Why is Organic Cannabis better?

[imadoofus]

actually, the divide is much more significant in comparison.

hydro chems 3 to 1 against organic/whatver. yield

just for musings, lazyman, relate this, im sure youll get it.

technically, petro derived and synthesized chemical nutrients is, in its self, much more organic than your concuctions and worm poo brews...

COPIED

Organic material, like algae and zooplankton, that have died millions of year ago and sank to the bottom of the ocean were slowly buried by silt and other organic material to form layers. Under the intense pressure and heat of the ocean floor a chemical decomposition, called pyrolysis, occurred. This process can be complicated, but basically the chemical energy that was in these living things when they died is broken down into hydrocarbons. Different time lengths, organic material, and conditions change the properties of the oil, giving us thousands of different kinds of crude oils from light and sweet oils like West Texas Intermediate (WTI) to heavy and sour crudes like Dubai’s Fateh.''

our petro chems came from plants. how pure ya REALLY wanna go

 

[Lazyman]

actually, the divide is much more significant in comparison.

hydro chems 3 to 1 against organic/whatver. yield

just for musings, lazyman, relate this, im sure youll get it.

technically, petro derived and synthesized chemical nutrients is, in its self, much more organic than your concuctions and worm poo brews...

COPIED

Organic material, like algae and zooplankton, that have died millions of year ago and sank to the bottom of the ocean were slowly buried by silt and other organic material to form layers. Under the intense pressure and heat of the ocean floor a chemical decomposition, called pyrolysis, occurred. This process can be complicated, but basically the chemical energy that was in these living things when they died is broken down into hydrocarbons. Different time lengths, organic material, and conditions change the properties of the oil, giving us thousands of different kinds of crude oils from light and sweet oils like West Texas Intermediate (WTI) to heavy and sour crudes like Dubai’s Fateh.''

our petro chems came from plants. how pure ya REALLY wanna go

Never thought of it that way, but yeah. Technically compost etc is just very young petroleum, lol!

 

[imadoofus]

bullseye.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

bullseye.

correction: bullshit, wrong end of the bull.

 

[Lazyman]

Wait, so are you saying this is not how petroleum is formed? Please educate us.

 

[Microbeman]

Guess what? you guys have misinerpreted the goal of this thread which is; to attempt to state the reason why organically grown cannabis is better, not whether hydro is better. We already know it is not so take your little smatterings to a different thread. I have some hypotheses why organically grown plant tissue is better but I hesitate to publish it here because I do not have any supportive peer reviewed literature as has been requested.

I am in a fairly unique position, having grown and sold more cannabis with chemicals and naturally than most people can conceive of. I've grown also with chemical hydro although I did not like using the fungicides necessary for that genre.

That, however is not the discussion at hand. To present an argument here one needs to show differences in molecular nutrient uptake and tissue structure. Here are some promising links Thom but I could not afford to purchase them. Perhaps Spurr will look some up.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2269357

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0202584

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0344690

 

[pearlemae]

I don't know about you guys but the smoke I grow in a totally organic mix of my own dvice. Versus the smoke I get from buddy that deals with a consortium of small growers. Which use a high uality nute the name which escapes me cause I been drinking rum and ginger and smoking my weed. Any way I o notice a difference in the thoat burn God I'm hammered so perhaps I'll do this latter may be tomorroa.

 

[big ballin 88]

Thanks for the links MM.

Theres only one reason i can see hydro being 3 to 1 on yield and thats when stacking vertically. Its a little bit harder to hang pots and get a good stacked setup with soil. I still see hydro operation's drastically pay for that yield they care so much for. Between increased time involved and additional costs, make for a smaller returning the end. Especially when your pouring that money down the drain.

 

[Lazyman]

Sorry Microbeman but I disagree. saying "A is better than B" without any proof is an open invitation from the "B" crowd as to why this is not the case. Given that every ounce of scientific evidence says that:

Organic doesn't necessarily taste better
Organic food production wastes lots more water
Organic food isn't better for you
organic food does not have more nutrients in it
Organic food production takes 81% more space for the same yield
Organic field crop production has been shown to damage the soil and contaminate groundwater in some cases

Since there is a great deal of scientific consensus on these points, to argue to the contrary just seems, well, contrary. Are you saying the science is ALL wrong?

 

[imadoofus]

Never thought of it that way, but yeah. Technically compost etc is just very young petroleum, lol!

take into in account organic alchemist love to boast of extended brew times.

they should try 3 million years, hard pressed petro. from the womb of sweet mother earth herself!



what?

 

[Microbeman]

Sorry Microbeman but I disagree. saying "A is better than B" without any proof is an open invitation from the "B" crowd as to why this is not the case. Given that every ounce of scientific evidence says that:

Organic is not better for you
Organic doesn't necessarily taste better
Organic food production wastes lots more water
Organic food isn't better for you
organic food does not have more nutrients in it
Organic food production takes 81% more space for the same yield
Organic field crop production has been shown to damage the soil and contaminate groundwater in some cases

Since there is a great deal of scientific consensus on these points, to argue to the contrary just seems, well, contrary. Are you saying the science is ALL wrong?

I did not realize you had paid for and read the papers posted. Pardon my ignorance.

 

[imadoofus]

observation

observation

correction: bullshit, wrong end of the bull.

i dont run with the herd

 

[Lazyman]

MM you're being obtuse. No, I'm not paying for the papers, if you are so convinced they will help your argument, you pay for them and post them here. You can't prove a negative, that's basic scientific theory.

The first link concluded that:

CNV and ORG production systems could not be distinguished based on agronomic criteria such as fruit yield and arthropod pest damage levels.

That's not hydro versus organic either, but field crops vs organic field crops. The ONLY difference there is the fertilizer applied.

The second link you posted conluded that:

The concentration of oxidation products in organic samples of both fruits was comparable to that of the corresponding conventional ones. These data provide evidence that an improvement in the antioxidant defense system of the plant occurred as a consequence of the organic cultivation practice. This is likely to exert protection against damage of fruit when grown in the absence of pesticides.

Much like the first study, this was done in field crops (peaches and pears) which are not grown hydroponically, so comparative discussion cannot be had. Many indoor hydro farms use no pesticides at all, so one might expect similar oxidant results from those, correct?

Your third link about plums is similar to the second link, but compared antioxidants compared amongst soil-grown plants. The differences in macronutrients were marginal, and the conventional plums and organic plums each excelled in production of some acids. Yawn. You're comparing two nearly identical cultivation methods, save for the nutrients they were fed, and got inconclusive results.

So let's compare something that CAN and IS grown hydroponically versus an organic field grown crop, shall we?

tthe title of the thread is "Why is organic cannabis better?"

I say it's not better than hydro, otherwise what are you comparing it TO?

 

[SativaHybrid]

Lazyman i understand where you are coming from but you are completley ignoring the most critical detail. To see the full potential of organic gardening you must create a soil ecosystem that is not only living but composed of organisms that have symbiotic relationships with cannabis. This can easily address your largest source of skepticism which is your personal experience (or so i assume). As you said yourself you used "Pura Vida organics" and saw about a 10% reduction in yield. Using these bottles as the only source of organic nutrients is like saying your a vegetarian because you only eat meat sometimes and usually only meat that isn't red. If you are asserting that when using bottled fertilizers in a hydro setup organics don't prove beneficial then maybe your points are sound.

I will agree completley that organics are not for everyone and not beneficial in every situation. However when used to it's fullest organic gardening practices prove beneficial. Organic gardening practices entail much more than is usually talked about. Organic gardening in it's truest form (not just what is usually classified as USDA organic) covers everything from the pesticides, to the fertilizers, the fungicides, etc. Not to mention all of the many beneficial practices that further enhance the organic gardeners results. I would go into these here but you can look into them many are covered here on icmag.

The articles you have linked to; while mostly sound also ignore the aforementioned. These industries are not necessarily relatable to cannabis because they are a completley different types of commodities. While these plants to some extent benefit from organic practices, it's not to the extent of what is experienced with cannabis and these benefits are not as valuable to the end consumer. These markets do not have the price per unit to encourage true full scale organic practices. To find a product that has a large enough market to have scientific articles widely available and a similar market to cannabis we look to wine. There is a wealth of information on this subject and it covers the subtle effects the ecosytem can play on the final characteristics of a plant.

As for sustainability you ignore far too many variables. First off if we are discussing a sustainable approach indoor growing is rarely an optimal solution. In most cases the environmental impact of the electricity, the impariment to the ecosystem caused by large permant structures, the use of a whole host of dangerous chemicals needed to control the indoor environment, etc. more than agument the environmental benefits of hydroponics. For a good example of sustainable practices take a look at Terra Preta. It was used sucessfully for over a 1000 years to turn relatively infertile soil into what is to this day known as one of the best soils in the world. All of its properties are not fully known nor can all of its effects be explained. But still to this day even after centuries of this soil being no longer modified by it's creators it is sustaining it's unusally high level of nutrients and bio activity.

No one who is serious about this issue is claiming that the organic sources of these ferts are somehow magically better than their petroleum counterparts. However when used properly and synergisticly organic practices do provide many benefits not attainable with petrolem based products.

 

[imadoofus]

''No one who is serious about this issue is claiming that the organic sources of these ferts are somehow magically better than their petroleum counterparts. However when used properly and synergisticly organic practices do provide many benefits not attainable with petrolem based products.''

please explain these unattainable benefits.

cause, that sounds like a contridiction unwisely worded.

 

[SativaHybrid]

I did explain very clearly when growing organically one can create a ecosystem that is not only living but contains organisms that have a symbiotic relationship with cannabis. Thus you are aiding the plant to obtain results that are not possible without said symbiotic relationships being present. I know your next question is what are these benefits. They range from increased pest resistance, to increased nutrient uptake, to increased resistance to environmental conditions etc.

 

[Microbeman]

That's not hydro versus organic either, but field crops vs organic field crops.

Bingo; Smart guy. So maybe you can discuss your hydro someplace else okay? Orange you the one saying one cannot compare different substances?

 

[Microbeman]

''No one who is serious about this issue is claiming that the organic sources of these ferts are somehow magically better than their petroleum counterparts. However when used properly and synergisticly organic practices do provide many benefits not attainable with petrolem based products.''

please explain these unattainable benefits.

cause, that sounds like a contridiction unwisely worded.

You are a doofus

 

[Microbeman]

Sativa H. You have much more patience than I. I did bring up Terra Preta too but it just whistled through their ears.

 

[imadoofus]

oh, thats fascinating stuff!

kinda makes me wish i paid attention more in middle school. thermal pollution, designer drugs, all that jazz.

however, if one is to promote a certain cannabis feeding regimen, i require more tangible validation than subjective conjecture.

if organics does create this symbiotic root sim city, why are all the attributes you cited lacking variables that are important not only to me, but the majority of the masses.

yield? growth? potency? efficiency? are these not pertinent?

every topic you offered regarding organics is almost entirely outdoor based.

there are no bugs in my lab. lol.