Where would I see recessive traits in feminized line?

[africaseeds]

Perhaps this is a super obvious question, but where would I see recessive traits in a feminized line?

If I took one female plant and pollinated another with the pollen made from selfing the first pollen. If then worked that to S2 I would see recessive traits there right?

If I had an F1 regular seeds that I selected a nice female from and made feminised seeds using just the one type of clone and then worked that to S2 would I also see recessive traits in that S2? Or would that not be the case since the parents were basically S1 and P1?

 

[tetragrammaton]

Well in the past I was curious about the same thing, but I have since came to realize that in general feminized seeds are not the way to go with any sort of breeding, and in general are all fake bastards, literally, with no real parents. Just selfed clones. Then selfed clones crossed with other self closed, etc... to make feminized seeds is so easy thats why its everywhere and everythings all the same and stagnant and it really isn't breeding at all.

Most people and seed companies that call themselves breeders aren't breeders or know shit about botany, and I am guilty of growing feminized seeds in the past but never again. Yeah, it's convenient for the grower to have guaranteed females, and not have to deal with males, but that's what cloning is there in the first place for, so the patience of growing a mother plant, a true F1 or at least a true polyhybrid would be much better and you'd find endless variety and could perhaps come up with a new unique game changing strain.

The world needs more real breeders, I'm not one of them as I don't have the time, space, money, or legality to do so, but if that ever changes I'd be down to get my feet wet, but I leave it up to the real breeders who have proven themselves and there are quite a few out there, and quite a few on here, but I would encourage anyone interested in breeding to start making actual new strains and hybrids and learn how to breed properly so you can stabilize that recessive trait you're looking for.

It blows my mind now how so many seed companies just sell feminized seeds now. The fact that you said if you selected an F1 regular seed, yet talked about using the female as the mother in the cross with another female just blows my mind. Why would you grow a feminized seed to begin with if you have no issue growing out regular seed stock and using an actual male. I'm not homophobic by any means, but why not select a really nice male and create an actual strain, not bastard seeds that were artificially created by plants you forced into being lesbians?

I now understand why things were initially kept "clone only" and "elite clones" were a thing held tight amongst inner circles, but money talks, and now all of europe has all the cali strains. If I ever bred a killer strain, I'd for sure not release seeds because as soon as somebody gets ahold of it, they will just find a nice female, make S1s and sell it as my strain and it won't be the same.

It's time people realize that males aren't the enemy when it comes to making seeds and making new strains. In some of the most famous strains, the males were the key ingredient.

Now if you're doing it for your own personal use, then you can do whatever you want as it's your life, and I'm assuming it would be more convenient for you, but if you are a seed company, or plan to become one, then what you plan on doing is nothing new, nothing original, and at the end of the day, does nothing in regards to moving Cannabis forward.

 

[zif]

In an S1, 1/4 of the plants will show recessive traits that are masked by a dominant allele in the mother (I.e., Aa -> 1/4 AA, 1/2 Aa, 1/4aa). 100% will show recessive traits already in the mother.

In other words, this depends on the trait and the mother, but the latest you’ll see them is in the S1!

How will you know they’re recessive? 100% of the S2 plants from any S1 showing the trait will also show the trait. So you’ll know you have them, and in which plants, in the S2.

How many traits are controlled by a single locus in this classical Mendelian manner? Probably not as many as you’d like!

(ps - female pollen is like the nuclear power of the cannabis breeding world. Often, if not usually abused and/or dangerous, but with almost unlimited beneficial potential, if done right.)

 

[CodyPomeray]

Zif any books to check into to further my knowledge in this area? Appreciate the post brotha thanks.

 

[art.spliff]

Without going through a degree in biochemistry we aren't really sure what is happening when a chemical spray changes the, flowers, let us say chromosomes of the plants. The details may be worked out in the lab, there may be some papers with numbers to refer to. It seems to me an S1 may have recombination meaning heterogeneous progeny, a variety of recessive alleles and others, with only pistils and no pollen. No genetic difference, only chemical difference. Or the technique may matter. Or chemical treated seeds in this way without real pollen may be prone to erratic growth overall less desirable. The kind of plants growing from this chemical treatment may be good or ok as a preservation technique, a test or a sample. The same staple fact remains, producing more seed requires pollen. At some point you are going to have to get away from silver spray, in which case you have not been growing regular seed, or maybe regular seed with feminised plants to observe the progeny. It isn't really like a human correlation, but some obsessive people could grow ten children in a petri dish, who are clones, and they are also pro military and do not like certain people. Especially they are a one time purchase there is no free replacement like regular seeds and everything in nature. Quite a box of worms

 

[art.spliff]

Suppose I have a plant I want to select from for example super silver haze with a traditional Lebanese. Worthwhile to spray and 'self' the plant to look for more 'Lebanese' plants growing from those seeds? Moving 'backward?' Or use viable pollen from another plant, in lieu of a 'Lebanese' male, moving 'forward?' This may be jumping too much to a different subject but it is kind of like in vitro fertilization for women who have not had the chance to have children, or the population of incarcerated men compared to the population of underemployed women, instead of in vitro fertilization for boutique rich weirdos for lack of a better term. One person hasn't enough while the other clearly has too much, without referencing the actual subject.

 

[zif]

Zif any books to check into to further my knowledge in this area? Appreciate the post brotha thanks.

Carol Deppe’s “Breed your own vegetable varieties” is the best introduction that I know of. The main downside is you’ll come out of it wanting to breed lines of everything in your garden!

Allard’s “Principles of plant breeding” is a great follow up. There are two editions, with surprisingly little overlap. Both are worth a read.

 

[CodyPomeray]

Thanks brotha, appreciated, will check them out!

 

[HerbChambers]

If you selfed the plant....let’s say you reversed “big donk” and used that pollen to pollinate another “big donk” clone. You would see recessive phenos in the first generation.

If you reversed “big donk” and used that pollen on another plant that carries no recessives genes for that trait, let’s call her “stank shank”. You wouldn’t see recessives until the F2 generation.