Why Sodium Thiosulfate??

[Douglas.Curtis]

We're all familiar with the feminization process which happens in the presence of Colloidal Silver (CS) and Silver Thiosulfate Solution (STS). I understand the silver being present, for the ethylene blocking, but where did the thiosulfate come in to the picture?


Does anyone know if this just happened to be a 'working' mixture someone whipped up accidentally, or is there a scientific basis why sodium thiosulfate works great with the silver nitrate in this scenario?


My first guess is the silver nitrate being toxic in straight application somehow, and the thiosulfate buffering this in some way. Nothing came up readily in searches, so I was hoping someone happened to know this bit of trivia.


Thanks!

 

[ahortator]

Could be 1-MCP a less toxic way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Methylcyclopropene

Why people now refuse to simply use males as they have been used to make seeds since the dawn of Cannabis growing, many thousands years ago?

 

[shaggyballs]

Could be 1-MCP a less toxic way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Methylcyclopropene

It is also way more expensive too.
Not real easy to get either.
Good suggestion though.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Could be 1-MCP a less toxic way?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Methylcyclopropene

Thiosulfate already has an extremely low toxicity. Plus, as Shaggy pointed out, it's ridiculously cheap and easy to work with.

Why people now refuse to simply use males as they have been used to make seeds since the dawn of Cannabis growing, many thousands years ago?

Prohibition is the main reason.



Man didn't have stupid restrictions for thousands of years, only the last 100 or so. When you're limited to very few plants, there's no real reason for males. Males take up resources and time best spent on females.


The other reason is for genotype hunting for breeding purposes. Case in point, I have a cut of Canna-Tsu which tends to hermie under prolonged low pH in the root zone. I'm currently creating feminized seeds, so I can start the slow torture of sprouting them a few at a time. When I find stellar copies of her, without the low pH hermie trait, I'll breed them back to Cannatonic and Sour Tsunami males for stabilization.

 

[ahortator]

I have been told long ago silver ion Ag+ could be linked to Parkinson and other diseases.

https://ac.els-cdn.com/S00139351140...t=1531912524_33ec60afb58eca7bb198da74f7f588a4

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935114004058

When I begin to grow the only way I knew to make seeds was using males. As my goal it is only growing pure heirloom old school sativas I think I don't need pheno hunting. Only find a good strain (which nowadays it is extremely difficult because almost all is contaminated) and do some pollen chucking with the best plants, and the highest number of them possible to avoid inbreeding depression.

It is far easier and cheaper than any other way. Also I must say I grow outdoors. I know that growing indoors it is more annoying to waste space and money keeping males.

Greetings

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I have been told long ago silver ion Ag+ could be linked to Parkinson and other diseases.

STS is way below any issues in the toxicity department. Even then, I still recommend using gloves/mask/long-sleeves. Nobody is smoking or eating the end plant, so it's perfectly safe.


Femmed seeds play a fantastic role, for those who need them.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Back on topic,

We're looking for the specific reason Sodium Thiosulfate is used, instead of mixing other chemicals with the silver nitrate.


Edit: I found this little tidbit of a phrase, but it's out of my depth for chemistry. Silver ion forms stepwise complexes with thiosulfate ions
Would someone be able to elaborate in plainer english than what I've found? lol Thanks so much!

 

[Popey]

I think that this link can help: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00389386

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Beautiful, thank you.


Faster uptake, higher concentration in flowers. Got it.

 

[brickweeder]

...Why people now refuse to simply use males as they have been used to make seeds since the dawn of Cannabis growing, many thousands years ago?

I can't speak for others, but I am reversing a China Yunnan female because the only China Yunnan seeds I could find were feminized versions. A lot of folks want to make their own seeds but many facking banks only put out fems to try to keep demand for their seeds perpetual and because they can charge a premium. My preference is to develop seeds the traditional way, but that is not always possible.

 

[brickweeder]

And I am using STS made from Sodium Thiosulfate because I wasn't getting a reversal with colloidal silver.

 

[brickweeder]

Back on topic,

We're looking for the specific reason Sodium Thiosulfate is used, Thanks so much!

Probably boils down to Sodium Thiosulfate being a very inexpensive component and very effective.