Also check out this thread, this has been argued to death here: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=172222&highlight=lazyman
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Why is Organic Cannabis better?
- Thread starter Thomkal Vwalaa
- Start date
On the contrary most cutting edge horticulture and independent research is concerned with harnessing microbial based growing. For one tiny example look at the scientific astonishment and puzzlement over the Terra Preta beds. BTW if you are too Lazyman to do the research, I can provide some reading material.
We've had various salt-nute formulas for decades.
We've had various organic-nute formulas for decades.
Both eventually provide the same, (chemical) availability to plants.
We've had various organic-nute formulas for decades.
Both eventually provide the same, (chemical) availability to plants.
Correct! The salt-nutes just does it faster, which is key for indoor crops. Outdoors there is more time for the soil to do its thing and feed the plant, but waiting for this to occur indoors costs in yield.
Budsworth
Member
You bring up organic milk. And my experience with organic milk was the reason that I went with organics in my garden.
I was "allergic" to milk as a very small child. However, over the years, milk creeped back into my diet. And I sort of "forgot" that I had been diagnosed as allergic when I was just a newborn.
I didn't figure out until years later the random pain I would get in my intestines. Would seriously bend me over in pain...and occasionally even LITERALLY bring me to my knees.
Wife said, "You're allergic to milk.". I had forgotten about that lol.
So...to Soy milk I went. It's tasty. It's just not milk.
Well...one day my doorbell rings. This Indian (as in from India) gentlemen is at my door selling milk service for Royal Crest. I tell him I'm allergic to milk.
"No you are not, my friend."
"Excuse me? Listen I don't know who you are, but I'm allergic to milk. It's time for you to leave."
"My friend, you are not allergic to milk. And to prove it, I'm giving you a half gallon of our ORGANIC milk for free. Today you take a shot. If you have no pain, tomorrow you drink a small glass. If you have no pain, the next day you drink a tall glass of milk. If you finish this half gallon, and you experience no pain...you promise to join our milk service.".
I looked at him sideways. To get rid of him, I said, "Sure. Give me the milk. I'll give it a whirl.".
He was right. No pain. At all. I hadn't gone without feeling pain when I drank milk in literally 30 years. And I still drank it because I loved it so much.
But the organic milk...no pain....better taste. WAY better taste. And...of course...no pain.
So I called him up after the week and told him I finished it...and I would like to subscribe to his service. I asked him, "So explain to me how I can drink this with no pain?".
"Yes sir. You are not allergic to milk. You are allergic to the steroids and hormones they give the cattle. This is how it is with most people that have been told they are "allergic".
Since that day....I'm back to drink tons of milk. Tons of ORGANIC milk. I've also turned many "allergic" friends onto organic milk and have many acquaintances who now thank me for figuring out their "allergy".
And that was it. When I started my garden, I told myself, "This HAS to be organic.".
Here's the downside:
The vast majority of people don't know the difference in flavor or smell. They just see bag appeal. And they like those massive (tasteless) buds that look like their on steroids. You can't explain to stoners that that "swoled up" bud is inferior to the smaller, less spectacular looking organic. They just want massive, sugary dicks...just like their hydro growing counterparts.
It's gotten to the point where I think I may just have a small soil grow for me and the friends...like a "reserve grow" for heads and people I care about...
and then doing hydro for everybody else.
Hey...you want giant fake looking buds that taste like shit and are full of chemicals...you got it. You don't deserve organic.
At least I'd take care of the all important yields.
I was "allergic" to milk as a very small child. However, over the years, milk creeped back into my diet. And I sort of "forgot" that I had been diagnosed as allergic when I was just a newborn.
I didn't figure out until years later the random pain I would get in my intestines. Would seriously bend me over in pain...and occasionally even LITERALLY bring me to my knees.
Wife said, "You're allergic to milk.". I had forgotten about that lol.
So...to Soy milk I went. It's tasty. It's just not milk.
Well...one day my doorbell rings. This Indian (as in from India) gentlemen is at my door selling milk service for Royal Crest. I tell him I'm allergic to milk.
"No you are not, my friend."
"Excuse me? Listen I don't know who you are, but I'm allergic to milk. It's time for you to leave."
"My friend, you are not allergic to milk. And to prove it, I'm giving you a half gallon of our ORGANIC milk for free. Today you take a shot. If you have no pain, tomorrow you drink a small glass. If you have no pain, the next day you drink a tall glass of milk. If you finish this half gallon, and you experience no pain...you promise to join our milk service.".
I looked at him sideways. To get rid of him, I said, "Sure. Give me the milk. I'll give it a whirl.".
He was right. No pain. At all. I hadn't gone without feeling pain when I drank milk in literally 30 years. And I still drank it because I loved it so much.
But the organic milk...no pain....better taste. WAY better taste. And...of course...no pain.
So I called him up after the week and told him I finished it...and I would like to subscribe to his service. I asked him, "So explain to me how I can drink this with no pain?".
"Yes sir. You are not allergic to milk. You are allergic to the steroids and hormones they give the cattle. This is how it is with most people that have been told they are "allergic".
Since that day....I'm back to drink tons of milk. Tons of ORGANIC milk. I've also turned many "allergic" friends onto organic milk and have many acquaintances who now thank me for figuring out their "allergy".
And that was it. When I started my garden, I told myself, "This HAS to be organic.".
Here's the downside:
The vast majority of people don't know the difference in flavor or smell. They just see bag appeal. And they like those massive (tasteless) buds that look like their on steroids. You can't explain to stoners that that "swoled up" bud is inferior to the smaller, less spectacular looking organic. They just want massive, sugary dicks...just like their hydro growing counterparts.
It's gotten to the point where I think I may just have a small soil grow for me and the friends...like a "reserve grow" for heads and people I care about...
and then doing hydro for everybody else.
Hey...you want giant fake looking buds that taste like shit and are full of chemicals...you got it. You don't deserve organic.
At least I'd take care of the all important yields.
Budsworth, if you want taste in your buds (and who doesn't?) I found that adding some GH Diamond nectar (humic acids etc) and Floranectar added so much smell and flavor that people also accuse me of growing organic weed every week. It's not hard to get these flavors, it just takes reading and practice.
The milk analogy is anecdotal, you can't presume that because organic milk is good that organic weed is any better. That's like saying "well my Cadillac is American, so therefore Chevy must be good." It's apples and oranges my friend!
The milk analogy is anecdotal, you can't presume that because organic milk is good that organic weed is any better. That's like saying "well my Cadillac is American, so therefore Chevy must be good." It's apples and oranges my friend!
Budsworth
Member
Explain to my why I can drink organic milk and not regular milk.
Penn & Teller...is that your "libertarian" choice for acceptable information? Fuck Penn & Teller.
I watched a video on the guy that held many of the vegetable records. Guess what...organic.
Let's get with the times, person!
Lazyman-See the one thing that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is comparing bottled chem nutes to bottled "organic-blended" nutes.
First off any time you pay for a bottled nute, your paying for water. Second your paying for a BLENDED organic nutrient. Not fully organic. Thats why your attempt probably was less than optimal.
I think you should either be chem or organic. Mixing both i dont know with the exception of Sea kelp. Like i posted earlier hydro situations were the only one's where i saw organics yield less and that is till recently.
Those who say that organics yielded less, it may be because of a couple factors.
First and most important is an established, living soil. without one your screwed and your organics will suck. Blended organic/chem IMO is a marketing scam pointed towards the chem-hydro crowd trying to make the switch. Their usefulness is very low however since they inhibit the growth and multiplication of these microorganism that are so necessary.
If you have a well established soil there is no need for any additional nutrinets. everything is in the soil. It takes 2 weeks to get mine ready and it feeds the whole season.
Bring up flushing if you'd like but anybody who has smoked my bud cant understand why its so smooth and why it doesn't crackle or burn black.
Second, Organics more expensive? HAHAHAHA!!!!! I could laugh more but you wouldnt understand. How does the world grow around us without all of these chem nutes? Our forests and grasslands must be dying for some salts. Organics has been around forever and you can make most of the ingredients around you by buying some plants. Farming is sustainable if you do it right and true organics is one of the few ways.
jaykush got me off buying ferts. I use plants from around the house. Living organisms that break down the matter and lastly have a finished nutrient that i can bottle and sell to you for 5x the price just because I CAN!!!
First off any time you pay for a bottled nute, your paying for water. Second your paying for a BLENDED organic nutrient. Not fully organic. Thats why your attempt probably was less than optimal.
I think you should either be chem or organic. Mixing both i dont know with the exception of Sea kelp. Like i posted earlier hydro situations were the only one's where i saw organics yield less and that is till recently.
Those who say that organics yielded less, it may be because of a couple factors.
First and most important is an established, living soil. without one your screwed and your organics will suck. Blended organic/chem IMO is a marketing scam pointed towards the chem-hydro crowd trying to make the switch. Their usefulness is very low however since they inhibit the growth and multiplication of these microorganism that are so necessary.
If you have a well established soil there is no need for any additional nutrinets. everything is in the soil. It takes 2 weeks to get mine ready and it feeds the whole season.
Bring up flushing if you'd like but anybody who has smoked my bud cant understand why its so smooth and why it doesn't crackle or burn black.
Second, Organics more expensive? HAHAHAHA!!!!! I could laugh more but you wouldnt understand. How does the world grow around us without all of these chem nutes? Our forests and grasslands must be dying for some salts. Organics has been around forever and you can make most of the ingredients around you by buying some plants. Farming is sustainable if you do it right and true organics is one of the few ways.
jaykush got me off buying ferts. I use plants from around the house. Living organisms that break down the matter and lastly have a finished nutrient that i can bottle and sell to you for 5x the price just because I CAN!!!
Budsworth
Member
Organic in general is better. The milk analogy is a PERFECT example of the crap they put in non organic food to increase yields, look.
It's chemicals. If you want it in your body, fine. I don't want it in mine.
And considering that regular milk would drop me over in moaning pain in public kind of did it for me. I was fearful I had colitis. That's how painful it was.
You want giant roided out buds....go you.
the only thing that matters in this arguement is which do you prefer. If you've grown hydroponic chem your whole career switching to organic hydro's gonna be a big learning curve. People fail both ways, its really about personal preference.
hi Lazyman
im no expert on hydro but arent those two products organic though? or at least their ingredients are largely organic even if not listed. if you recommend those to improve smell/flavour then arent you arguing against your original point that chem is just as good??
Here's some tidbits I pulled from the "Organic think tank" thread most of you won't read (it sIS 15 pages of this:
Lettuce farmer switched from organic to hydro:
http://www.livinglettuce.com/debate.htm
There is a huge debate about the value of "organic" fertilizers and methods. Currently accepted organic fertilizer components are dependent upon organisms in the soil to convert the "organic" materials into a useable form for plants.
At Living Lettuce Farms, we provide the minerals required for plant growth directly, completely eliminating the need for soil and soil-organisms.
The result is much higher growth rates, yields and even crop quality than organic methods can achieve. This is not what some people want to hear, but it is the simple scientific truth - and practically all scientists and educators in the fields of agriculture and chemistry know it and will be the first to agree. In fact, the kinds of materials that are permitted for use under "organic" regulations are not of sufficient purity to be used for hydroponic culture.
How about tomatoes?
http://www.simplyhydro.com/f_a_q.htm#hydroponics_is_bad_for_the_environment
Myth: Hydroponics produces huge super-plants
This myth has some foundation in truth but there is an important aspect to consider. Every seed, like all living things, already has a genetic code that will determine its general size, yield potential and flavor. Hydroponics can't turn a cherry tomato into a beefsteak tomato but it can turn it into the best cherry tomato it can be. Therefore, start with the best genetics possible.
Getting a plant to grow to its highest potential in common soil is difficult because of the hundreds of variables in the soil's make-up which influence the plant and its growth. It is the ability to control these variables that makes hydroponics superior to conventional gardening. In addition, factor that a plant in soil expends a great portion of energy working for its food in a way that hydro plants do not. The diva existence of a hydroponic plant allows it to send that extra energy into faster growth, dense vegetation, larger yields and more flavorful produce.
Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres. But organics are BETTER???
On organic marketing and peppers:
http://www.simplyhydro.com/harvesting__profits.htm
The two obstacles I most often encounter are the fact that my produce is not labeled "organic" and that hydroponics is not traditionally known to be of excellent quality. The latter is easy to overcome once the buyer has tasted my produce, but the former is handled with a little more delicacy. One argument is of course that we use no pesticide, no herbicide and no chemical pest control. Then I present a study on a tissue analysis that has been made on our peppers. It shows that, not only do they contain more vitamins than soil grown peppers, but they contain not even a trace of heavy metals which are harmful to human consumption. I think this is due to the excellent quality of nutrients and the water-culture system that we use. In this manner, I have been able to sell our produce to even the organic grocers in our area. I give them a sign with our logo and a text describing our produce to hang on their shelves. Their clients have proven to accept our produce since they have been selling more basil than ever before!
Ok how about strawberries?
http://thehydroponicshop.com/hydroponic-gardening/how-to-grow-and-nurture-hydroponic-strawberries
Throughout the world, farmers are taking up hydroponics in a big way. It has been proved that this method of production is high yielding and eco friendly. Farmers have found hydroponic strawberries to be a very convenient and high quality substitute.
Other than this, there are other benefits of growing hydroponic strawberries. Some of them are as follows:
1. Excellent taste- These strawberries taste great. You’ll never have enough of them.
2. High picking rate- They grow at a great altitude so the while the picking rate grows, it's simple and less laborious to cultivate.
3. High yields per plant- If you take into account the yield per plant given by hydroponic strawberries, you will see that these plants are far more productive than the ones grown in soil. Any kind of soil can be used since there is no pest or weed trouble.
4. Space utilization- Also, they can be grown in stacks so that the air space is used. In this way, you can make the garden reach great heights. This can be done as water can reach high levels.
5. No seasonal cultivation- These strawberries are not dependent on seasons. So you may grow them at any point of time.
Or how about cucumbers?
Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres.
...are ignored.
Hydroponics outyielding soil by 400%. Not 1 or 5 or 10%, but 400%. Or growing the same amount of crops in 81% less space.
If I'm wrong, thousands of hydroponic businesses, and countless tons of food are too. If you think they're all wrong, I'd be glad to post their phone numbers so you can call them and convince them to change their farms to organics.
Lettuce farmer switched from organic to hydro:
http://www.livinglettuce.com/debate.htm
There is a huge debate about the value of "organic" fertilizers and methods. Currently accepted organic fertilizer components are dependent upon organisms in the soil to convert the "organic" materials into a useable form for plants.
At Living Lettuce Farms, we provide the minerals required for plant growth directly, completely eliminating the need for soil and soil-organisms.
The result is much higher growth rates, yields and even crop quality than organic methods can achieve. This is not what some people want to hear, but it is the simple scientific truth - and practically all scientists and educators in the fields of agriculture and chemistry know it and will be the first to agree. In fact, the kinds of materials that are permitted for use under "organic" regulations are not of sufficient purity to be used for hydroponic culture.
How about tomatoes?
http://www.simplyhydro.com/f_a_q.htm#hydroponics_is_bad_for_the_environment
Myth: Hydroponics produces huge super-plants
This myth has some foundation in truth but there is an important aspect to consider. Every seed, like all living things, already has a genetic code that will determine its general size, yield potential and flavor. Hydroponics can't turn a cherry tomato into a beefsteak tomato but it can turn it into the best cherry tomato it can be. Therefore, start with the best genetics possible.
Getting a plant to grow to its highest potential in common soil is difficult because of the hundreds of variables in the soil's make-up which influence the plant and its growth. It is the ability to control these variables that makes hydroponics superior to conventional gardening. In addition, factor that a plant in soil expends a great portion of energy working for its food in a way that hydro plants do not. The diva existence of a hydroponic plant allows it to send that extra energy into faster growth, dense vegetation, larger yields and more flavorful produce.
Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres. But organics are BETTER???
On organic marketing and peppers:
http://www.simplyhydro.com/harvesting__profits.htm
The two obstacles I most often encounter are the fact that my produce is not labeled "organic" and that hydroponics is not traditionally known to be of excellent quality. The latter is easy to overcome once the buyer has tasted my produce, but the former is handled with a little more delicacy. One argument is of course that we use no pesticide, no herbicide and no chemical pest control. Then I present a study on a tissue analysis that has been made on our peppers. It shows that, not only do they contain more vitamins than soil grown peppers, but they contain not even a trace of heavy metals which are harmful to human consumption. I think this is due to the excellent quality of nutrients and the water-culture system that we use. In this manner, I have been able to sell our produce to even the organic grocers in our area. I give them a sign with our logo and a text describing our produce to hang on their shelves. Their clients have proven to accept our produce since they have been selling more basil than ever before!
Ok how about strawberries?
http://thehydroponicshop.com/hydroponic-gardening/how-to-grow-and-nurture-hydroponic-strawberries
Throughout the world, farmers are taking up hydroponics in a big way. It has been proved that this method of production is high yielding and eco friendly. Farmers have found hydroponic strawberries to be a very convenient and high quality substitute.
Other than this, there are other benefits of growing hydroponic strawberries. Some of them are as follows:
1. Excellent taste- These strawberries taste great. You’ll never have enough of them.
2. High picking rate- They grow at a great altitude so the while the picking rate grows, it's simple and less laborious to cultivate.
3. High yields per plant- If you take into account the yield per plant given by hydroponic strawberries, you will see that these plants are far more productive than the ones grown in soil. Any kind of soil can be used since there is no pest or weed trouble.
4. Space utilization- Also, they can be grown in stacks so that the air space is used. In this way, you can make the garden reach great heights. This can be done as water can reach high levels.
5. No seasonal cultivation- These strawberries are not dependent on seasons. So you may grow them at any point of time.
Or how about cucumbers?
Dr. Howard M. Resh, in his book HYDROPONIC FOOD PRODUCTION, cites vegetable yield increases that are dramatic; identical cucumber plants produced 7,000 pounds per acre in soil but 28,000 pounds per acre when grown hydroponically and tomato yields that ranged from 5 to 10 tons per acre in soil but 60 to 300 tons per hydroponic acre. The reported results are typical for practically any plant. Said another way, to produce the total number of tomatoes consumed annually in Canada (400 million pounds) requires 25,000 acres of soil. Hydroponically, it would require only 1,300 acres.
...are ignored.
Hydroponics outyielding soil by 400%. Not 1 or 5 or 10%, but 400%. Or growing the same amount of crops in 81% less space.
If I'm wrong, thousands of hydroponic businesses, and countless tons of food are too. If you think they're all wrong, I'd be glad to post their phone numbers so you can call them and convince them to change their farms to organics.
hi Lazyman
im no expert on hydro but arent those two products organic though? or at least their ingredients are largely organic even if not listed. if you recommend those to improve smell/flavour then arent you arguing against your original point that chem is just as good??
Great question!
I distinguish organic grows from chem grows based largely on the soil. if you're using organics, almost all of them are quantified by using a living medium chock full of microlife to digest the compost and manures that are applied to feed the plants. (If you disagree please comment!)
I technically use a hydroponic grow (nutrients fed with the water) using coco, and feeding nutes mixed in barrels. The Diamond Nectar product is probably NOT used by most organic growers, as humic acid is a product of rich organic soil, so more is not needed.
Any humic acid would help, but this one is easy to find at the store and mixes well with water. So in a way you're right, I'm adding some organic components to my reservoirs, and there are a number of others that would probably qualify, but since this is neither their primary food source, and using DN certainly doesn't qualify my garden as organic, I think it's just a matter of using what works. I did see a place that sells dry humic acid in concentrate, and it's much cheaper so I will probably switch to that soon (DN is not cheap.)
montehierba
Member
EARTH'S GAIA
EARTH'S GAIA
Very intresting thread, delivers a punch of controversy and flavour, first of all i got to say organic... better idk...i have had some awesome indoor/hydro, mindblowing stuff as well as the yummiest tasting and smelling organic herb.
It is a proven fact that a vegetable of fruit or herb grown with organic matter can and will have ten times more nutricional value then if grown with chemical fertilizers, wich means i would have to eat ten chemical tomatoes to get the value of an organic one so Hhmmmmm.....yeah
i think am not gonna panic and stick to organic.
Marihuana can absorb essences from air and earth,so how could a bit of chemical fertilizer give a plant that natural cycle?...hard to beat i 'd have to say, hydro has tons of pros but flavour is not one of them, i beg my grower friend to please switch over,you will know when u just will never have enough bud to share.
The link of a plant with eart is lost as soon as that plant is pulled from the soil and set in pot or hydro sistem so is not all about organic fertilizers, it is also about keeping that link alive and thriving.
EARTH'S GAIA
Very intresting thread, delivers a punch of controversy and flavour, first of all i got to say organic... better idk...i have had some awesome indoor/hydro, mindblowing stuff as well as the yummiest tasting and smelling organic herb.
It is a proven fact that a vegetable of fruit or herb grown with organic matter can and will have ten times more nutricional value then if grown with chemical fertilizers, wich means i would have to eat ten chemical tomatoes to get the value of an organic one so Hhmmmmm.....yeah
i think am not gonna panic and stick to organic.Marihuana can absorb essences from air and earth,so how could a bit of chemical fertilizer give a plant that natural cycle?...hard to beat i 'd have to say, hydro has tons of pros but flavour is not one of them, i beg my grower friend to please switch over,you will know when u just will never have enough bud to share.
The link of a plant with eart is lost as soon as that plant is pulled from the soil and set in pot or hydro sistem so is not all about organic fertilizers, it is also about keeping that link alive and thriving.
U
unthing
Hi there
Couple of questions:
1.What is the mystery in soil that makes it different from hydro regarding taste? Unknown microbial excrete compound, humic and fulvic acids or some mineral/compound in soil that can be sucked up by roots? Does it exist?
2.Indoors is there really some ecological difference between hydro and soil as you're using tons of electricity and water anyways? Ecoguanos and composting sound nice and one can disconnect from bottled ferts, but what if everybody used these ethic guanos, collected plants from nature and so on. Is it really eco if everybody did it? I mean if you scale up those things will some efficiency and ecological issues arise?
Hopefully that doesn't sound too hostile
I find both hydro and organics interesting in their own way
Couple of questions:
1.What is the mystery in soil that makes it different from hydro regarding taste? Unknown microbial excrete compound, humic and fulvic acids or some mineral/compound in soil that can be sucked up by roots? Does it exist?
2.Indoors is there really some ecological difference between hydro and soil as you're using tons of electricity and water anyways? Ecoguanos and composting sound nice and one can disconnect from bottled ferts, but what if everybody used these ethic guanos, collected plants from nature and so on. Is it really eco if everybody did it? I mean if you scale up those things will some efficiency and ecological issues arise?
Hopefully that doesn't sound too hostile
I find both hydro and organics interesting in their own way
Last edited:
allow me to apologize for the the biased attitude of my post.
no, verdant, ORGANIC doesnt do very well, in the format i grow in.
i do ok, i guess. i grow with each grow
chems over organic in indoor hydro, that must be stated. organics, like many aspects of cannabis culture, has it place.
but to say 1 produces a better result in product in regards to subjective topics(taste, smell, potency) is arguing an opinion.
a proper cure is more relevant to taste and smell than anything used in the feeding regimen.
no, verdant, ORGANIC doesnt do very well, in the format i grow in.
i do ok, i guess. i grow with each grow
chems over organic in indoor hydro, that must be stated. organics, like many aspects of cannabis culture, has it place.
but to say 1 produces a better result in product in regards to subjective topics(taste, smell, potency) is arguing an opinion.
a proper cure is more relevant to taste and smell than anything used in the feeding regimen.
Hey Unthing good to see ya around!
I think its the all around biosphere which gives plants their differences. I'm not saying hydro tastes better or yields better i have no experience with that since i failed my first times and switched, never looking back. The experience I have is relative to harshness and cost
I do believe that the exudates of roots greatly influence their taste. Different compounds are released to stimulate or cease certain actions. This allows plants to conform to different situations and maintain efficiency. I'm not sure if any of these are aromatic but i'm sure there are some that bring different characteristics. Where do the aromatics of cannabis come from anyways? Its either soil or air, how else did the plant produce it.
Speaking figuratively a humid, hot biosphere may yield a tastier Chemdawg D clone than from a dry, cold place. Just like grapes from one region may differ from a grapes in the same state but out of the overall biosphere.
I dont know if these exudates have aromatic compounds, but i do know that cannabis soaks up a lot from its surroundings like montiherba said. If i remember correctly, I read an article where they suggested using hemp to soak up heavy metals in the ground.
The main thing is organics is not just about one thing in particular its about diversity. We dont need to buy any of these things that are marketed towards us. Its just people trying to make money. Depending on how far your willing to go you can cross out all of the stuff you used to buy by substitution. In order to substitute for some of the long term effects of guano i use rock meals (azomite and zeolite) combined with sea kelp and fish hydroslate which cost the same as a box of guano for enough to last me 3 years. Specialty organic supplements in my mind are just hype as most supplements are in our world...
I just believe sustainable farming is helpful to anybody. It saves you money from small growers all the way to large farms if used correctly. It also allows us to utilize certain things we consider trash. So yes i believe if everybody did it, it would be even more eco-friendly.
Utilizing things we consider as trash such as old fruit, breads, fish bones, papers, saw dust, ash and much more can help decrease our overall impact on landfills.
Imadoofus- I agree with you. This is just a subjective argument that comes down to personal preference. I run a passive hydroponic situation by using blumat's jr's and it has greatly improved the speed and yield of my plants. I think hydroponics has a new future that can utilize a fully organic grow without problems typically associated with hydro and true organics.
I think its the all around biosphere which gives plants their differences. I'm not saying hydro tastes better or yields better i have no experience with that since i failed my first times and switched, never looking back. The experience I have is relative to harshness and cost
I do believe that the exudates of roots greatly influence their taste. Different compounds are released to stimulate or cease certain actions. This allows plants to conform to different situations and maintain efficiency. I'm not sure if any of these are aromatic but i'm sure there are some that bring different characteristics. Where do the aromatics of cannabis come from anyways? Its either soil or air, how else did the plant produce it.
Speaking figuratively a humid, hot biosphere may yield a tastier Chemdawg D clone than from a dry, cold place. Just like grapes from one region may differ from a grapes in the same state but out of the overall biosphere.
I dont know if these exudates have aromatic compounds, but i do know that cannabis soaks up a lot from its surroundings like montiherba said. If i remember correctly, I read an article where they suggested using hemp to soak up heavy metals in the ground.
The main thing is organics is not just about one thing in particular its about diversity. We dont need to buy any of these things that are marketed towards us. Its just people trying to make money. Depending on how far your willing to go you can cross out all of the stuff you used to buy by substitution. In order to substitute for some of the long term effects of guano i use rock meals (azomite and zeolite) combined with sea kelp and fish hydroslate which cost the same as a box of guano for enough to last me 3 years. Specialty organic supplements in my mind are just hype as most supplements are in our world...
I just believe sustainable farming is helpful to anybody. It saves you money from small growers all the way to large farms if used correctly. It also allows us to utilize certain things we consider trash. So yes i believe if everybody did it, it would be even more eco-friendly.
Utilizing things we consider as trash such as old fruit, breads, fish bones, papers, saw dust, ash and much more can help decrease our overall impact on landfills.
Imadoofus- I agree with you. This is just a subjective argument that comes down to personal preference. I run a passive hydroponic situation by using blumat's jr's and it has greatly improved the speed and yield of my plants. I think hydroponics has a new future that can utilize a fully organic grow without problems typically associated with hydro and true organics.
Ok, so I should stop injecting my chem weed with Bovine growth hormone, so you can drink it? You're trying to draw an analogy (based on anecdotal evidence) that ALL organic products are better than ALL chemicals. That is not the debate we're having.
So you have found some milk that doesn't make you sick, that's great, I am truly happy for you. But let's not pretend this has anything to do with anything else.
Someone pointed out that the articles I posted were from hydro websites and therfore biased. I can understand that, it's often easier to find testimonies from people who are using a particular technology. Here are some sources that aren't from pro-hydro sites:
Wikipedia for starters (if it's wrong, cite your sources and fix it!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics
The UK Food Safety Agency says: http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2003/jun/cheltenham
Now for the question 'Is organic food better for you?'
In our view the current scientific evidence does not show that organic food is any safer or more nutritious than conventionally produced food.
Nor are we alone in this assessment. For instance, the French Food Safety Agency (AFSSA) has recently published a comprehensive 128-page review which concludes that there is no difference in terms of food safety and nutrition.
Here is a research paper on several crops in Thailand being grown with better yields and success over traditional farming methods:
http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/english/publication/working/30/30-02-09.pdf
Qatar National Food Security Programme:
http://www.qnfsp.gov.qa/programme/agriculture/crop-production/hydroponics
One hectare of hydroponics farm can produce 200-300 tonnes of vegetables per year. This is five to 10 times more than the yield of any commercially grown crop in open field.
A study undertaken by the Australian Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation (RIRDC), shows that the commercial hydroponics industry has grown four to five fold in the last 10 years, and is currently estimated at between 20,000 and 25,000 hectares with a farm gate value of US $6 to $8 billion.
Worldwide, there are a limited number of crops grown hydroponically. Tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, peppers, capsicum and cut flowers are the most important commercial crops. However other crops such as herbs and crops for pharmaceutical use are emerging.
Why Hydroponics?
Some of the benefits gained by growing a commercial crop hydroponically include the following:
Crop yields are usually slightly higher than those obtained in good soil used in the same environment;
Faster crop turnaround can give further increases in yield;
Water and fertiliser usage can be much lower than with most soil growing;
Wye College, Cucumbers grown in soilless media compared to soil/field crops:
http://www.icarda.org/aprp/PDF/PAinAP_WUE.pdf
Nutrients and water are applied more evenly to the plants, therefore
reducing wastage and providing a situation closer to the ideal growing
conditions.
Soilless cultivation has the capacity for increased yield. Improvement
in crop production could be more than 10-fold.
Tube culture techniques for the production of strawberries on raised benches
—an example of a closed system (Ottoria Research Station, Qatar)
The system can be automated to control and maintain the nutrient
levels in the solution.
One important difference between NFT and soil-grown crops is that in
NFT water and nutrients are brought to the roots as they are
continually bathed in the solution, whereas in the soil the roots must
grow through the soil to obtain water and nutrients.
Water-use efficiency can be at least doubled compared with soil-grown
plants, since water is only introduced into the system when it is lost
through the plant.
Allow precise monitoring and control over the nutrient solution which
minimizes water and fertilizer usage and maximizes production.
Solution concentration may be used to control growth, e.g. a highconductivity
nutrient solution stresses the plant reducing vegetative
growth.
The risks of disease spreading to the crops in NFT are relatively low.
The use of chemical insecticides and fungicides in solution is an
effective control measure.
In cucumber grown in NFT a small amount (<1%) of silica in the
solution gives good protection against powdery mildew.
Also, the Swedish National Food Administration’s recent research report finds no nutritional benefits of organic food.
The Consumers’ Association in its report in Which? magazine for May 2003 concludes that there is 'no consensus' on reports linking organic foods to health benefits.
There are literally thousands of these papers from all over the world, all stating that hydroponic production is better for yields, reduces water usage immensely, and because it uses so much less land, is much better for the environment. Do you really think they are all wrong and organics is just "misunderstood?"
People smarter than all of us seem to think hydroponics is the future. You can grow how you wish, but when you compare yields per acre of any hydro crop to any field grown crop, the traditional organic crop comes up short every time. Our gardens of weed are TINY gardens, so yeah you might get a couple ounces less in organics with a 2 light garden. but expand that to 500 acres, and the difference is significant.
Wikipedia for starters (if it's wrong, cite your sources and fix it!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics
The UK Food Safety Agency says: http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2003/jun/cheltenham
Now for the question 'Is organic food better for you?'
In our view the current scientific evidence does not show that organic food is any safer or more nutritious than conventionally produced food.
Nor are we alone in this assessment. For instance, the French Food Safety Agency (AFSSA) has recently published a comprehensive 128-page review which concludes that there is no difference in terms of food safety and nutrition.
Here is a research paper on several crops in Thailand being grown with better yields and success over traditional farming methods:
http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/english/publication/working/30/30-02-09.pdf
Qatar National Food Security Programme:
http://www.qnfsp.gov.qa/programme/agriculture/crop-production/hydroponics
One hectare of hydroponics farm can produce 200-300 tonnes of vegetables per year. This is five to 10 times more than the yield of any commercially grown crop in open field.
A study undertaken by the Australian Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation (RIRDC), shows that the commercial hydroponics industry has grown four to five fold in the last 10 years, and is currently estimated at between 20,000 and 25,000 hectares with a farm gate value of US $6 to $8 billion.
Worldwide, there are a limited number of crops grown hydroponically. Tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, peppers, capsicum and cut flowers are the most important commercial crops. However other crops such as herbs and crops for pharmaceutical use are emerging.
Why Hydroponics?
Some of the benefits gained by growing a commercial crop hydroponically include the following:
Crop yields are usually slightly higher than those obtained in good soil used in the same environment;
Faster crop turnaround can give further increases in yield;
Water and fertiliser usage can be much lower than with most soil growing;
Wye College, Cucumbers grown in soilless media compared to soil/field crops:
http://www.icarda.org/aprp/PDF/PAinAP_WUE.pdf
Nutrients and water are applied more evenly to the plants, therefore
reducing wastage and providing a situation closer to the ideal growing
conditions.
Soilless cultivation has the capacity for increased yield. Improvement
in crop production could be more than 10-fold.
Tube culture techniques for the production of strawberries on raised benches
—an example of a closed system (Ottoria Research Station, Qatar)
The system can be automated to control and maintain the nutrient
levels in the solution.
One important difference between NFT and soil-grown crops is that in
NFT water and nutrients are brought to the roots as they are
continually bathed in the solution, whereas in the soil the roots must
grow through the soil to obtain water and nutrients.
Water-use efficiency can be at least doubled compared with soil-grown
plants, since water is only introduced into the system when it is lost
through the plant.
Allow precise monitoring and control over the nutrient solution which
minimizes water and fertilizer usage and maximizes production.
Solution concentration may be used to control growth, e.g. a highconductivity
nutrient solution stresses the plant reducing vegetative
growth.
The risks of disease spreading to the crops in NFT are relatively low.
The use of chemical insecticides and fungicides in solution is an
effective control measure.
In cucumber grown in NFT a small amount (<1%) of silica in the
solution gives good protection against powdery mildew.
Also, the Swedish National Food Administration’s recent research report finds no nutritional benefits of organic food.
The Consumers’ Association in its report in Which? magazine for May 2003 concludes that there is 'no consensus' on reports linking organic foods to health benefits.
There are literally thousands of these papers from all over the world, all stating that hydroponic production is better for yields, reduces water usage immensely, and because it uses so much less land, is much better for the environment. Do you really think they are all wrong and organics is just "misunderstood?"
People smarter than all of us seem to think hydroponics is the future. You can grow how you wish, but when you compare yields per acre of any hydro crop to any field grown crop, the traditional organic crop comes up short every time. Our gardens of weed are TINY gardens, so yeah you might get a couple ounces less in organics with a 2 light garden. but expand that to 500 acres, and the difference is significant.
