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Why is Organic Cannabis better?
- Thread starter Thomkal Vwalaa
- Start date
M
Mountain
I've grown just every which way from GH to organic in soil and almost everything in between. Organic was superior. When I'm talking about organic I'm not talking about bottle feeding but soil built with organic nutes, worm castings, minerals, compost, teas, etc. but I have bottle fed organics...and the results were inferior. Teas are more important when growing in containers.
Why is it better? I can only give an opinion as I have no research data except my own experience...
1. Organics honors the millions year old evolution of bacteria, fungi, etc. and plant genetics which evolved in tandem.
2. It's the 'intelligence' of the relationship between the plant and soil microflora communicating with each other providing what both need at the right time and in the right amounts.
3. Man cannot re-create the complexity of healthy and complete soil. No formula or combination of formulas created in a lab can match. It's still all about inputs though and organic soil and programs can be deficient. Still firmly believe in the limitations of the laboratory.
4. Man and his 'superior' intelligence and chemistry still cannot compare to nature's 'wisdom'. When is man gonna learn how to spin a web?
Yes salt ferts work but IME over the years they are not capable of producing superior cannabis.
Why is it better? I can only give an opinion as I have no research data except my own experience...
1. Organics honors the millions year old evolution of bacteria, fungi, etc. and plant genetics which evolved in tandem.
2. It's the 'intelligence' of the relationship between the plant and soil microflora communicating with each other providing what both need at the right time and in the right amounts.
3. Man cannot re-create the complexity of healthy and complete soil. No formula or combination of formulas created in a lab can match. It's still all about inputs though and organic soil and programs can be deficient. Still firmly believe in the limitations of the laboratory.
4. Man and his 'superior' intelligence and chemistry still cannot compare to nature's 'wisdom'. When is man gonna learn how to spin a web?
Yes salt ferts work but IME over the years they are not capable of producing superior cannabis.
It may sound weird but i agree with you C21. I've cut down a lot on my smoking and a lot of it had to with getting a quality product. I was at a point where i didnt think i could get high anymore. Funny how things change and now i couldnt imagine smoking bud and not feeling the effects. Than again i switch between types all day as i smoke so that can break a building tolerance.
BasementBreeder
Member
Seeing as how this is the Botany and Advanced Growing Section, can you please provide some non-anecdotal evidence for the claim in bold(research articles preferred, but not needed)?
http://books.google.com/books?id=hmYbjbGU-EgC&lpg=PA4&ots=oMqZxjIkXu&dq=influence%20of%20soil%20microbes%20on%20the%20production%20of%20secondary%20metabolites%20in%20higher%20plants&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q=influence%20of%20soil%20microbes%20on%20the%20production%20of%20secondary%20metabolites%20in%20higher%20plants&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=E0...econdary metabolites in higher plants&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=gq...in higher plants&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
Beneficial microbial allelopathies in the root zone: the management of soil quality and plant disease with rhizobacteria
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ad5fe4a31f6b4f1531eb7d87edf6184a&searchtype=a
http://books.google.com/books?id=E0...econdary metabolites in higher plants&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=gq...in higher plants&pg=PA105#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allelopathy
Beneficial microbial allelopathies in the root zone: the management of soil quality and plant disease with rhizobacteria
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...ad5fe4a31f6b4f1531eb7d87edf6184a&searchtype=a
Ok, I've read all through this and from an objective standpoint I have come to the conclusion that organic cannabis is better only because people believe it's better.
I really wanted to be convinced, it sounds like fun mixing up all that soil and messing about with the endless combinations of things you can put in it and I've tried it in the past to unspectacular results but either you lot are the worst possible representatives for organic gardening or there simply isn't a case to be made.
It appears to be entirely a matter of faith up there with any religion. No one has given *any* convincing evidence in this thread as to why organic is better just a lot of touchy feely stuff and unscientific mumbo jumbo that has no basis in objective reality.
On the other hand the pro "chemical" ferts people have clearly made a very strong case with a wealth of objective citations (in the face of much abuse and rudeness which is really not helping your cause organics people).
The evidence is pretty overwhelming, organics may be a fun hobby but it's certainly not the easiest way to go, you have to do a *lot* more work, it's far more expensive in the long run when you factor in added time and the obscurity of ingredients and wastage on what sounds like a *lot* of trial and error and worst of all: it simply doesn't provide the optimum yield.
I see the appeal of it, I really do, I too like intricate things like organics that require a lot of paraphernalia and arcane wisdom, but when it's to NO USEFUL PURPOSE then it's either strictly a hobby or insanity.
I really wanted to be convinced, it sounds like fun mixing up all that soil and messing about with the endless combinations of things you can put in it and I've tried it in the past to unspectacular results but either you lot are the worst possible representatives for organic gardening or there simply isn't a case to be made.
It appears to be entirely a matter of faith up there with any religion. No one has given *any* convincing evidence in this thread as to why organic is better just a lot of touchy feely stuff and unscientific mumbo jumbo that has no basis in objective reality.
On the other hand the pro "chemical" ferts people have clearly made a very strong case with a wealth of objective citations (in the face of much abuse and rudeness which is really not helping your cause organics people).
The evidence is pretty overwhelming, organics may be a fun hobby but it's certainly not the easiest way to go, you have to do a *lot* more work, it's far more expensive in the long run when you factor in added time and the obscurity of ingredients and wastage on what sounds like a *lot* of trial and error and worst of all: it simply doesn't provide the optimum yield.
I see the appeal of it, I really do, I too like intricate things like organics that require a lot of paraphernalia and arcane wisdom, but when it's to NO USEFUL PURPOSE then it's either strictly a hobby or insanity.
newbie2006
Member
This thread makes me think, thanks everybody!
I'd like to go organics, but I think with chems I can do it stealthier, I don't have to carry stuff inside so often.. I live in a small town and just don't want to attract any attention that would implicate that I grow stuff.
Of course a matter like this can be always made in nighttime or something like that, but I have bad experiences from such also..
I've had organic bud a few times. Man, it is so tasty. Especially when I tasted BOG's own stash, Sour Bubble BX3... Phew. Berrylike citrusy fruitsalad menthol herb smoke.. Potency off the hook, made everybody laugh like crazy.. That was a special night.
One experience was from a friend, a cross he had made himself tasted best so far years before the BOG experience.. It was really good too. I mean, better than I ever got in hydro.
Then in Australia I got some of my good friends buds.. I think this caused the most constant high potency OD season for me.. But was really fun. Those UV rays up there really give good THC values for outdoor crops..
...
The most restricting thing on this subject for me is that I cannot get many of the organic stuff locally, which then still causes huge impacts on the world when ordered from somewhere fly away
I'd like to go organics, but I think with chems I can do it stealthier, I don't have to carry stuff inside so often.. I live in a small town and just don't want to attract any attention that would implicate that I grow stuff.
Of course a matter like this can be always made in nighttime or something like that, but I have bad experiences from such also..
I've had organic bud a few times. Man, it is so tasty. Especially when I tasted BOG's own stash, Sour Bubble BX3... Phew. Berrylike citrusy fruitsalad menthol herb smoke.. Potency off the hook, made everybody laugh like crazy.. That was a special night.
One experience was from a friend, a cross he had made himself tasted best so far years before the BOG experience.. It was really good too. I mean, better than I ever got in hydro.
Then in Australia I got some of my good friends buds.. I think this caused the most constant high potency OD season for me.. But was really fun. Those UV rays up there really give good THC values for outdoor crops..
...
The most restricting thing on this subject for me is that I cannot get many of the organic stuff locally, which then still causes huge impacts on the world when ordered from somewhere fly away
BasementBreeder
Member
Wierd,
Thank you for the links. I learned quite a bit about the rhizosphere and alleopathy. While I agree that microbes can be beneficial(including "enhancing the availability of minerals and nutrients, improving nitrogen fixation ability, decreasing susceptibility to frost damage, improving plant health through the biocontrol of phytopathogens, inducing systemic plant disease resistance, and facilitating plant establishment, growth and development"), I saw nothing in the links that shows/claims microbial life can directly effect the production of secondary metabolites in plants.
To me, it seems that the microbes help keep the plant healthy in less than perfect conditions (ie, not indoor hydro where the roots are in an optimal nutrient solution, perfect environment, etc). I don't think they add anything to an already (near, i realize indoor lighting is flawed,) ideal system.
Thank you for the links. I learned quite a bit about the rhizosphere and alleopathy. While I agree that microbes can be beneficial(including "enhancing the availability of minerals and nutrients, improving nitrogen fixation ability, decreasing susceptibility to frost damage, improving plant health through the biocontrol of phytopathogens, inducing systemic plant disease resistance, and facilitating plant establishment, growth and development"), I saw nothing in the links that shows/claims microbial life can directly effect the production of secondary metabolites in plants.
To me, it seems that the microbes help keep the plant healthy in less than perfect conditions (ie, not indoor hydro where the roots are in an optimal nutrient solution, perfect environment, etc). I don't think they add anything to an already (near, i realize indoor lighting is flawed,) ideal system.
M
Mountain
I grew the same cut, thousands of them, over a 5 year period indoors and out. Used a GH salt program a commercial grower gave me that he'd been using forever. I played with the EC, pH and flush times. Got an AN salt program from another commercial grower he put together and tweaked over the years. Used Joeshmoe's Botanicare organic based program. Played with Earth juice bottled organics. Tried Roots Organics organic and organic based programs. Ended up with what I call 100% organic as I outlined above which was developed by the REv from Skunk magazine who's almost done with his book on the subject. Used rockwool, coco, coco based soilless and soil.
Have tried the same cut grown by numerous local friends using different nute programs than I did including vegan. Tried the same cut grown by Subrob and Nomaad. Subrob's vegan program produced herb with smoke a bit lacking in richness IMO but otherwise very nice. Nomaad's program rocked.
My opinion of why organics is better is based on my EXPERIENCE and not any religious thing, touchy feely scenario or belief that it's better. There's nothing a salt grower can tell me or sway me with any cites, references or scientific information of why there should be no difference.
BTW...I never 'flushed' my 100% organic weed. The first time I picked dark green plants cause I screwed up a bit and soon as it dried (without a cure) smoked sweeter and smoother than most any other way I grew. With a short cure it stood by itself
yeah, perhaps organic growers dont feel the need to justify themselves as much as chem growers. we know what's best for the plant and best for the planet - and besides that's not what this thread is about...
The organic cannabis isn't so much the issue as the organic SOIL is. You can post all the scientific articles on chemgrows and hydro that you want, but the fact is that my soil is WATER ONLY and produces results on par with any chemgrower. Its all about simplicity, homies. Let nature do the work and stop giving all your money away to the grow shops.
Wow, what a statement. I personally like to think I have an open mind and consider any point of view on it's merit but to each their own I guess.
Ha good one! Have you *read* this thread?
montehierba
Member
guys loving the threat...
good point verdantgreen.
Again am gonna say, idk if Organic is better cuz i seen some gnarly hydro shhhtuffff
but yes smell, taste n potency are the reasons we look for new strains for our gardens right?... so if we think about it for a second we should all have an organic garden so if we want to get the most off that plant in every angle
.it's organic don't panic
good point verdantgreen.
Again am gonna say, idk if Organic is better cuz i seen some gnarly hydro shhhtuffff
but yes smell, taste n potency are the reasons we look for new strains for our gardens right?... so if we think about it for a second we should all have an organic garden so if we want to get the most off that plant in every angle
i have.
M
Mountain
You just didn't get it. YEARS of EXPERIENCE with the same cut grown all those ways I said. It's not like I don't research and study stuff including salt growing. Got 20+ years research, development in the food industry including working extensively with labs troubleshooting problems. I fiddled and diddled with those growing programs, recording data (lots of meters), observing. Do the same thing I did then tell me what you've discovered and what your position is. I started with salts and the goal was to grow the highest quality cannabis I could and ended up with organics
So go start a thread titled something like 'Why is salt/chem/synth grown weed better?' and provide some data/proof/research/studies of WHY it's better. Show me something and I'll listen. I don't have proof why organics is better and just my observation/opinion and can only speculate. Some of this discussion could easily be resolved by lab testing such as looking at heavy metals, element levels and certain phytochemicals in plant tissue.
As for one of the reasons why organics is better for me...you don't need to flush
G
Guest3498
It's not a black a white issue...
1) People growing with straight up GH 3-part are getting bland boring tasting weed. "The Recipe" is a recipe for 'mersh... flushed or not...
2) Uppity organic growers who think a skiller grower can't replicate anything they do quality-wise with good bottled nutrients and additives are also fools. Sorry, but that's laughable. Go play with some bat poop.
1) People growing with straight up GH 3-part are getting bland boring tasting weed. "The Recipe" is a recipe for 'mersh... flushed or not...
2) Uppity organic growers who think a skiller grower can't replicate anything they do quality-wise with good bottled nutrients and additives are also fools. Sorry, but that's laughable. Go play with some bat poop.
