Growdo Baggins
Active member
They're all drying up at different rates so it's only the middle plant that's getting watered tonight. I've never really seen the leaves shrivel up and curl like this though.
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Would being thirsty cause the leaves to curl up like this?
- Thread starter Growdo Baggins
- Start date
May be a little overwatered but your plants still look good. It's hard to tell if your plants need water without being there. It looks like you would benefit from up-potting into larger containers. If water management becomes too frequent you and extend the watering time by increasing the container size. A larger container will always grow larger roots and larger roots will always produce more weed. Some people hurt their yield by growing in little containers without ever trying larger pots. . Keep us posted friend.
The main problem with small container growing is in the end the "stem weight" outweighs the bud weight. There was a guy on another forum growing a tent with 210 dixie cups into flowering. The plants were tall and ended up with 100 and something females. At the end he got mostly stems for all his work. Who wants a lot of stem.
as they do in the greenhouses. Start with plug or dixies then 1 gallon until the plant shows sex then put them in flowering containers to finish in. Large pots will give larger yields. .
as they do in the greenhouses. Start with plug or dixies then 1 gallon until the plant shows sex then put them in flowering containers to finish in. Large pots will give larger yields. .
Ca++
Well-known member
I have not got to the bottom of this one, though I see it quite often. People don't seem to see it. Early signs are the tops getting pinched, and not opening. New leafs remaining vertical and shoe horn shaped. Thin and whispy when they do open, and twisting all over the shop. The light coloured tops come after the initial pinching. These lighter tops tell us it's an immobile element, but frankly, I have exhausted them.
Others have said that nearly every leaf deformity seems to lead them to calcium. I do see some lower leaves on this worse plant, that have lighter margins. A bit like Mg or K could do. While the tops might be showing some Zn signs. A combination that might suggest the Ca is actually too high. As I say, I have not put my finger on it. However, I have been running more trace stuff of late, and have not seen it during this time.
Pinching alone, can be small and dry pots. In that case, foliage is usually scarce, and the plant tries to flower.
Sorry I can't be of more use. This issue was why I came to pot forums decades ago, and it just lingers on, without any real answers.
Others have said that nearly every leaf deformity seems to lead them to calcium. I do see some lower leaves on this worse plant, that have lighter margins. A bit like Mg or K could do. While the tops might be showing some Zn signs. A combination that might suggest the Ca is actually too high. As I say, I have not put my finger on it. However, I have been running more trace stuff of late, and have not seen it during this time.
Pinching alone, can be small and dry pots. In that case, foliage is usually scarce, and the plant tries to flower.
Sorry I can't be of more use. This issue was why I came to pot forums decades ago, and it just lingers on, without any real answers.
Hash Artist
Active member
What is the current container size I’m curious? I was thinking the light may be too close for the center plant if it’s different genetics then the other two. I’ve been experimenting with distance on hlg 320xl rspec so this has me interested.
over-watered and under-watered can look very similar so you gotsta stick your finger in the medium and figure out which is which.
my guess: those middle plants look smaller. which usually means a less developed root system compared to the ones to the left or right...
so maybe water those in the middle a hair less than the others?
my guess: those middle plants look smaller. which usually means a less developed root system compared to the ones to the left or right...
so maybe water those in the middle a hair less than the others?
Growdo Baggins
Active member
5 gallon. I was starting to think might intensity. I had just infrared from 50-75% the day before. Someone mentioned it and I never even considered that. But it makes sense.
Growdo Baggins
Active member
They're all on different watering schedules now. They're all drinking at different rates. The one on the far left is fastest then middle then right side is drinking pretty slow. I'm having to water at least one almost everyday at this point.
Growdo Baggins
Active member
The temps in the tent stay in the upper 70's pretty steadily. They have had a couple cold mornings though.
Growdo Baggins
Active member
Thank you for that information, I always appreciate your knowledge bro. You've been a great help to me and a lot of other I'm sure. This is my last grow in pots. I got a 2x4 grassroots fabric bed. KiS organics has this white paper on their site about beds vs container growing and beds def seem like the way to go. I made a "living soil" and am going to start that next run. I've been reading a lot and have gotten a ton of help from KiS. I got a soil test and amended based on that. With their guidance.
The plants seem to be better today. But the plant on the left is wilting and the right def has something going on, I'm going to go figure out. She's due for a flush. The other 2 got theirs.
Left plant
Right plant
Ca++
Well-known member
Oh.. there might be a story emerging. That last pic shows what's likely burning. This could give unusual lockout issue. The pic before could be showing you they don't want to drink. Or perhaps the salt in the pot is not letting the water go. Most likely though, the roots are getting burnt.
Growdo Baggins
Active member
I never thought burning. I kinda assumed it was lockout on the last pick bc she needs a flush. The plant in the far left got flushed 3 days ago. Now she's wilting all up. How do you mean the roots are getting burnt? From the overall heat in the tent?
Ca++
Well-known member
Burnt roots from high salt buildup.
The leaves in the last pic have no real symmetry to the damage. Making deficiency unlikely, though not impossible. It's quite textbook nute burn though.
Other root tip damage can be dryout associated. Sometimes a good wash through can wash away poor tips, and leave a very wet pot, the plant can't drink up. A stall follows.
I have seen droop after a flush because salt levels changed so drastically. I think the idea of osmosis, is that salt attracts moisture. A reduction in substrate salt, will make it less able to hold water, while a plant full of salts can suddenly access more. Quite uncontrollably.
Plants can actually take on quite a lot of salt, if the balance of salt in the substrate is alright. Increasing both is an aim for a good crop. You want a plant full of food as it enters bloom, and so the substrate needs to hold quite a lot to stop the osmosis problem. How heavily you flushed might be key to over watering like symptoms.
The leaves in the last pic have no real symmetry to the damage. Making deficiency unlikely, though not impossible. It's quite textbook nute burn though.
Other root tip damage can be dryout associated. Sometimes a good wash through can wash away poor tips, and leave a very wet pot, the plant can't drink up. A stall follows.
I have seen droop after a flush because salt levels changed so drastically. I think the idea of osmosis, is that salt attracts moisture. A reduction in substrate salt, will make it less able to hold water, while a plant full of salts can suddenly access more. Quite uncontrollably.
Plants can actually take on quite a lot of salt, if the balance of salt in the substrate is alright. Increasing both is an aim for a good crop. You want a plant full of food as it enters bloom, and so the substrate needs to hold quite a lot to stop the osmosis problem. How heavily you flushed might be key to over watering like symptoms.
Growdo, you have the same problem every "forum informed" grower seems to have. There's this notion, that originated from grow forums, that Cannabis wants large amounts of Calcium. This idea comes from the fact that traditional crops struggle to uptake Calcium (while soaking up K like a sponge). Cannabis differs from other crops in that regard, its complete opposite.
Almost every time someone claims Calcium deficiency, its actually a Boron deficiency caused by excess calcium. Cannabis is a mutt plant; 30 seeds will show 30 different symptoms of the same exact problem. Ive taken the time to document them all. Most Boron deficiency symptoms look very similar to Calcium deficiency symptoms. When you also see signs of P deficit, (B supporting P uptake and Ca inhibiting P uptake), you have all the clues you need. Overly dark leaves/purple petioles: P deficiency , possibly through restricted Mg. Downward curl/hooked tips/interveinal necrosis: Boron deficiency. Usually you see tacoed or burnt margin with burnt tips, potassium deficiency, accompanying Calcium toxicity. That's not apparent in your grow. Diagnosis: Bor-pot + likely mag deficiency, as a result of excess Calcium. The lack of boron, magnesium and potassium will induce light/heat sensitivity. With that said, almost every case in the Cannabis infirmary is a case of Calcium toxicity.
I decided to find the bottom end of Calcium in Cannabis. About 2/3 a cup per cubic foot in a medium light base mix soil. This would eventually induce Calcium deficiency with distilled water irrigation. If you have any more calcium than that, say a cup per cubic ft of medium, you likely have enough. Too much and you'll end up with crusty leaves and subpar bud. Especially if your calcium source is calcium carbonate, as this allows trichomes to utilize carbonate for trichome wall structure instead of silica. This carbonate becomes active as trichomes swell, and has a neutralizing effect on cannabinoid/terpenoid acids.
When I began discussing this years ago, people laughed. Until one of the court jesters bought up all the Calcium silicate, and started a silica based product line which showed observable improvement in terpenoid content, as silica easily out competes carbonate when foliar applied. Then, they realized the Calcium was too much for Cannabis, as I had proclaimed from my podium of solitude. Good luck finding a fair price on potassium silicate since then. Most if not all of my post were removed by forum sponsors. This was considered the golden era of Cannabis forums, ha.
Soil carbonate will also tie up large portions of mineral nutrition, which is why hard water fertilizer lines contain a much higher NPK value than their soft water variant. Calcium carbonate has no place in Cannabis production. Neither does calcium nitrate but thats another story. Calcium in general, is almost always over applied in Cannabis. Good luck finding a fair price on silicate products of any type, as a hoarder level of greed and selfishness has taken over the cannabis supply line.
www.maximumyield.com
I'm glad one of my fellow ladies is finally going public with this info. There are people charging hundreds of dollars to tell you what I just revealed. People are probably laughing at Jennifer, but how can you argue with a Cannabis Cup winner who never worked for HighTimes? The jesters should smoke someone else's weed every once in a while, and stop being "self sufficient" aka ego preservationists. The era of mids is coming to an end. The hate for commercial Cannabis is slowly turning into pure jealousy. The only thing left for commercial operators to figure out at this point is the breeding. The reason commercial tomatoes taste bad is only partially due to poor fertilizer practice. The "breeding for looks" bug bit hard in Cannabis just as it did with tomato. Eventually people are going to want tomatoes that taste like tomatoes, and Cannabis that tastes better than anyone knew Cannabis could taste. The era is misinfo in Cannabis will be forced to a halt once some of the egos realize the missing quality of the past is not missing, its being actively R&D'ed in high end facilities that don't even sell or distribute Cannabis.
Almost every time someone claims Calcium deficiency, its actually a Boron deficiency caused by excess calcium. Cannabis is a mutt plant; 30 seeds will show 30 different symptoms of the same exact problem. Ive taken the time to document them all. Most Boron deficiency symptoms look very similar to Calcium deficiency symptoms. When you also see signs of P deficit, (B supporting P uptake and Ca inhibiting P uptake), you have all the clues you need. Overly dark leaves/purple petioles: P deficiency , possibly through restricted Mg. Downward curl/hooked tips/interveinal necrosis: Boron deficiency. Usually you see tacoed or burnt margin with burnt tips, potassium deficiency, accompanying Calcium toxicity. That's not apparent in your grow. Diagnosis: Bor-pot + likely mag deficiency, as a result of excess Calcium. The lack of boron, magnesium and potassium will induce light/heat sensitivity. With that said, almost every case in the Cannabis infirmary is a case of Calcium toxicity.
I decided to find the bottom end of Calcium in Cannabis. About 2/3 a cup per cubic foot in a medium light base mix soil. This would eventually induce Calcium deficiency with distilled water irrigation. If you have any more calcium than that, say a cup per cubic ft of medium, you likely have enough. Too much and you'll end up with crusty leaves and subpar bud. Especially if your calcium source is calcium carbonate, as this allows trichomes to utilize carbonate for trichome wall structure instead of silica. This carbonate becomes active as trichomes swell, and has a neutralizing effect on cannabinoid/terpenoid acids.
When I began discussing this years ago, people laughed. Until one of the court jesters bought up all the Calcium silicate, and started a silica based product line which showed observable improvement in terpenoid content, as silica easily out competes carbonate when foliar applied. Then, they realized the Calcium was too much for Cannabis, as I had proclaimed from my podium of solitude. Good luck finding a fair price on potassium silicate since then. Most if not all of my post were removed by forum sponsors. This was considered the golden era of Cannabis forums, ha.
Soil carbonate will also tie up large portions of mineral nutrition, which is why hard water fertilizer lines contain a much higher NPK value than their soft water variant. Calcium carbonate has no place in Cannabis production. Neither does calcium nitrate but thats another story. Calcium in general, is almost always over applied in Cannabis. Good luck finding a fair price on silicate products of any type, as a hoarder level of greed and selfishness has taken over the cannabis supply line.
Goodbye from Maximum Yield
In print and online, Maximum Yield is your source for cannabis and cultivation knowledge, with informative grow articles and tips to enhance your life with mmj.
www.maximumyield.com
I'm glad one of my fellow ladies is finally going public with this info. There are people charging hundreds of dollars to tell you what I just revealed. People are probably laughing at Jennifer, but how can you argue with a Cannabis Cup winner who never worked for HighTimes? The jesters should smoke someone else's weed every once in a while, and stop being "self sufficient" aka ego preservationists. The era of mids is coming to an end. The hate for commercial Cannabis is slowly turning into pure jealousy. The only thing left for commercial operators to figure out at this point is the breeding. The reason commercial tomatoes taste bad is only partially due to poor fertilizer practice. The "breeding for looks" bug bit hard in Cannabis just as it did with tomato. Eventually people are going to want tomatoes that taste like tomatoes, and Cannabis that tastes better than anyone knew Cannabis could taste. The era is misinfo in Cannabis will be forced to a halt once some of the egos realize the missing quality of the past is not missing, its being actively R&D'ed in high end facilities that don't even sell or distribute Cannabis.
What time of day did you take the pics, how far into the light cycle?
