Wipe out the Ruderalis?

[Superauto]

Is it possible to breed out all the Ruderalis genes but the autofloering gene(s)?

We have some good autoflower strains now, like the Northern Light Automatic, but as Royal Queen Seeds state in their ad the strain has 80% Indica and 20% Ruderalis!
Does it really take 20% of the genes to become an autoflower?

What I ask is if it's possible to cross inn new Northern lights photoperiod to the Northern Lights Automatic again and again until there is almost nothing but pure Indica photoperiod genes left, and the only Ruderalis genes left is the few needed to make the weed autoflowering

 

[burningfire]

anything is possible, they made plants that were fluorescent...



I just think the population pool needed for a project like this isn't possible in the current political/legal market.

 

[troutman]

If you don't want Ruderalis then why bother with Autos?

 

[Ganoderma]

If you don't want Ruderalis then why bother with Autos?

Ruderalis = Autos

Ruderalis is where the auto flower gene comes from. The O.P. was asking about breeding out that gene so it doesn't display that trait.



The answer (my answer) is, yes you can breed the auto trait out of the plants. When the seed companies first started crossing Ruderalis plants to other types not all of the plants grown out from the seeds would be autos. One has to select plants over several generations to get plants that pass along the auto flower genes only.

What you asked would just be the reverse of the breeding process used to make auto flowering plants.

 

[troutman]

Wouldn't it be easier to not just buy regular seeds?

 

[mr.brunch]

I think the op is asking if all ruderalis genes except for the autoflowering part can be bred out.
Probably because of the usual seed company bs about “20% this and 80% that” when they really have no fkin idea what percentage of each strain remains after combination ... only what traits they have selected for.
Really it’s just an easy way of saying they’ve bx’ed to the nl mother a couple of times.

 

[therevverend]

Genes and breeding are complicated things. Like Mr. Brunch says most of the time when a seed company or budtender says something is 10% this and 90% that they're full of shit. It's a hybrid, no one knows what percentage of what is in it. I'd usually guess 50% of one strain and 50% of another.
If they're telling the truth and it really is close to 80:20 or 4-1 that means it's (NLxRuderalis) x NL. Or {(NL x Ruderalis) x (NL x Rudralis)} X NL. Or some such mix. At this point, if they're selling a stable product where every seed finishes early and gets you high, they've already removed most of the Ruderalis.
The traits that you associate with Ruderalis, low(no) potency and small size, are a function of the early harvest as much as they are Ruderalis genes. Genes aren't one switch, early/late. They're early, small, short branched for instance. The more you try to select for one tendency the more of a chance there is for other bad tendencies to pop up.
This is the long answer, the short answer is that if someone could breed a strain that's Autoflower and doesn't show any Ruderalis traits, they would have done so already. People have been working these genetics for 40 years now.
The lack of progress tells a lot. Longer growth times seem to be locked together with potency. Maybe it takes time for the plant to develop the 'chemistry set' to create complex cannabinoids?
A hint is that the further north you go the less potent landrace strains become. While towards the equator the landrace strains become more potent. Hemp does very well in places like Canada, Scandinavia, and Russia. While potent cannabis not so much. There's always exceptions but it's a good general rule to keep in mind.

 

[Superauto]

I want auto's, I just don't want the low yield, low potency shit genes

 

[Superauto]

So what I'm asking is have they discovered how many genes that it takes to make cannabis autoflower?
I guess we are talking about a specific small number of genes, why not isolate these and get rid of the rest of the ruderalis genes?

 

[jaypopnseeds]

The autoflower trait is a single recessive gene. If you continually backcross to a non-autoflower you can reduce the amount of ruderalis in the offspring, but each time further crosses need to be performed to create plants homozygous for the autoflower gene. It’s a pain in the ass, so I doubt you’ll see anyone do more than a few backcross generations.

But really, just buy regular, non-autoflower seeds. You can grow them at 12/12 from seed and essentially get the same results. You have more control over your yield. The plants don’t tend to be as sensitive to nutrients, and if you fuck up during veg, you have time to fix it before it ruins your crop. Plus you can take clones.

 

[CaptainDankness]

I want auto's, I just don't want the low yield, low potency shit genes

You can always grow quicker non autoflowering strains 12/12 from seed and flower quicker than many autoflowering plants.

To breed just the trait of autoflowering is going to be damn near impossible, though with lots of time you could succeed. The biggest problem with Auto's is you can't really test out the males before breeding with them, they flower then die. A solid male would be great then you can cross to plenty of females and pick the best ones to collect seeds from. But people have been trying for years and here we are.

You certainly wouldn't be the first to try, people have been playing with it since at least the 80's.

 

[clearheaded]

What you are looking for is "fast versions" seems to be very popular in spain and uk seed banks. small amount of ruderalis so not true auto but shorter flowering times but may auto if rootbound etc. This is what mighty mite is(not true auto). anyway, have a look think its likely what you are after.

 

[insomniac_AU]

I can understand why wouldn't want much Ruderalis. I only ever came into contact with it once. I got a free Ruderalis seed and grew it just to see what it was. It didn't seem to have any THC at all, it went in the bin.

 

[burningfire]

There's a lot of early plants that are still photo sensitive, I always thought that the only market for the autoflowering ruderalis types was further up north where the sun doesn't really set during the summer months.



otherwise most plants that people call indicas will flower around 9 hours of darkness. the faster plants at 8... a few examples of those would be something like Early Pearl or a lebanese.. now the potency might not be earthshattering but on average it'S better than most ruderalis.