Would a pH of 6.4 Cause My Seedlings To Look This Funky? Or Something Else Going On?

[newguy41410]

I Popped 8 seeds 2 weeks ago. Seeds are "Soul Mate" by Bodhi.

I noticed 5 of the 8 seedlings had seemed either stunted or looked really droopy/funky-looking. Thought it might be low humidity so I put a dome on for a couple days and that didn't help so I checked pH yesterday and pH read 7.5 so I calibrated my pH pen and realized pH was really at 6.4... so I ph'd it down to 5.8.

I'm still not sure if pH of 6.4 would do this to seedlings though as I have three other seedlings that seem to be fine (seen in the last photo).

This is the second pack of Soul Mate I've popped, and I've popped several other seed packs by Bodhi in the past several years, using the same method.. but this is the first time I've had problems with seedlings at this early of a stage. I also don't remember ever starting out with high pH though. Any idea if it's most certainly the pH being too high or is it definitely something else like russet mites?

(I had russet mites about 6 months ago and threw all plants away and took a break from growing since. Now I'm worried I may still have russet mites even though I don't see anything under the microscope on these seedlings)

Medium is all perlite with a fabric wick inside the perlite cup that goes down into a nutrient reservoir below to wick up 200ppm nutrient water as the perlite dries. The perlite is definitely not too wet. It is NOT overwatering I am experiencing.. I took one of the cups out of the reservoir so the perlite could dry out and the seedling did not respond.. so I know its not a case of overwatering. Please help!

And here's a photo of 3 normal-looking seedlings and 2 severely-stunted seedlings. All 8 seedlings are same age:

 

[OG_NoMan]

In my experience some seeds start life a little funky. I had some just recently do almost exactly what you are seeing. Now at 3 weeks out they have normalized growth and look fairly normal. Give them a a minute and see if they come out of their funk. Good luck.

 

[newguy41410]

In my experience some seeds start life a little funky. I had some just recently do almost exactly what you are seeing. Now at 3 weeks out they have normalized growth and look fairly normal. Give them a a minute and see if they come out of their funk. Good luck.

have you ever seen seedlings as small as the one in the first photo severely drooping that much? That alone looks very alarming to me. Like a cry for help
I have had seedlings with funky leaf growth but never drooping severely like in the first photo

 

[OG_NoMan]

have you ever seen seedlings as small as the one in the first photo severely drooping that much? That alone looks very alarming to me. Like a cry for help
I have had seedlings with funky leaf growth but never drooping severely like in the first photo

Maybe not as bad as your first photo but definitely like your second and third photo. What is the green stuff in the second and third photo? That can't be algae is it? Anyway, another possibility for the first pic is that it's very sensitive to low humidity.

You can see that the first true leave is very messed up and the next 3 finger leave is only messed up near the tip but now the next 5 finger leaf is coming in perfect. This happened to all 4 of my MLI seeds these are 2 of them.

 

[St. Phatty]

The Perlite is an artificial environment.

There is something they don't like.

I suggest those expanding Peat Cubes for trouble free seed starting. Also artificial, but I have seen them help a lot of growers.

Then when it's got a few nodes you move it the Perlite or whatever medium.

 

[newguy41410]

Maybe not as bad as your first photo but definitely like your second and third photo. What is the green stuff in the second and third photo? That can't be algae is it? Anyway, another possibility for the first pic is that it's very sensitive to low humidity.

You can see that the first true leave is very messed up and the next 3 finger leave is only messed up near the tip but now the next 5 finger leaf is coming in perfect. This happened to all 4 of my MLI seeds these are 2 of them. filedata/fetch?id=18026870&d=1640825164

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oh okay yeah ive definitely had many plants with funky growth like in your photos but around the age of your plants, I've definitely never experienced what I'm experiencing now with such tiny seedlings, im worried I may be under attack by russets again

 

[newguy41410]

The Perlite is an artificial environment.

There is something they don't like.

I suggest those expanding Peat Cubes for trouble free seed starting. Also artificial, but I have seen them help a lot of growers.

Then when it's got a few nodes you move it the Perlite or whatever medium.

I've popped dozens of seeds and propogated dozens of clones in all perlite using the same cloner and parameters over and over and have never encountered anything like this though. I'm sure it's simply not the perlite medium itself. I'm starting to worry I may be under attack from russet mites again if these plants don't look alive soon

 

[44:86N]

I'm starting to worry I may be under attack from russet mites again if these plants don't look alive soon

Yeah, they look besieged. That severe cupping/folding of the leaf for sure. Some others look like they have some damage, too.

But, you may have multiple things going on -- that algae is bad news, too. If there is algae, there are water molds as well, and that could be the problem with the extra stunted plants. 15ml to 30ml hydrogen peroxide per gallon H2O will really help with that.

 

[St. Phatty]

I've popped dozens of seeds and propogated dozens of clones in all perlite using the same cloner and parameters over and over and have never encountered anything like this though. I'm sure it's simply not the perlite medium itself. I'm starting to worry I may be under attack from russet mites again if these plants don't look alive soon

I would start 1/2 the seedlings in a different room.

Maybe it's something you can't see, like magnetic field.

A big gob of steel in the foundation or frame, under the grow room ... who knows.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Medium is all perlite with a fabric wick inside the perlite cup that goes down into a nutrient reservoir below to wick up 200ppm nutrient water as the perlite dries.

I think the problem is that some of the cups are infected with algae.

The problem with these cups is that too much light reflects on the inside of the cups, especially in combination with perlite. You can switch out the old perlite and water the sick plants with a light H2O2 solution, however that doesn't change the basic issue. Too much light in the medium.

 

[cannacrab]

have you ever seen seedlings as small as the one in the first photo severely drooping that much? That alone looks very

Most likely the microbiology of your media. When you start seeing green on your media, your seedlings are going to struggle to establish themselves.

 

[moose eater]

ph 6.4 will not do that.
|
Perlite is not the better medium; it contains an (something like 11% to 14%) aluminum 'punch'.

I've been phasing it out, and using more volcanic pumice and increased vermiculite to add to the EC, though I use soilless mixes almost all the time.

But the cupping or 'praying' (upset and reaching for the sky) is not apt to be caused by your 6.4 ph.

Is your ph meter accurate?

Looks like one nutrient or another outa' whack, or a maybe reaction to moisture level in the medium or humidity in the grow area..

 

[moose eater]

I've popped dozens of seeds and propogated dozens of clones in all perlite using the same cloner and parameters over and over and have never encountered anything like this though. I'm sure it's simply not the perlite medium itself. I'm starting to worry I may be under attack from russet mites again if these plants don't look alive soon

Also, not all amendments or sources are equal. Are you using the same perlite you used before?

Did your stash of perlite perhaps get exposed to or contaminated by something the plants are not fond of?

 

[Mattbho]

Look over fed and overwatered . Imo not ready for a system. They need tlc . Where's the good ones ? Can't see the leaves too clear and 0 experience with russets

 

[moose eater]

I think the problem is that some of the cups are infected with algae.

The problem with these cups is that too much light reflects on the inside of the cups, especially in combination with perlite. You can switch out the old perlite and water the sick plants with a light H2O2 solution, however that doesn't change the basic issue. Too much light in the medium.

We use a mild bleach solution to scrub our pots and trays when they're used. Dip the 3-ft. bamboo stakes into the same solution, both ends, so the stakes get treated their entire 3-ft. length.

 

[Creeperpark]

You do what you do and you get what you get. If you want something different you need to change your media. Perlite is an amendment to aerate the substrate. The only good source for propagation using perlite is for cloning. Perlite is too airy and light for seed germatination. If it was the best or even good, everyone would use it, but it's not and that's why you don't see many people cracking a seed with it. .

What is perlite used for?
While it does also help retain some water, perlite is primarily used to aerate compost. Google

 

[Ca++]

tip one on its side, and try to slide out the root ball. I think you should be able to get them looking like aero-clones. Then you can put them in compost, in plant pots, and grow like a pro

 

[Creeperpark]

Newguy, I know you've been doing this a long time. However, the difference between perlite and a good-quality soil mix is the solute. A solute is water that has percolated through a solid and leached out some of the constituents. When the liquid solute soaks through If the constituents are favorable then the embryo in the seed will respond by busting the shell quickly. If the water is empty of favorable constituents it will hold back. Perlite is empty with only 2 ingredients and seed will have to struggle just to stay alive. Each seed has a DNA programmed into its genetics and when they can match constituents like their Mothers the seed will respond fast.

There is minute opening on the seed through which the water "solute" enters in the seed known as micropyle. The water then enters the seed it initiates various metabolic functions in the seed and it swells up causing the tearing of the seed coat for the plant to emerge. This process is known as germination. Google

 

[TanzanianMagic]

I Popped 8 seeds 2 weeks ago. Seeds are "Soul Mate" by Bodhi.

I noticed 5 of the 8 seedlings had seemed either stunted or looked really droopy/funky-looking. Thought it might be low humidity so I put a dome on for a couple days and that didn't help so I checked pH yesterday and pH read 7.5 so I calibrated my pH pen and realized pH was really at 6.4... so I ph'd it down to 5.8.

I'm still not sure if pH of 6.4 would do this to seedlings though as I have three other seedlings that seem to be fine (seen in the last photo).

This is the second pack of Soul Mate I've popped, and I've popped several other seed packs by Bodhi in the past several years, using the same method.. but this is the first time I've had problems with seedlings at this early of a stage. I also don't remember ever starting out with high pH though. Any idea if it's most certainly the pH being too high or is it definitely something else like russet mites?

(I had russet mites about 6 months ago and threw all plants away and took a break from growing since. Now I'm worried I may still have russet mites even though I don't see anything under the microscope on these seedlings)

Medium is all perlite with a fabric wick inside the perlite cup that goes down into a nutrient reservoir below to wick up 200ppm nutrient water as the perlite dries. The perlite is definitely not too wet. It is NOT overwatering I am experiencing.. I took one of the cups out of the reservoir so the perlite could dry out and the seedling did not respond.. so I know its not a case of overwatering. Please help!

View attachment 18026745 View attachment 18026746 View attachment 18026747

And here's a photo of 3 normal-looking seedlings and 2 severely-stunted seedlings. All 8 seedlings are same age:

View attachment 18026748

There are algae growing in the medium, and they're most likely clogging the roots.

Germinate in rockwool if you're going the synthetic route? Personally I either germinate them in coco coir, or outdoors well aged supersoil, usually in the container they're going to grow in.

If you're using perlite to germinate seeds, you should add a little H202 to the water. At least it will slow down the algae growth. And add a little oxygen.

 

[Creeperpark]

When the liquid seeps into the seed the radicle or seed tail will start feeding right away. If the diet is a complete diet, the seedling will grow fine, but if it is not, then the plant will have to wait for the right diet. Waiting the seedling will have to struggle to stay alive until it gets its nutrients. All this can be prevented if you use good complete soil to germinate your seed. Perlite and Rockwool will have to make adjustments with nutrient concentrations and can be hard on seedlings until it's dialed in. Mimic Mother Nature for best results.