Why is Organic Cannabis better?

[zor]

just a thought here:

anyone else wonder if the differences found between organics and chems are a result of the 'speed of absorption' of the elements? In other words, with chem ferts, the elements are available immediately in a usable form to the plant roots while organics need to be broken down. Could it be that the immediate availability from chem nutes vs slowly 'streamed' availabilty of an organically amended soil, contribute to the different quality?

 

[C21H30O2]

It's not a black a white issue...

1) People growing with straight up GH 3-part are getting bland boring tasting weed. "The Recipe" is a recipe for 'mersh... flushed or not...

2) Uppity organic growers who think a skiller grower can't replicate anything they do quality-wise with good bottled nutrients and additives are also fools. Sorry, but that's laughable. Go play with some bat poop.

how do u replicate enhanced systemic immune function with bottled nutes? Which bottled nutrient do you use to help defend the phyloshpere from parasitic attack (fungus, mildew etc.)? Which bottled nutrient allows your soil to get better and more productive after each cycle? Which bottle nutrient allows the plant to determine fully the nutrients it absorbs?

 

[C21H30O2]

just a thought here:

anyone else wonder if the differences found between organics and chems are a result of the 'speed of absorption' of the elements? In other words, with chem ferts, the elements are available immediately in a usable form to the plant roots while organics need to be broken down. Could it be that the immediate availability from chem nutes vs slowly 'streamed' availabilty of an organically amended soil, contribute to the different quality?

well your not forcing nutrients down the plants throat. The organic nutrients do need to be made available to the plant but with a well made organic soil it can provide nutrients just as rapidly as a chem grow can.

 

[VerdantGreen]

just a thought here:

anyone else wonder if the differences found between organics and chems are a result of the 'speed of absorption' of the elements? In other words, with chem ferts, the elements are available immediately in a usable form to the plant roots while organics need to be broken down. Could it be that the immediate availability from chem nutes vs slowly 'streamed' availabilty of an organically amended soil, contribute to the different quality?

i agree that this must be at the heart of it, with properly amended organic soil that isnt too rich, you are putting the plant in control if it's feeding to a large extent.
i think we all agree that overfed plants, whether chem or organic, make for some awful weed - so at the other end of the scale, allowing the plant to take what it needs organically, through root interaction with microbes rather than force feed it what you think it needs, we are likely to have a plant that has grown well with no extra elements/minerals within it.

as for taste, my first observations of how organic soil (real mineral soil) makes things taste better was from tomatoes. these things are hard to quantify and prove but that doesnt mean they arent correct - take wine for an example again - there is a whole industry based on what aged fermented grape juice tastes better than another - and the region that it came from i.e. environment and soil chemistry - is thought to be one of the biggest factors.

some people have cited my yields as proof that organics can yield as well as chem, and i tend to agree that it can. imo yield is much more influenced by grow methods like canopy management - but my organic soil certainly dont hold back my yields in any way.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Ha good one! Have you *read* this thread?

lol, thats exactly what i thought about you when you posted here.

its easy to find articles that say chem growing is the global answer - because chem growing represents big business. factory farming, oil companies. do a search and you will find that there are plenty of articles to support organic as well.

and as for feeding the world. thats more about poverty. people go hungry because they have no money more than that there isnt enough food.

it's off topic, but i will supply some links in support of organic farming in general just to balance the ones already posted.

http://www.population-growth-migration.info/essays/woodwardorganic.html

http://www.pigbusiness.co.uk/pdfs/Soil-Association-Can-Organic-feed-the-World.pdf

http://www.farmersguardian.com/home...an-feed-the-world-claims-report/36461.article

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/organicagriculturefeedtheworld.php

http://www.theecologist.org/trial_i...0_reasons_why_organic_can_feed_the_world.html

VG

 

[Mountain]

i agree that this must be at the heart of it, with properly amended organic soil that isnt too rich, you are putting the plant in control if it's feeding to a large extent.
i think we all agree that overfed plants, whether chem or organic, make for some awful weed - so at the other end of the scale, allowing the plant to take what it needs organically, through root interaction with microbes rather than force feed it what you think it needs, we are likely to have a plant that has grown well with no extra elements/minerals within it.

some people have cited my yields as proof that organics can yield as well as chem, and i tend to agree that it can. imo yield is much more influenced by grow methods like canopy management - but my organic soil certainly dont hold back my yields in any way.

Ditto - just rely on the relationship/communication between the plant and soil microflora and get out of the way. Yeah I've had a decent amount of poorly grown organic weed...lol.

No reason you can't have great yields with organics.

 

[montehierba]

GAIA is the word you are looking for Mountain.
awesome treat guys.

 

[Mountain]

It's not a black a white issue...

1) People growing with straight up GH 3-part are getting bland boring tasting weed. "The Recipe" is a recipe for 'mersh... flushed or not...

2) Uppity organic growers who think a skiller grower can't replicate anything they do quality-wise with good bottled nutrients and additives are also fools. Sorry, but that's laughable. Go play with some bat poop.

GH stuff tastes like cardboard. The biggest differences with the AN based program were improvements in fragrance and flavor. No where near as complex an AN program as what some run...lol...but still a table top full of bottles. End result was lacking compared to organic.

I found bottle fed organic plants to be a slight notch below how I ended up growing. For one fungi don't like to be top fed a lot of P. Think REv told me that once you get to like 0-8-0 stuff they get pissed off. One theory I have is that ferts down fall from the sky in nature. Once again humans thinking they can do better than nature and in this case I don't think they can...at least not IME.

I have 'played with' bat poop and ended up removing it from my program and replaced it with other materials.

Another thing I love about organics is...just add water

 

[BasementBreeder]

@ zor and Verdant

I encourage you to read this thread by spurr https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190653. It shows that plants self-regulate the ions it absorbs (except Ammonicial N). I've also read of luxury consumption of potassium, but haven't seen anything that shows this to be a positive or negative.

 

[Iron_Lion]

Shit,did grandma have a ph meter for her tomatoes in 1929?

nope but I bet she might have had either dolomite or sulfer on hand to help regulate soil pH depending on the crop.

 

[guest2012y]

nope but I bet she might have had either dolomite or sulfer on hand to help regulate soil pH depending on the crop.

LOL...If she was a hip granny probably. The local organic farmers around here use powdered dolomite on their fields even though the soil is a very rich volcanic sandy loam...it comes in around the 4.0 range and needs dolomite for certain crops. After dolomite it pretty much grows some bomb veggies.

 

[GIS]

This is a great thread, with lots of great information. I am currently in the process of switching from chem based fertilizers to organics. Has anybody had good experience using pure blend pro with coco coir?

 

[compost]

One of the con's of organic growing that no one is touching is the potential to get some NASTY parasites or other infections. I have grown the whole range at some point. I have grown all chemical, all organic, and the in between's like PBP. All the organic people are citing the health issues of the chemical grower which is a legitimate point. However just like organic you open yourself up to nasty stuff if you don't do things right. Not flushing your salts out is not good for you. On the other hand some of the stuff in organic soil is also very bad for you.

I do understand that in the balance of nature most of these diseases will be dealt with. That being said even just the guano has the possibility of one nasty disease. The main point is either way if the person who is growing is irresponsible, has bad upkeep, or even just unlucky they can expose themselves to a world of hurt.

 

[Mountain]

As for parasites...which parasites are you talking about, from what sources (bat, chicken, steer, etc.) and can you post some references to people contracting these parasites by handling these materials? I'm aware of things like tapeworm (hard to get actually), roundworms, hookworms, flukes, etc. and also there's a world of microscopic parasites that would probably be more of a concern but could you be more specific?

I've never worried about anything like this.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

One of the con's of organic growing that no one is touching is the potential to get some NASTY parasites or other infections. I have grown the whole range at some point. I have grown all chemical, all organic, and the in between's like PBP. All the organic people are citing the health issues of the chemical grower which is a legitimate point. However just like organic you open yourself up to nasty stuff if you don't do things right. Not flushing your salts out is not good for you. On the other hand some of the stuff in organic soil is also very bad for you.

I do understand that in the balance of nature most of these diseases will be dealt with. That being said even just the guano has the possibility of one nasty disease. The main point is either way if the person who is growing is irresponsible, has bad upkeep, or even just unlucky they can expose themselves to a world of hurt.

I grow vegan organic. There is little chance my bottled nutes will hurt me, no poop. Seaweed, molasses, soft rock phos, vinasse, plant extracts... nothing poopy or dangerous about that. I have drank my fertigation solution many times.

 

[compost]

As for parasites...which parasites are you talking about, from what sources (bat, chicken, steer, etc.) and can you post some references to people contracting these parasites by handling these materials? I'm aware of things like tapeworm (hard to get actually), roundworms, hookworms, flukes, etc. and also there's a world of microscopic parasites that would probably be more of a concern but could you be more specific?

I've never worried about anything like this.

Here is an easy one.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/81823/the_hidden_danger_that_bats_leave_behind.html?cat=70
http://www.ehow.com/list_6827932_list-herb-diseases-affect-humans.html

Here is a good paper in going against removing beneficial organisms. The article points out the soil is more prone to diseases.

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/soilborne.html

Mainly in the manures used in organics there can be a plethora of diseases. Most of these disease are kept in check by good quality soil that helps build resistance. However you see the scares even with produce being infected with e coli and such. The point I was making is that people jump on the organics is healthier then chemical bit but there is dangers with organics also.

I am curious at what level of salt fertilizers do the beneficial soil organism start to die off?

 

[Tela]

guanos are so 90's

 

[Mountain]

Here is an easy one.

I wouldn't be concerned at all about contracting E. coli from your grow or the materials you work with. If you do more research I think you'll find that to be the case. Now if you're working with fresh manures or contaminated water that's a different story. Still you'd have to be sticking your fingers in your mouth after touching the manure or eating your dirt...yummy. Funny thing about the E. coli thing is I dealt with a contamination issue about 2 months back and had to do a bunch of research to pinpoint the problem. Growers can pretty much forget about this one.

In the 5 years I've been on canna forums I've never heard someone say they got histoplasmosis from working with guanos, never saw someone post a story second hand about this, never saw someone post a news report of a grower getting sick from guanos nor have I seen any news reports about this. Only thing I've seen is people getting histoplasmosis from cats. Yeah lots of information out there about bat guano and histoplasmosis. Granted symptoms can be pretty mild and people might think they just got the flu or something.

Mainly in the manures used in organics there can be a plethora of diseases

Yeah that's true but for the most part anything in manure is most likely a problem only if fresh and not composted and you contract these organisms by eating fresh, raw produce that's been grown in contaminated soil or contaminated meat. I would not be concerned at all.

guanos are so 90's

Yeah haven't used any guano in awhile.

 

[VerdantGreen]

i use guano, im lucky enough to have access to an eco friendly source of it and i do think it really helps make great aromatic buds - but i also swear by proper mineral soil and other amendments. guano was used by the incas ffs so saying it is so nineties is a little short sighted

@ zor and Verdant

I encourage you to read this thread by spurr https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=190653. It shows that plants self-regulate the ions it absorbs (except Ammonicial N). I've also read of luxury consumption of potassium, but haven't seen anything that shows this to be a positive or negative.

yeas ive read that thread a few times, like it says plants can regulate their uptake unless we overdo ferts - and that is much easier to do in chem than organics ime

 

[Mountain]

i use guano, im lucky enough to have access to an eco friendly source of it and i do think it really helps make great aromatic buds. guano was used by the incas ffs so saying it is so nineties is a little short sighted

yeas ive read that thread a few times, like it says plants can regulate their uptake unless we overdo ferts - and that is much easier to do in chem than organics ime

One of the reasons I stopped using bat guano was I didn't think it was good for the environment overall so I looked for alternatives. Composted chicken manure is cheaper. Rabbit manure is great but harder to source. I don't think the bat guano market in general is sustainable in the long run.

Research in Jamaica has shown that mining for bat guano is directly related to the loss of bat species, associated invertebrates and fungi, and is the greatest threat to bat caves on the island.

When you say guano are you referring to bat or bird? I looked and seems the Incas used seabird guano. Yeah seabird guano helps with dankness enhancement and think it's mainly to do with the concentration of sea minerals and elements. Kelp is an OK source for that but other materials are much better and much more concentrated. Have heard that seabird guano sources are being depleted fast. Fossilized seabird guano is basically gone.

Agree with you about the overdoing ferts thing especially in hydro.