Yellow tips / new growth light yellow

[TokeD]

Im running 3k with co2 in a peat/co-co fiber soiless medium
ph 7
Pure blend pro with liquid karma cal-mag and AN big bud
strain is suposidly lemon skunk(cali-o/skunk#1 X skunk#1)

seems the have yellow tips and the new growth is yellow
i havent ferted in a few days so im going to try that.

day temps 84-87
night temps mid to upper 60's

Any ideas?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Your PH is way too high...get it down in the 5.8-6.2 range so your micros will have a chance to get taken up by the roots.

How often are you watering/feeding and what's the EC/PPM of the nute solution and the water you're starting with?

 

[TokeD]

Feeding every 3 days. on the third watering just water.

Feeding
PBP
Liquid Karma
organic bat guano 0-4-0
and now switching to Advanced Nutriends Big Bud liquid and cutting the guano
40gal res
1200ml PBP Bloom
480ml Liquid Karma
Big bud at half strength I think it was 280ml im not sure.

Water starting PH 7.10
Runoff starts at a 6.93 then falls to about 4 after about a minute or two.
what do I need to do now?
I think the next plan of attack is to just wait till next watering and get a soil PH reading and adjust my water accordingly to balance them, what would say my reading is 4 should I make my water's ph 10.0?!?! just so I can balance it to 7?.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Feeding every 3 days. on the third watering just water.

Feeding
PBP
Liquid Karma
organic bat guano 0-4-0
and now switching to Advanced Nutriends Big Bud liquid and cutting the guano
40gal res
1200ml PBP Bloom
480ml Liquid Karma
Big bud at half strength I think it was 280ml im not sure.

Water starting PH 7.10
Runoff starts at a 6.93 then falls to about 4 after about a minute or two.
what do I need to do now?
I think the next plan of attack is to just wait till next watering and get a soil PH reading and adjust my water accordingly to balance them, what would say my reading is 4 should I make my water's ph 10.0?!?! just so I can balance it to 7?.

Are you checking the runoff after the medium is saturated or as soon as it runs out the pot? If it's after the medium is saturated, you might wanna calibrate your PH pen...it shouldn't drop like that in such a short period of time unless something is disolving in the runoff from the container it's in.

If that's all good, then you need to get some buffers in the medium to counteract the acidity of the peat as it breaks down (like dolomite lime - but I've never used it in coco mixes, so it may not be the most ideal).

You also might wanna water them more often and feed them with every watering. When coco dries out it does some funky stuff to the availability of nutes. Coco plants thrive when getting fed with every watering. IME if you're not feeding em, your flushing them with coco...

 

[Ono Nadagin]

MTF is correct your PH is to high... once you get that fixed you should be good...

take this with a grain of salt as I never mix peat with my coco, but if they were my plants this is how I would go about fixin em...

get yourself 2 gallons of plain water per plant PH'd to 5.8 then just soak the heck out of the coco/peat with the 5.8ph water.... this should flush out all of the 'hot spotted' coco where the ph has gotten to high... once this is done you can come right back and hit them with your reg full strength nutes but PH them to 5.8... you plants will love you for almost instantly

When using CoCo you cant treat it like soil gotta keep it wet ..also coco will dry out fsater than the peat wich is why I use 100%, wich can be problematic so ...you need to keep the medium moist ... you never want to let coco dry out between waterings ... as soon as a bit of coco starts drying out it will start to cause lock out of nutes for the roots that use that coco that feed off that section of medium.

So remember that soiless mediums should be fed with the ph of a hydro system(5.8 in) ... and fed often.. daily is preferable .. the constant daily feedings at 5.8 keep the medium from drying out and causing lockout as well as they keep the medium at a constant ph zone where the plants can uptake what they need.... so you should really never have a ph problem with the plant if you are feeding it daily with 5.8ph and what ever nutes you prefer.... also feed em daily until you get about 10-20% of what you feed the plant as run off through the bottom of the pot.

Also pls stop by the coco forum here at IC mag and meet the rest of us that think coco is the only way to hydro

http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577

 

[Blackvelvet]

How to test media ph using the Virginia tech pour through method...After you have watered and ferted, wait 30 minutes. Then apply distilled water till a slight runoff occurs. This should only take an ounce or two. Test this ph. Ph 7 is way too high and will "lock out" your micros like iron (Good call mtf sandman!). Ph 4 will make micros like manganese toxic. This will require topdressing the media surface with dolomite lime to raise ph and rescue the plants. Try 1 1/5-2 teaspoons per gallon of soil media. I doubt low ph is the problem but guessing by pictures is tricky.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

I know this sounds like crazy talk to most ppl, but for now dont worry about testing the run off for now... in a coco/soiless medium you should just flush em and then feed em as I suggested and they will turn right around and kiss ya for doing it.... in a soiless media if your feeding them as often as you should PH of the run off is kinda a moot point as the plant is constantly being fed at the correct ph and the medium is constantly being PH adjusted by the feedings... After noticing this I have stopped checking my run off all together as I know I can get or keep the mediums ph in the correct zone with repeated feedings at the correct ph


Also pls pls pls dont use soil admendments such as dolomite lime and epsom salts in coco... you should treat coco and soilless mixes as hydro and should try to use hydro fixes....

Also i notice you said you ise Calmag+.. are you using RO water?... if you are not you should stop using calmag as your tap should have enough of those micros in it, ppl that use RO water add it because RO water has the cal and mag removed by the filtering process

 

[Blackmelo]

Hi TokeD,
I'm not sure you understood MTF when he said your ph is too high.

A ph of 7 is literally much too high for a soilless medium. You want to be aiming for a ph of 5.5 - 6.3. So add some ph down to your reservoir...

Like MTF said again, your plant is lacking micro nutes but that is most likely due to the wrong ph...

PS: your temps are quite high during lights on. If you can lower this temperature your plant would be less stressed. A big temperature difference during lights on and lights off can cause the yellow looking crown your plant has got going on.

 

[TokeD]

Thanks for all the replies, I have a question when you say flushing them and then feeding them are you saying I should flush them and DIRECTLY after flushing, feed them?

 

[TokeD]

I will give this a try the soil i'm using has this ammended with it and was prepackaged with these ingredients inside them, i just add fertz.


100% organic soil that contains peat moss, coco fiber, perlite and pumice. It is amended with Bat Guano, Sea Bird Guano, wonder worm castings, fish bone, Oregon-ism mycorrhizae, kelp meal, green sand, soy bean meal, leonardite, K-Mag, glacial rock dust, alfalfa meal and oyster shell

 

[Ono Nadagin]

Heya TokeD

Yes I mean flush them by pouring the straight PH 5.8 water through your containers and letting it run off completely to wash out the salts and set the PH of the coco/peat soiless mix ... then you can come right behind and feed them the normal nutes you feed that strain for that particular stage of growth PH'd to 5.8 water untill about 10-20% of the water you put in drains out the bottom(it should drain pretty quickl, if it doesnt give the bags a few more drain holes)

If you have it the mix at anywhere near 50/50 peat/coco you should have no worries of over watering as coco is damn near impossible to over water a coco soiless mix as coco holds tons of air as well as water(not that is impossible to over fert... just hard to over water)

Who makes your mix it sounds like Botanicares Readygrow

 

[TokeD]

No it's made by a company is oregon, called root oreganics

ono im in chat come in lets talk.

 

[Ono Nadagin]

I will a bit later TokeD I have to get out and get some stuff done... Ill be back around the comp in an hour or two....

I just checked out that link... I really dont see why they call that mix their 'soil' mix other than the admendments are generally considered soil admendments.... I stand behind what I said tho as coco has to be treated a certain way... and it isnt the same way as a soil grow

 

[Blackvelvet]

Your overfeeding

Your overfeeding

Root damage will show up as iron deficiency/yellow tops. This could be caused by excess salts/too much ferts.

Numbers are in parts per million; 1 teaspoon = 5ml ; ml per gallon (3.8L) of water

3 things you should be aiming for.

>at least 30 ppm phosphorus

>a ratio of potassium to calcium to magnesium of 4:2:1; if you got 100 potassium then you would want about 50 calcium and 25 magnesium; if your using dolomite lime you would not need so much cal mag in your water

>100 ppm nitrogen (low dose) to keep the leaves from falling off in flower


I was not sure which pbp bloom formula you are using with the cal mag plus...the hydro formula or soil formula?

Here is the answers...

11.36 ml per gallon pbp bloom hydro + 3.86 ml cal mag plus
n 100
p 27
k 131
ca 65
mg 29

or...

16.67 ml per gallon pbp bloom for soil + 5.8 ml cal mag plus
n 100
p 82
k 193
ca 97
mg 43

You can see with both examples we got 100 ppm n, at least around 30 p, and our k ca mg ratio of 4:2:1 is used.

If your using pbp for soil, you should not need additional phosphorus by using big bud or whatever.The hydro version could use a small amount of addtional p.

If your soil mix contains dolomite lime or in your case k-mag and oystershells to provide cal mag, cal mag plus may not be needed. These amendments to the soil mix will run out eventually and the cal mag plus would then be needed. You have to make a guess as to your cal mag levels.

Its a horticuluturalists dream to have dolomite lime in your water already coming from a towns supply. This is not the case however. Calcitic lime is used providing only calcium to prevent pipe rusting. I would say rarely is there enough calcium to provide all the plants needs without adding anything. Like I mentioned before, there will be little or no magnesium. Best thing in the future is to test the water and find the levels of elements in it so you can reduce or not add something like cal mag when its not needed. If you lack such a test, I suggest adding the cal mag.

Your soil mix contains alot of nutrients to begin with. Reminds me of something like fox farm ocean forest soil. You may not need to add ferts in the water for maybe 3 weeks after repotting. Then...begin regular feeding in the water.

Final comments:

Adjust the fert water ph after mixing to about 6.

When watering, 20% of what you apply should pour out the bottom drain holes.

CLF=constant liquid feed...feed with everywatering


Here is some references for the ferts used courtesy of Shroomdr:

Pure Blend Pro Bloom Hydro
2.5-2-5
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 70
P 24
K 116
Mg 14
Ca 28
Fe 0

Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil
1.5-4-5
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 42
P 49
K 116
Mg 14
Ca 28

Botanicare Cal Mag Plus
2-0-0
1.0208 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 54
P 0
K 0
Mg 32
Ca 86
Fe 2.7

This has been an icmag stoner production.

 

[TokeD]

thanks for all your helpful information, I just finsihed flushing my plants using plain tap adjusted to 5.8ph. Im about to go eat some food and come back and feed them using PBP Soil bloom at 10ml/gal with Liquid Karma and no additional phosphorus additives and no cal-mag ill post in 24 hours and give an update with pics.

Blackvelvet, how are you getting PPM readings for each individiual micro nutrient eg. N-P-K cal and mag?

 

[Ono Nadagin]

Heya TokeD he is just going by the package label.. 5mil per gallon = x amount of X x and X per gallon is usually on thelabels or websites or the website that regulates ferts.... based upon the NPK and micro nute ratios of the fert in question

Let us know how how it goes tey should show signs of improvement fairly quick...

good deal on leaving the Calmag out since you are using tapwater... I hardly everused the stuff till I switched to using RO water where it is a must

 

[Blackvelvet]

Blackvelvet, how are you getting PPM readings for each individiual micro nutrient eg. N-P-K cal and mag?

Oh you want to know behind the scenes at blackvelvets lab.

I posted the numbers shroomdr got for 10 ml per gallon of the nutrients your using. Its based on net weight of the bottle. Ec meter ppms and individual ppms of the elements like npk are totally different. You can use this calculator to figure ppms of the elements. http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm Its at the bottom of the page. If you dont know net weight of the bottle, leave the default settings of 1 and 1. Enter nitrogen only 1 time if you dont know the type and only have the total amount. Either urea, nitrate, or ammonia but only enter it once. The answer will be the same. Enter the % of the elements like 3% phosphorus. Enter ml per gallon your using. Press calculate. I used a cheap calculator and based my answer on a ratio off shroomdr's numbers.

You should be using 16.67ml pbp soil bloom and 5.8 ml cal mag plus per gallon of water to get 100 ppm nitrogen and also maintain the 4:2:1 k ca mg ratio I mentioned before. No extra p. Adjust fert water ph after mixing to about 6 for best results.

 

[Blackvelvet]

The target levels cannabis guru mel franc suggests is 100-100-200-60 npk mg. This is what the lucas formula everyone is using is based on. Compare to what we got:
16.67 ml per gallon pbp bloom for soil + 5.8 ml cal mag plus
n 100
p 82
k 193
ca 97
mg 43

Pretty close.

 

[TokeD]

Thanks for all the usefull information, its almost been 24 hours, I'll have some updated pics in about 45 minutes.

 

[Blackvelvet]

1200 ml pbp bloom in 40 gallons = 30 ml per gallon. This would give you 148 ppm phosphorus. This is extreme. Then you added more p. It will build up in media and not leach easily. I think you may be seeing iron deficiency caused by excess p.