Would these benifit from defoliation?

[GeraldsFinest]

Hi guys,

I have a 10x10 tent split up into 4 5x5 areas. Each 5x5 area has its own trellis net that was put in about 5 days ago. Ive been reading all the threads I can on defoliation and sounds like opinions vary quite a bit on the subject. This is my first indoor grow and I'm doing all I can to increase canopy coverage. Im a few days maybe a week from sending them into flower. Should I leave them alone till after the first two weeks of flower then defoliate some? the foliage underneath the net was quite heavy and everyday I do some pruning. Am I going about this right?

Thanks

 

[RB56]

I've only done about 10 SCROG runs, so no expert, but the SCROG itself gets you most of the way there in compensating for the cursed inverse square law. In my grows, the lower leaves that aren't getting enough light drop off. I just collect them. Plants defoliate themselves, in their own way, in their own time.

 

[RB56]

Should have also mentioned that I use 2-3 screens for most grows. I favor tall plants with lots of stretch so continue to train the plants through stretch. Part of that is trimming junk below the bottom screen. You want to end up with no leaves below the bottom of bottom screen.



It's above the bottom screen that the self trimming occurs.

 

[Ace Rothstein]

Yes after 2-3 weeks of flower, when stretch is almost done clean up the undergrowth. It's not of use only to produce fluff.

 

[Ace Rothstein]

Probably need to raise the height of the netting after stretch. Good start...

 

[zeke99]

Yes after 2-3 weeks of flower, when stretch is almost done clean up the undergrowth. It's not of use only to produce fluff.

This makes a huge difference in ANY grow.

SCROG or otherwise horizontal garden = prune the undergrowth, and you'll reduce or eliminate larf

Vertical = prune the "back" and you'll reduce or eliminate larf

 

[popta]

This makes a huge difference in ANY grow.

SCROG or otherwise horizontal garden = prune the undergrowth, and you'll reduce or eliminate larf

Vertical = prune the "back" and you'll reduce or eliminate larf

This is totally strain dependent.

Some strains make rock hard, frosty buds all the way down to the dirt, no matter how tall they are or how shady it is down there. (more common in kush family strains) Removing the lowers on a plant that grows this way this is just throwing away yield potential.

Some strains don't do this, and you really do want to remove all the branches that are too low to produce quality bud.

But how do you know which ones that will be? Nobody can tell you. It depends on the combination of your strain and room. You have to run it once all natural and see how far down this particular combo makes good shit. Next time you'll know where/if to clean.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

This is totally strain dependent.

popta is right, some plants do make rock hard buds down in the dark, others don't. With those plants, you might get reduced yield by 'lollypoping' (trimming lower growth). With other genetics, it will increase the quality and size of top colas and probably not reduce over all yield. One thing it absolutely does is make trimming easier!

 

[zeke99]

So it seems the only way to find out is to grow out the plants first and see if they produce rock hard all the way down (or back if vert) and then plan accordingly with your follow-up clone-based grows!

 

[GeraldsFinest]

Ok, Yeah I'm going to need a second trellis for sure. I put the first layer on to train everything evenly for about a week, and then I flipped the lights yesterday. As they stretch can I tuck the taller colas through the next layer of trellis? or do I not want to make them work hard while in flower? Im just kind of worried I waited a little too long to flip, but I wanted all the squares to have a bud site in it. My tent is standard hight and I'm working with 1000w de lamps. However they're at 50 percent right now but even at that I'm worried. these lights a crazy intense.

 

[GeraldsFinest]

The strains I have in there now are Stardawg Corey cut, GMO, Guava something, and Papaya.
They were all clones I got from a grower in Maine. Not really sure what to expect. I've researched the strains and think I might just stick with all stardawg next run to keep it simple. I've read GMO stretches like a son of a gun

 

[popta]

yeah you can continue training them in flower. It'z kind of crazy the things plants will roll with, they're tough.

Turn the lights up if you have the cooling to handle the extra heat. Your growth and yield are directly tied to that knob. It's not far off to say you'll only get half of what you should if you run at 50% instead of 100. You can work it up in steps if your ballast allows that and watch the temps for a day or two each time, but yeah your goal is to run it at 100% if you can.

If you can't get there I'd run a curtain down the middle and flip flop the two sides so you only have to cool two lights at a time.

 

[infrasound70]

popta is right, some plants do make rock hard buds down in the dark, others don't. With those plants, you might get reduced yield by 'lollypoping' (trimming lower growth). With other genetics, it will increase the quality and size of top colas and probably not reduce over all yield. One thing it absolutely does is make trimming easier!

What is the best way to approach defoliation if it depends on the strain? Do I need to do it by careful steps? I am a new grower growing in coco here in the Philippines and my concern is high humidity. My setup is in 2 air cycles/minute and defoliation will help a bit. Thanks.

 

[PurplePotion]

Start by taking the big fan leaves coming from the inside of the plant, I’ll usually leave some that are on the outside of the plant and aren’t shading any other parts. Eventually, you’ll be able to see more of the inner structure of the plant. I keep taking fans until everything I want to flower is getting light. Then go through and clean up the small straggler nodes. I typically work my way bottom to top when doing this as it gives you a good sense of which branches are worthy and not.

Usually the plant will respond better if you do it gradually over a couple days, but I’ve seen them completely stripped in one sitting (no leaf with a stem at all.. just growth tips) and bounce back better than before within a few days. Strains respond differently, so you gotta take your time and pay attention to how each one reacts. Do it a few days before flower and through the first 2 weeks. After 2wks of flower you should have anything that would turn into popcorn/larf discarded and your plant should be completely naked 1/3-1/2 way down. This ensures good air flow (very important for avoiding micro climates, pm, mold, etc) and allows its energy to be used at the sites that have been left at the top of the canopy.

 

[f-e]

Plants are mostly air and light, with maybe 10% of the finished product coming from the feed. Pruning to increase airflow is a thing. I wouldn't let anything grow wild, just to see what it does. I decide what it does, and if there is a disagreement, we can address that later. Letting them produce lots of bottoms, chokes airflow, and what does grow down there, does so using energy the tops could of had. Keeping all the greenery down there alive, is just a parasitic loss.

I have had plants popping out nice nugs at lower nodes, but find getting some air through them to be a great gain. Nobody wants to see bud rot from elevated humidity, or to trim scrappy bits. Or find at weigh in, that slack training dropped the yield 20%

At least half the bottoms have to go. Because it's a game of odd's. I'm yet to see the plant that didn't want at least that in a walled in scrog. There is just no light down there. Anything doing well, is a parasite.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

What is the best way to approach defoliation if it depends on the strain? Do I need to do it by careful steps? I am a new grower growing in coco here in the Philippines and my concern is high humidity. My setup is in 2 air cycles/minute and defoliation will help a bit. Thanks.

I only prune lower branches, sometimes called 'lolly pop' pruning. Personally, I never remove single fan leaves unless they're already completely yellow and ready to drop off on their own. Plenty of other people, including my own daughter do, so i'm not going to argue the point here. Just want to point out that you can grow like me and never remove a single fan leaf and still get great results.

That said, I'm very much into PJJ or Plant Jiu Jitsu. I started calling it PJJ in the years before such terms as supercropping existed, so I still use it. My technique is like human Jiu Jitsu, the idea is to bend but not to break. Bending a plant increases yield directly by increasing the size of the 'light print' as viewed from above. Increase the ability of a plant to absorb light and the next thing it needs is more water, then more nutrients and soon you have a much bigger plant.

Good PJJ skills can lead to much bigger yields both indoors and out. Combining lolly popping with PJJ will give big yields of good size flowers with less 'larf' and much easier manicuring.

The structure of plants varies a great deal from genetics. Plants with long internodes don't need as much PJJ to bring light down to interior sections of the plant. Vigorous growing hybrids with short internodes and large leaves can be a challenge, especially if they have woody stems. So many structural traits vary by genetics it's hard to keep a discussion short. Some stems bend easy, but spring back. Others stay bent. Some are willowy and have a hard time supporting huge buds, others are thick like sequoias. You just have to observe your plants.

Overall, I'd say the strategy is to PJJ first and lolly pop second. By bending, you'll see what lower parts will be able to get light and remove parts that won't. Hope I said something useful

 

[infrasound70]

Start by taking the big fan leaves coming from the inside of the plant, I’ll usually leave some that are on the outside of the plant and aren’t shading any other parts. Eventually, you’ll be able to see more of the inner structure of the plant. I keep taking fans until everything I want to flower is getting light. Then go through and clean up the small straggler nodes. I typically work my way bottom to top when doing this as it gives you a good sense of which branches are worthy and not.

Usually the plant will respond better if you do it gradually over a couple days, but I’ve seen them completely stripped in one sitting (no leaf with a stem at all.. just growth tips) and bounce back better than before within a few days. Strains respond differently, so you gotta take your time and pay attention to how each one reacts. Do it a few days before flower and through the first 2 weeks. After 2wks of flower you should have anything that would turn into popcorn/larf discarded and your plant should be completely naked 1/3-1/2 way down. This ensures good air flow (very important for avoiding micro climates, pm, mold, etc) and allows its energy to be used at the sites that have been left at the top of the canopy.

Thanks for you valuable input. What should I look for to avoid popcorn buds? I am completely new at this game but so thankful to people who have solid experience. Thanks.

 

[infrasound70]

I only prune lower branches, sometimes called 'lolly pop' pruning. Personally, I never remove single fan leaves unless they're already completely yellow and ready to drop off on their own. Plenty of other people, including my own daughter do, so i'm not going to argue the point here. Just want to point out that you can grow like me and never remove a single fan leaf and still get great results.

That said, I'm very much into PJJ or Plant Jiu Jitsu. I started calling it PJJ in the years before such terms as supercropping existed, so I still use it. My technique is like human Jiu Jitsu, the idea is to bend but not to break. Bending a plant increases yield directly by increasing the size of the 'light print' as viewed from above. Increase the ability of a plant to absorb light and the next thing it needs is more water, then more nutrients and soon you have a much bigger plant.

Good PJJ skills can lead to much bigger yields both indoors and out. Combining lolly popping with PJJ will give big yields of good size flowers with less 'larf' and much easier manicuring.

The structure of plants varies a great deal from genetics. Plants with long internodes don't need as much PJJ to bring light down to interior sections of the plant. Vigorous growing hybrids with short internodes and large leaves can be a challenge, especially if they have woody stems. So many structural traits vary by genetics it's hard to keep a discussion short. Some stems bend easy, but spring back. Others stay bent. Some are willowy and have a hard time supporting huge buds, others are thick like sequoias. You just have to observe your plants.

Overall, I'd say the strategy is to PJJ first and lolly pop second. By bending, you'll see what lower parts will be able to get light and remove parts that won't. Hope I said something useful

I already did some supercropping and lollipopping primarily to increase airflow inside the tent. I am planning to incorporate PJJ and lollipopping in my next grow with mainlining to have a better structure overall. Thanks.

 

[madalasatori]

My gelato grows perfect hard buds all the way down to the base. It’s a dream to trim as well so I don’t prune her too much, just remove larger fans throughout flower.

Some strains after stretch has stopped I will strip out most of the growth and just leave 8” at the top. This is a absolute bitch of a job but I do it because it makes trimming so much easier. Each plant gives me 8-10 big hard buds.

Strain depended but most plants I’ve grown it’s preferable to vigourously prune the bottom 2/3