ..he was wrong,,,an imo the cheese itself looks more like a landrace than any of its S1`s

I really don't get this obsession with old lines like Skunk. There is one guy who fills up countless threads with his Cheese breeding project, well what a waste of time, all he is doing is trying to bottleneck the skunk #1 line into one recessive pheno. What a waste of resources, he would make much better use of his space and time and effort if he did some proper breeding with new lines rather than wading about in an old polyhybrid with a very murky lineage.

Crappy Afghan dom skunk plant describes Cheese pretty well imho, it has that unusual smell/taste but apart from that, it's nothing more than a crappy old Skunk.

There are much, much better skunk #1 phenos to be found than Cheese, just the modern day skunk #1 offerings are pretty highly worked into a homogenous line these days. However, if you grow Skunk from Seedsman, it's still the old version they bought in bulk from Sam, and it still has variation with Mexican and Colombian phenos that go upto 13 weeks. Those phenos piss all over Cheese, in fact half the phenos out of Seedsman's Skunk piss all over Cheese.

i gota tell you indi,,,,,

stabilizing the cheese is a major challange,,,,,the cheesey frequency seems to be low in SK1,,,,,no1 has done a good enough job to convince me i can scrap my origonal mother!!,,,,if i thought i could scrap my mother id move onto another project!!

sooner or later im gona try seedsman`s skunk, but at the min im messin with toms X18 and sols OG x BlueSat2.2,,,,,,,

do you think i could find something similar to the blue clone in seedsman`s skunk indi???,,,it says alot for vintage seeds!!

 

[indifferent]

The Blues clone is, I think, either Skunk x Afghan or Skunk x NL5, my money is on it being skunk x NL5, the berry taste in it reminds me of NL a lot.

With X18 and OG x BS2.2 to mess with, I'd leave the Skunk be, you already have superior genes imho.

You're correct imho about there being a lot of Mexi influence in Skunk, it looks mostly Mexican to my eyes. Look at this pure Oaxacan cola, then imagine it crossed to a afghan dom afghan x colombian and you see what I mean...

You mention the zig-zag trait in Cheese, well take a look at this:

That's the Oaxacan clone, look familiar?

This is also the Oaxacan clone, bad example, overfed (too hot soil mix), had some mite problems, but don't it look skunky?

 

[englishrick]

the zigzag in your pick is a fine example of what i was trying to find!!,,,cheese S1 are extreemly homogeneous but not for that trait,,its a massive shame!! ...[ive been told by a specialist that my reversed backcross would solve issues with homozygote
genepairs],,fuk knows if it will work

hay indi,,i think you should try the blues clone again bro,,,id like to here a re-verdict,,,i cant see the NL in there,,but then again im not overly familiar with good old NL ,,,it looks identical to cheese in but stocky then the blue foxtails real easy because its not as heat tollerent as cheese,,,



X18 and OGBS2.2,,,, @indi...its sumt different init,,im gona incross the X18 with my maximum Ne numbers "keep that shiz for the future",

il probbly just keep a indervidual female from the OG x BlueSat2,2 i hear it taste like bluecandykush, some talk about grape tastes

 

[englishrick]

this zigzag just vanished in the S1

 

[B. Friendly]

Societies Definition: Landrace refers to domesticated animals or plants adapted to the natural and cultural environment in which they live (or originated) and, in some cases, work. They often develop naturally with minimal assistance or guidance from humans using traditional breeding methods. Landraces differ somewhat from what is commonly termed a breed, and usually possess more diverse phenotypes and genotypes. They often form the basis of more highly-bred formalised breeds. Sometimes a formalised breed retains the "landrace" name, despite no longer being a true landrace.


My thoughts in regards to Landrace Cannabis: In my thoughts it refers to a strain that is kept and held by Indigenous Peoples within a certain region and kept pure of all outside Cannabis strains and Influences. I feel that Thai, Chile, Himalaya, Afghani and the likes are what true searchers of landraces use as a leveling bar when searching out true landraces. Plants that have not been touched by what we consider modern society, have not been influenced by anyone except for nature and the people indigenous to each specific strains location.

from Reservationslabs

 

[indifferent]

this zigzag just vanished in the S1

Nice Cheese, very branchy too. I will try the Blues again mate, I remember it being like a berry smelling stockier cheese. I'm not at all convinced that The Blues isn't also being passed round as Cheese these days cos I seen and smoked Cheeses that weren't the Exodus and had a berry smell/taste.