Yellowing Shark/BBC @28days flower

[Ubermensch6]

How long has this problem been going on? noticed 4 days ago
What STRAIN are you growing? Shark Shock and BB Cheese
What was the establishing technique? clone
What is the age of your plants? 3wk veg, 28days of flower
How Tall are the plants?12-18 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?flower
What Technique are you using?SOG
What size pots are you using? 5.25" square
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?50% promix 25% Castings 25% Perlite w/ 1tbs/gal dolomite added
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each with how much water? How Often? (Earth Juice Bloom 1tbs/gal Maxicrop 1tbs/gal FF Grow 1tsp/gal 5ml Blackstrap)every other watering 5ml Liquid K 5ml Blackstrap between feeding
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? around 800
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 7.5 or so
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? phPen
How often are you watering? every 3-4 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?2 days ago, feed ever other watering
What size bulb are you using?1000w HPS
What is the distance to the canopy?3.5 feet
What is your RH Factor?38% atm
What is the canopy temperature?78-82 degrees F
What is the Day/Night Temp? 78-82F day/68-70 night
What is the current Air Flow? 400 or so
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?no
Is your water HARD or SOFT? 150 ppm
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? TAP
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?no
Are plant's infected with pest's?no

Well there ya go. The large fan leaves and older leaves are yellowing uniformly, stems/petioles are deep purple but only on the tops. Getting some nasty necrosis that progresses from greyish copper to black and tends to start at leaf tips and centers(not edges). Leaves tend to curl up from the tips. The yellowing is also much like bleaching. The leaves end up with dark green patterns on them where the light doesn't shine on them(circled in pic). You can see dark green where the leaflets overlap, and in the other pic those aren't shadows they are actually green on the leaf. My guess is P,Mg,Boron lockout from too much Ca in tapwater + constant blackstrap feeding, but it's been years since i've grown plants this small so i'm not sure on their nute requirements. Plants are also light/lime green at the top. hope you guys can help before they get beyond the point of no return. I'm at a loss.

pics are in my gallery. keep getting "Your Post contains one or more URLs, please remove them before submitting your message again." error when adding pics

 

[ShortStackz]

here ya go

 

[MynameStitch]

Can you post a few without the hps light on? I can't really see a problem, because the HPS lights hide the problem a lot. I can tell you right now those plants gotta be rootbound as hell....... why are they in such small pots?

Lift one of those plants out of that pot and take a picture of the roots..... no matter how much nutrients you give if the plants roots are all tied up it won't absorb them correctly and you will get issues.....
You feed every other watering which could be a problem cause that is a long time in between feedings, especially with the plants being cramped.

 

[10k]

Yes I'd like to see better pictures too...
for now though, the very bottom leaf yellowing is pretty normal mid to late flowering.
many symptoms rear their heads in rootboundness, and the run off pH is high.
AND...personally, I'd knock off the maxicrop too

 

[Ubermensch6]

yeah, i hate when people post pics with hps light on as well. haven't slept in a few days thanks to my profs. so i'm a bit loopy. will post new pics tomorrow along with better pics of the size of the plants. The plants aren't quite rootbound. Some of the larger ones are close.

so you think feeding 1tbs/gallon of EJ bloom w/ 5ml blackstrap every 3 days wouldn't be too much? I was leaning toward a P/K overdose that was locking out micro nutes. I had this same problem with their parents. ended up seeing lots of odd micro nute defs that had to due to some kind of lockout. I've never seen a boron or manganese def before and i've been growing lil over 10 years(first time i've grown in soil in over 7)

rechecked pH and it is coming out at 7 as it should. I think the first reading may have been a fluke. thanks guys.

 

[MynameStitch]

There is a big difference in telling what is rootbound and what is not, what you think is rootbound may be severe to us..... pictures would help out a lot

Yes, that is too much for there size. You always go by the size of the plant; never by the directions.... unless your using cannabis nutirents.. like canna, AN and so forth.....

you should be feeding every 5 to 7 days with the way you have your setup.... but no amount of food in the world will fix a deficiency that is caused by plants being rootbound.......

What are you using to test your pH?

 

[Ubermensch6]

better pics as promised

better pics as promised

here are some updated pics. its worsened over just 2 days. even the largest plant isn't rootbound imo, there's still 2 inches of soil that is almost rootless. They are all getting a transpant to 6" pots next weekend tho. I checked the runoff ppms and they were 1100+ even tho i'm feeding around 800ppm. oddly tho. the healthiest cheese had a ppm runoff over 1900+. The tallest(Shark), sickest of the plants had ppm runoff of 960ish. That pheno is picky as hell tho. Had tons of trouble with her mom in veg and flower.

I have oakton ph/tds that have been calibrated recently. Never had a ph or tds pen when i grew in soil ages ago, nor did i even ph my irrigation water..just mixed with tap and watered. Never had these issues before. Does the same ppm in/ppm out rule work with soil w/ organic ferts?

Hopefully you can see the weird bleaching better in these pics. Anywhere light touches the leaf it becomes bleached but areas in shadow stay green. Wth? Its not due to the light being to close. Light is over 3.5 feet from some of the plants.

I included a some gratuitous porn of my crazy lil bbc pheno. The resin on this girl is insane. the fan leaf on the bottom left is almost 4" long and has a light covering of trics out to its tip!

 

[MynameStitch]

Wow, I am shocked it's not worse..... much be the size of the plant looks bigger in comparison then.

Your issue is a common nitrogen deficiency in flowering, since your plants are not very big you want to keep as many fan leaves as possible til about 2 weeks till harvest.

Just feed 1/2 dosage of nitrogen use 1/2 the amount of a veg nute 1/2 the amount that you would use in veg........

fish emulsion works well too.

You have anything that just has nitrogen in it?

 

[10k]

Seriously folks...
This is nothing more than normal natural big fan leaf yellowing of cannabis in flowering, having begun a couple weeks prematurely, probably due to the grower switching to bloom nutes a couple weeks too soon. Call it an N deficiency if it makes you feel better, but ime, its really NOT anything more than just being a couple weeks sooner than desired, and NOT worth N doctoring in the second half of the flowering cycle for crying out loud.

Now in week five of flowering, I sure as hell WOULD NOT be doctoring it with hign N veg nutes !

With those four little budsickles...trust me, let the plants translocate whatever they desire from the biggest fan leaves for the completion of their flowering cycle. At this point those big fan leaves serve almost no purpose better than the totally natural flowering process of the plant using them for a food source by translocation. The budsickles WILL finish just fine and suffer ZERO loss of yield. !!!
Plus they will smoke and taste much better once they're done and most importantly, they will finish on time !

Feeding N in week five of flowering can cause a lot more problems than its worth, such as runaway stringers buds and a somewhat delayed to seriously delayed completion of flowering....not to mention harsh smoke arrgh.

my two cents worth,
10k

ps...lay off the maxicrop & flush the soil soon eh

 

[MynameStitch]

I always feed my plants up until the same week of flowering I feed flower nutes..... 1/2 dosage of veg nutes in flowering. that way they begin to yellow 2 weeks before harvest.......I did not say to give "high veg nutes" where did I say this at?

I said low 1/2 dosage of nitrogen only to slow it down because he still has a little bit time to go by the way the buds are growing those hairs are still mostly white and slightly airy in a few areas and the plants are small and have minimal fan leaves.. he needs to keep them on there a little longer...... where did he say it was 5 weeks flowering?? In his first post it says: What is the age of your plants? 3wk veg, 28days of flower normally if the plants were bigger I would say nothing is needed..... he is only little over 3 weeks flowering time......

I can see what you mean by them being storage tanks and such, all my plants I let yellow like his I ended up having a little slower growth then the ones that were fed with small doses of nitrogen......



Defiantly NOT arguing with you 10k... was just stating why I said what I did... but I did not say give high veg nutes

I said a small amount of nitrogen!

 

[10k]

mns wrote...
You have anything that just has nitrogen in it?

Just nitrogen it it... Where I come from they call that high N

 

[Wannabreed]

Hi, oh yes i would go in same way than 10k & MynameStitch, a bit early yellowing is better than dark green blocked plant :smile:

I had 1 plant that yellowed very fast in 3 first weeks so i added 2 times 1/3 of veg nutes & 2/3 of flowering nutes, seems it helped a bit, but its a 75 days + one.

If i was you but im not hehe... I would add 1 time a bit veg nutes [i tried with minerals] on the most yellow plant (but i dont take any responsability lol)

 

[MynameStitch]

i said fish emulsion too....... N 5 is high nitrogen?

 

[10k]

day 28 flowering was october 30th, which puts the plants in the middle of week five flowering in a few hours by my math.
NOT week three stitch.

 

[10k]

btw...there is a grower on here icmag, who clips off ALL the big fan leaves off the plants at day 21 flowering and has outrageous gpw yields with zero ill effects. Massive fat sog bidsickles. I am NOT kidding, he claims 1.5 gpw in his sog grows growing small indica clones to 'budsickles' similar to the ones pictured in this thread.

Trust me... The plant will take just what it desires from those big fan leaves by way of translocation, the way God or mother nature intended in the natural flowering process of the cannabis plant. The fan leaves serve NO better purpose at this stage of flowering.

 

[MynameStitch]

I stil don't get what you mean the poster has confused me as to when the exact day of flowering........ still those buds don't look like 5 weeks of flowering.

10k show me the thread where this guy grows those at please

I would never recommend anyone cutting leaves off in flowering; even though it does not affect his plants does not mean it will work for anyone.


Edit: Desperate housewives is on!!!! BBL!!!

 

[10k]

Yes, I'd say you were confused about flowering time mns,
But just look at the thread title "@ 28 days flowering" and look at the plants.
They're a good month into bud production in the pics stitch.

Jrosek begining on page three of this thread...
He trims off ALL the fan leaves on day 21 flowering, and again on day 45.
He claims two pounds every 60 days under a 600hps from ten day vegged clonage.
Fantastic sog results with completely unheard of gpw for a short veg clone sog grow.
A totally new twist on the old leaf tuck vs trim for light penetration methodology indeed.
But proof that yield does NOT suffer for lack of a few fan leaves.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=100749&page=3&pp=15

 

[Ubermensch6]

thanks for the help guys. I'll hit them with a lil fish fert next watering and cut back on the EJ bloom/molasses. I felt full str EJ bloom was too much for them but the taller plant is showing P defs...just can't figure that one out. she's picky as hell. the mom had a limegreen/bluegreen tint all through veg and flower. Gotta figure her out. Shes the gem from 2 packs. Double serrated leaves, big fluffy sativa buds, tart lemon pez smell in flower, soft lemony/sandlewood smoke once cured, and strait road kill skunk smell from the jar.

 

[MynameStitch]

Uber how far a long into flowering is your plants 5 weeks into flowering or 28 days flowering?

10k, I seen that thread; I remember someone telling me about that thread before; seen that growing style very common, Funny thing is how does know it does not hurt his yield or not? Does not say......

 

[10k]

He was at day 28 on october 30th stitch, per his first post, now tomorrow morning is four weeks and four days flowering. That means the plants are now in the middle of week 5 flowering by my math. Did they teach any math way way back when you went to school heh heh just kiddin sweetie.

Read it more closely. He's a sogger from way back and so am I. That gpw is fantastic, and yes he knows as well as most soggers that you'd end up with a damn tight packed canopy of colas with alot of popcorn buds under the canopy running conventional thinking regarding leaf tucking etc. He explained that his leaf clipping method gives him optimum light penetration down low on the plants, which gives him the dense fat cola budsickle results. Truly revolutionary method indeed.