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Seedling Feed Rate Experiment
- Thread starter Dave Coulier
- Start date
Day 23 Update
Day 23 Update
Its Day 23 now, and Im going to call this experiment. I dont see much value in continuing any longer. I believe we've arrived at some fairly conclusive results by this point, and that the control group is our obvious loser. Ill begin with some pics of our control plants as well as the ones that were moved over to 150N group at Day 11 If my memory serves me right.
I do plan on having ALOT of pics coming forth over the next day or so stay tuned and have your bandwidth ready!
Pretty obvious difference in growth in just those 12 days they were being fed. The control group weren't actually too far behind in terms of nodes of growth. No more than 2 nodes on most of them, but the glaring difference is in leaf expansion. With no nutrients applied, leaf expansion came to a grinding halt. The nodes are also stacking too tightly as well. Their poor miserable existence is coming to an end tonight. Ive got 4 Super Silver Haze x WhiteWidow soaking in some water and bioworks rootshield plus granular atm. I dropped one seed on the ground and couldn't find it.
Thanks for the gift Classic. I can't wait to delve into these and see what gems you sent my way.
Day 23 Update
Its Day 23 now, and Im going to call this experiment. I dont see much value in continuing any longer. I believe we've arrived at some fairly conclusive results by this point, and that the control group is our obvious loser. Ill begin with some pics of our control plants as well as the ones that were moved over to 150N group at Day 11 If my memory serves me right.
I do plan on having ALOT of pics coming forth over the next day or so stay tuned and have your bandwidth ready!
Pretty obvious difference in growth in just those 12 days they were being fed. The control group weren't actually too far behind in terms of nodes of growth. No more than 2 nodes on most of them, but the glaring difference is in leaf expansion. With no nutrients applied, leaf expansion came to a grinding halt. The nodes are also stacking too tightly as well. Their poor miserable existence is coming to an end tonight. Ive got 4 Super Silver Haze x WhiteWidow soaking in some water and bioworks rootshield plus granular atm. I dropped one seed on the ground and couldn't find it.
Thanks for the gift Classic. I can't wait to delve into these and see what gems you sent my way.
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Now we get to see the control plants turned 150N. The leaf tip scorching on all these plants came to a quick halt once I provided enough N for them. I think they could still feed at a higher level tbh, but that's for another time.
Some may find it odd how we get leaf tip scorching so severely with an N deficiency. Most of the time on these boards whenever we see a plant with leaf tip scorching its always contributed to too much N 90+% of the time. Yet these seedlings developed brown tips and steadily worsened. Ive seen the same thing happen on my GN Thai Stick when soil solution fertility dropped to unhealthy levels. You can tell the difference between too little N or too much by leaf color. Chlorotic= too low. Deep Green=Too high.
Oh btw, have I mentioned you should be feeding your seedlings yet?
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Now we get to see the control plants turned 150N. The leaf tip scorching on all these plants came to a quick halt once I provided enough N for them. I think they could still feed at a higher level tbh, but that's for another time.
Some may find it odd how we get leaf tip scorching so severely with an N deficiency. Most of the time on these boards whenever we see a plant with leaf tip scorching its always contributed to too much N 90+% of the time. Yet these seedlings developed brown tips and steadily worsened. Ive seen the same thing happen on my GN Thai Stick when soil solution fertility dropped to unhealthy levels. You can tell the difference between too little N or too much by leaf color. Chlorotic= too low. Deep Green=Too high.
Oh btw, have I mentioned you should be feeding your seedlings yet?
The 3 Amigos
The 3 Amigos
The 3 Amigos
you don't know what i'm talking about but...
Myth Busted
you're doing great work here, keep it up.
you don't know what i'm talking about but...
Myth Busted
you're doing great work here, keep it up.
And the mystery deepens..Does it have anything to do with ROOTS!?!?!
Maybe something akin to 'roots need wet/dry cycles so they will grow in search more water and nutrients'? If its not that myth, color me intrigued.
lol nah i was telling people only new roots are white, when they hit air or dry out they start turning dingy and brown. but your roots in the middle are white unless you broke that soil apart then waited for roots to grow out before taking the pic.
Your on the money when you say they turn brown or dingy when they dry out. If I allowed the rootball to dry out, those white fuzzy roots would end up dingy brown and there wouldn't be much root hairs left, so I always try to keep it nice and moist down there.
As long as humidity remains high enough exposed roots will stay nice, white and fuzzy. Humidity is the key for exposed roots though. The spot I took the pic was just a small cavity in the side of the rootball. I didn't break away any media from it.
Im about over Winter at this point! I just spent the last few hours fixing burst water pipes and making multiple trips to Lowes for the parts, only to find out at a 4th burst pipe! Argggggg! Ill get that one fixed just to find out a 5th pipe had burst knowing my luck.
Day 25 Update
Day 25 Update
I promised some pics, so Im going to deliver on that.
You can see the N deficiency on the lowest two set of leaves. Along with the overall paler green visible in the overhead pics. The cotyledons went yellow many days ago as well. By the time we see N deficiency on these leaves we've already had days of stunted growth. The deficiency will exist before the symptoms ever manifest themselves. Something to be aware of.
I look forward to transplanting them soon into some 1 gallon containers and letting them stretch their roots a bit. I currently like to keep them in small containers to contain their growth. Otherwise, they will outgrow the space, trigger each others SAR(shade avoidance response). Not completely ideal, but ideal if you're a micro grower or trying to do some breeding in limited space. It can be done.
Day 25 Update
I promised some pics, so Im going to deliver on that.
You can see the N deficiency on the lowest two set of leaves. Along with the overall paler green visible in the overhead pics. The cotyledons went yellow many days ago as well. By the time we see N deficiency on these leaves we've already had days of stunted growth. The deficiency will exist before the symptoms ever manifest themselves. Something to be aware of.
I look forward to transplanting them soon into some 1 gallon containers and letting them stretch their roots a bit. I currently like to keep them in small containers to contain their growth. Otherwise, they will outgrow the space, trigger each others SAR(shade avoidance response). Not completely ideal, but ideal if you're a micro grower or trying to do some breeding in limited space. It can be done.
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Ive still got a few pics left in me. Enjoy. These are all 150 N plants. Even they have a little bit of N deficiency on lowest set of leaves. I think I could up their feed to 160N and be fine in these small containers.
Eh..I think its a tie?
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Ive still got a few pics left in me. Enjoy. These are all 150 N plants. Even they have a little bit of N deficiency on lowest set of leaves. I think I could up their feed to 160N and be fine in these small containers.
Eh..I think its a tie?
You didn't think I was done yet, did you?
You didn't think I was done yet, did you?
Now some shots of the roots of control plants. They're healthy and white. Although lacking in quantity of root hairs and branching is also inhibited. You wont confuse these rootballs for the 150N plant I previously shared. Have you guys fed your seedlings lately?
You didn't think I was done yet, did you?
Now some shots of the roots of control plants. They're healthy and white. Although lacking in quantity of root hairs and branching is also inhibited. You wont confuse these rootballs for the 150N plant I previously shared. Have you guys fed your seedlings lately?
And two more for the close.
And two more for the close.
And two more for the close.
None of your plants look good. Your soil was to hot or something for those seedlings to look like that.
I could plant a seed right now and in the same times as yours it will be better than them all.
Not trying to be a dick because this was a good experiment in theory but something went astray.
I could plant a seed right now and in the same times as yours it will be better than them all.
Not trying to be a dick because this was a good experiment in theory but something went astray.
Kiloz
Member
Either trolling or blind, but most likely just one of "those guys" that seem to be frequenting this site more and more...they don't read the posts, just look at a buncha pics then proceed to run off at the mouth with a diagnosis on how they can do better.
The plants all look stunted. They all already have yellowing bottom leaves. The internal spacing is all jammed up.
Let us just concentrate on the unfertilized seedlings. You all think they look normal? They don't. They are messed up. The 12/12 from seed made this experiment tilted from the get go.
Let us just concentrate on the unfertilized seedlings. You all think they look normal? They don't. They are messed up. The 12/12 from seed made this experiment tilted from the get go.
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they are 21 days from seed with no food. jeez buddy do yourself a favor and learn to read, you're just gonna make yourself look like a dipshit the way you're going.
ILOVETOBERUDE quit being defensive. I chimed in and gave my opinion. I can read and did read. I can also express my point of view better than your aggressive nonsense.
He stated he was doing an experiment to see if seedlings didn't need fertilizer until their cotyledons were used up. That would have been a great experiment. But then he added more factors that just muddled the results.
He used promix. It doesn't have anything in it. No minerals... nothing.
Then he used RO water. It has nothing in it. Nothing.
Then he 12/12 them. That alone ruined the experiment.
Seedlings in nature grow in natural soil. They get water that has minerals and micro nutrients.
In nature they start to sprout when it is 12/12 or less but the day length is getting longer each day. Seedlings won't flower in the spring because they sense the decreasing darkness. They are not sexually mature and sense the decreasing darkness. But with prolonged steady 12/12 they get screwed up.
Cotyledons are food for seedlings and mostly nitrogen. They don't have micronutrients, calcium or magnesium. They expect the plant to get that from the soil and water.
What has happened is that growers, like you and some others, heard outdoor growers who start seeds tell people that seedlings don't need anything for the first few weeks of life because the cotyledons will sustain them.
That got expanded so indoor growers that use promix and coco figured that they can just water with RO water and all will be well. It won't.
This experiment should have been called "Let's find out if seedlings can live in sterile medium, watered with RO water and placed under 12/12 from the very start".
That is way different then "Let's find out if seedlings started in natural soil and watered with rain water need food for the first 4 weeks of life".
How about you try to have a scientific discussion and stop with the BS can't read, didn't read or new person coming on the site. I have been on this site off and on since 2006.
I didn't attack the OP. I merely stated my thoughts. He posted the thread. You think he didn't want feedback or just wanted positive feedback.
There were control flaws in the experiment. It doesn't mean his experiment didn't have merit. It just means if he is searching for the true answer IMHO the experiment needs set up differently.
He stated he was doing an experiment to see if seedlings didn't need fertilizer until their cotyledons were used up. That would have been a great experiment. But then he added more factors that just muddled the results.
He used promix. It doesn't have anything in it. No minerals... nothing.
Then he used RO water. It has nothing in it. Nothing.
Then he 12/12 them. That alone ruined the experiment.
Seedlings in nature grow in natural soil. They get water that has minerals and micro nutrients.
In nature they start to sprout when it is 12/12 or less but the day length is getting longer each day. Seedlings won't flower in the spring because they sense the decreasing darkness. They are not sexually mature and sense the decreasing darkness. But with prolonged steady 12/12 they get screwed up.
Cotyledons are food for seedlings and mostly nitrogen. They don't have micronutrients, calcium or magnesium. They expect the plant to get that from the soil and water.
What has happened is that growers, like you and some others, heard outdoor growers who start seeds tell people that seedlings don't need anything for the first few weeks of life because the cotyledons will sustain them.
That got expanded so indoor growers that use promix and coco figured that they can just water with RO water and all will be well. It won't.
This experiment should have been called "Let's find out if seedlings can live in sterile medium, watered with RO water and placed under 12/12 from the very start".
That is way different then "Let's find out if seedlings started in natural soil and watered with rain water need food for the first 4 weeks of life".
How about you try to have a scientific discussion and stop with the BS can't read, didn't read or new person coming on the site. I have been on this site off and on since 2006.
I didn't attack the OP. I merely stated my thoughts. He posted the thread. You think he didn't want feedback or just wanted positive feedback.
There were control flaws in the experiment. It doesn't mean his experiment didn't have merit. It just means if he is searching for the true answer IMHO the experiment needs set up differently.
