War

[moose eater]

I'll continue to disagree with what the goal of a protest is. If the goal is to sacrifice yourself to cause a disruption to institutions that you damn well know are unlikely to care about your stance, then these are doing a great job.

To me that is a temper tantrum. And its not effecting any change. Go ahead and cheer lead these people as they get squashed by the powers that be and not make hardly one bit of difference, they can be righteous, but it will be for nothing and it will be erased from history more or less.

I was mistaken when I thought the point of a demonstration was to call attention to an issue and sway public opinion to your side. I thought the point was to deliver a message that is being ignored by the mainstream. Well now the message is lost - they have gotten disorganized, overly emotional, and defensive. The only message coming through is the disruption.

Who have they won over? Which University is going to consider their demands (and not in theater)?

I fully understand its David vs Goliath for these folks, and they will lose - badly. Its not something I am happy to see. Unlike others I actually believe that violence upheaval is not necessary to bring social change. I think some believe its the only way. I guess it will hurt the image of the Universities a bit, and possible slow enrollment a little bit.

In my opinion a message resonates more clearly when you are not attacking anyone and also not allow allow yourself to be the victim of anyone else's attack against your cause. It appears to me that anger and hate are elevated from where this began, sometimes you have to pick your battles, stand down temporarily, and regroup.

Anyways we can agree to disagree. I feel bad for the people who's ribs are being crushed and heads are getting bashed is all. And I also disagree very much with how the administrations are handling/reacting in kind. They cannot stand to honest about what they really area and what they really stand for, or to be exposed for what they really are. And that is the problem, when the non-violent tactics transform into aggression, the University is off the hook for their heavy handed response.

At least one of the universities (Brown) has now agreed to hold a vote on divestment from Israel.

I'd say that's some success... via nothing more than providing a spectacle and disrupting business-as-usual. A turn that would not have likely occurred otherwise.

And the pro-Palestinian protestors on campus have not been violent. That's been mainstream spin, and nothing more.

 

[moose eater]

View attachment 18996353

Podcast via the Intercept:

Somewhat (now)-famous philosopher and gender studies professor says, 'No" to Israel's amplified justifications for genocide.

Judith Butler Will Not Co-Sign Israel’s Alibi for Genocide

The famed scholar Judith Butler talks to Jeremy Scahill and Murtaza Hussain on why reducing Hamas to a terrorist label sanctions Israel’s war on Palestinians.

theintercept.com

 

[moose eater]

More protest success(es). In Texas and elsewhere, professors are signing off on 'no-confidence' letters re. campus Presidents who used harsh police intervention unnecessarily re. the protests, and other reasons.

College Presidents Face Faculty Backlash As Campus Protests Spread

As protests over the Israel-Hamas war spread to campuses nationwide, more college presidents are coming under fire, from both outside critics and their own faculty.

www.forbes.com

Looks like more successes to me... I think fewer sold-out university presidents, maybe now caused to lie less to the public by being outed and, thus, spinning the MSM narrative less by being put on notice, is a good thing. A very good thing.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

I just read the local Jewish community actually did condemn the actions of that mob, whether you take that as genuine or not is up to you but they (the LA Jewish Federation) did speak out against the violence of the few.

 

[Cannavore]

 

[moose eater]

"When those who swear an oath to uphold the law, instead choose to violate the law, then there is no law."

 

[moose eater]

In fact, it looks as though Israel's decades of fuck-ups and the protests against them are having SIGNIFICANT impact of positive sort... Not just in the US, but worldwide..

Good to see people waking up!! Too much sleep is not healthy... for the body -or- the soul...

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

 

[moose eater]

I just read the local Jewish community actually did condemn the actions of that mob, whether you take that as genuine or not is up to you but they (the LA Jewish Federation) did speak out against the violence of the few.

Many practicing and non-practicing Jews around the world, including in the US, support the pro-Palestinian protests. That isn't an issue. Jewish Voices for Peace is but one example of such groups.

It's the Nationalist Zionist fascists supporting the continuation of land theft and genocide in Gaza and the long-standing apartheid structure there, as well as their various blood-money AIPAC funds, and the bought-and-paid-for lackeys in this Country and elsewhere who are the source of (sometimes violent) support for the pro-Israeli Nationalist Zionist violence at some/many of the protests (that's being under-reported) who are at issue in this case.

 

[Cannavore]

 

[Cannavore]

 

[moose eater]

And I'm not sure this is the SCOTUS I'd want such a question going in front of. Otherwise, I'd be fairly confident that such bullshit would be a matter of nothing more than posturing, and know that it would go down in flames in front of any more balanced court.

I've already signed petitions re. this issue, though have little faith they hold much water in this disconnected Congress scene.

Our only US House member in Alaska, Mary Peltola, a moderate Dem and Alaska Native woman, even voted in favor of the last weapons shipment to Israel, despite it violating National and international laws.

And if an Alaska Native woman doesn't understand the impact of empire and its effect on persecuted peoples, then who the fuck does? Granted, it's an election year for her and she has numerous pro-life zealots lining up to unseat her with HUGE national money from PACs

 

[EastCoastGambit]

Even with masks I'm sure everyone of those people are known and identified regardless. If they really believe a surgical mask is protecting their identify then that is really not too well informed.

 

[Microbeman]

 

[moose eater]

Even with masks I'm sure everyone of those people are known and identified regardless. If they really believe a surgical mask is protecting their identify then that is really not too well informed.

What makes you think they're wearing them solely for purposes of concealing identity?

I suspect many are still subscribing to 'safety in group settings' re. COVID, especially in consideration of their likely socio-political views.

 

[EastCoastGambit]

I think I'm going to head over to some of these demonstrations soon to chat/engage with folks and bear witness. I'm in MA, there's plenty nearby.

 

[moose eater]

View attachment 18996635

That's essentially the position of the hardcore Zionist Nationalist fascist Israelis; they believe that God has promised them 'Zion', their Holy Land, though they seem to willfully/delusionally ignore the many rabbis' beliefs that this is a promise made to be kept by their God, not by Bibi and the US-provided M-4s and illegally used white phosphorous cannisters.

 

[Cannavore]