Where do I top these plants? First grow

[growforme]

Hello -

I have 2 teens growing and have received advice from other growers that they should probably be topped before I switch them to flower (they are at least 3 weeks old now, I've had them 7 days today). They came to me with some nute burn, and they are on only a half dose of lucas formula for veg right now.

I am trying to figure out WHERE these things should be topped. This is my first grow and I really don't want to mess these up

Here are the plants, a full shot and a closer shot near the tops. Sorry I used my cell instead of my good camera - can post better pics if these aren't sufficient:

GCA #1:


top:


GCA #2:


top:


Would anyone be able to circle for me where these should be topped on the image and re-post here? I am really wary about doing this but want to make sure I get a decent yield. Thanks in advance for any advice!!

 

[St. Phatty]

Enough to stimulate branching - one of the purposes of cutting the growing tip.

Since the growing tip has a whole bunch of internodes bunched together, if there's a place on the stalk where there's a clear 1/4 inch to cut, and below that are bifoliate type branching structure (the regular kind), if you cut on that clear 1/4 inch, the tiny branches down below will become the main 2 buds in a month.

 

[growforme]

Enough to stimulate branching - one of the purposes of cutting the growing tip.

Since the growing tip has a whole bunch of internodes bunched together, if there's a place on the stalk where there's a clear 1/4 inch to cut, and below that are bifoliate type branching structure (the regular kind), if you cut on that clear 1/4 inch, the tiny branches down below will become the main 2 buds in a month.

Thanks Phatty! Very useful info, but just to confirm - when you say the "growing tip" you are referring to the very tip-top of the plants right?

So if I understand this correctly I want to find the first clear 1/4" area of stalk below that very top part of the plants and then cut there? Sorry for the newbie questions, I am sure this is routine for those who have done it a thousand times!

 

[chronosync]

Im not making a diagram but heres one idea: cut the tops off about 3 nodes down. Root those cuttings.

Where to top is up to you, if you just want it to branch more, cut at the top most internode. If you want the plants to be all branches, top lower down.

You could also snap stems 3/4 of the way up.

 

[growforme]

Thanks Chrono for the response!

Guys - what would happen if I didn't top them now? It looks like I have a few node spots on each, and am hoping they won't stretch too much under the 315W CMH bulb.

I can see where the original owner of these teens clipped other stems/leaves, and the tops of each plant already look like they have 2 or 3 flower sites, am I wrong?

I am not going for a huge yield (would be nice, but not for my first grow), and more have a goal of just MAKING it to harvest. Even if I harvested just a few dry ounces from these girls combined I would be happy. In all honesty for THIS grow, I would prefer an early harvest over a greater yield. - If this is the case, should I just switch them to flower today and see what happens without topping them?

I took a couple closer pics of both plants with my better camera so you can see the nodes and flower sites a little better:

GCA #1:





GCA #2:




Thanks for all the input in this thread already!

 

[St. Phatty]

Thanks Phatty! Very useful info, but just to confirm - when you say the "growing tip" you are referring to the very tip-top of the plants right?

So if I understand this correctly I want to find the first clear 1/4" area of stalk below that very top part of the plants and then cut there?

Yes.

It doesn't need to be super exact - if you ever grow outside with deer, they will do plenty of plant modifications, that might have the side effect of stimulating branching.

 

[Lester Beans]

Yes.

It doesn't need to be super exact - if you ever grow outside with deer, they will do plenty of plant modifications, that might have the side effect of stimulating branching.

This here is a wise outdoor grower lol!

Deer are exceptional pruners. The bastards lol

I vote for topping the plant three nodes down and rooting the tops as mentioned above. If you want to leave untopped, get some CFL's for side lighting.

Vibes

 

[ScroG Donker]

Another approach to promoting more bud sites, without slowing the growth of the plant nearly as much, would be Low stress training or LST.
Instead of topping the plant you can tie down the growth tips, and allow for more lateral growth.

 

[ScroG Donker]

Guys - what would happen if I didn't top them now? It looks like I have a few node spots on each, and am hoping they won't stretch too much under the 315W CMH bulb.

If you didnt top you would get 1 large top cola and smaller side nugs. If you did topp you would get 2 less large colas and more side nugs.

 

[growforme]

This here is a wise outdoor grower lol!

Deer are exceptional pruners. The bastards lol

I vote for topping the plant three nodes down and rooting the tops as mentioned above. If you want to leave untopped, get some CFL's for side lighting.

Vibes

Thanks Lester and phatty for the input. If I am looking GCA1 and GCA2 - where do you recommend I cut? I have labeled the points I am looking at just about two little yellow nodes for each red circle (see attached pics).

Also - how long after doing this should I wait to flower them?

I really hoping I'm not asking too much here, I tend to be very detailed Thanks again everyone for the help!!

 

[chronosync]

If you into vegging them for a little while and have unused horizontal space top them now and let it fill up. Feel free to bend some branches out to open the plant up creating more branches and bud sites.

This is how topping increases yield, by utilizing otherwise empty space.

 

[growforme]

Guys - what would happen if I didn't top them now? It looks like I have a few node spots on each, and am hoping they won't stretch too much under the 315W CMH bulb.

If you didnt top you would get 1 large top cola and smaller side nugs. If you did topp you would get 2 less large colas and more side nugs.

That is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks scrog!! I am assuming it has to do with the other leaves/branches blocking the lower flower sites?

 

[growforme]

If you into vegging them for a little while and have unused horizontal space top them now and let it fill up. Feel free to bend some branches out to open the plant up creating more branches and bud sites.

This is how topping increases yield, by utilizing otherwise empty space.[/QUOTE

Makes sense! I was sort of hoping to avoid that, and one of the things about the Cycloptics Greenbeams light I am using is the uniformity of light distribution. Supposedly this is supposed to help keep the plants from stretching as much and should allow more uniform growth. Other users with this same reflector have reported plants finishing early as well.

When I got these two teens they were already tall and skinny - most of the new growth has come in the last 6 days under this light. Prior to the that the grower who had them nute burned GCA#1 and looks like took a few trimmings from both the plants (I think they WOULD be bushier).

I am tempted to leave them alone, but am going to soak some rockwool cubes and prep them today in case I decide to top and save the cutting. I like the idea of cutting the tops off and rooting them, but don't actually plan to have a perpetual harvest at this point.

Thanks again for the advice. I have more background on my setup for this grow in my diary here if you want to stop by! https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=322115

 

[Collembola]

hello,

oh shit i wrote alod of shit in your grow diary;

on the picture (although i can not see below)

i would DEFINATELY choose #1 > you want 2 "companion" side branches to take over, ideally

i can not see another "companion" for location #2, and that will result in that branch becoming the main one, but weaker then the initial.

> but that's because they are clones and are ready to flower, things are alot more simple with seed, as they grow symetrically.

regards

 

[ScroG Donker]

That is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks scrog!! I am assuming it has to do with the other leaves/branches blocking the lower flower sites?

It actually has to do with the hormone Auxin.
Here is a copy and Paste from an old thread.

Most of all, auxins, in marijuana plants, are known for producing adventitious buds along the stem and in the roots. Adventitious is sort of like it sounds: it's the "adventurous" part of the plant that sprouts when the plant is wounded or trained.

With LST, it is not as simple as: "Make more auxins. Plant grow big."

So why did we learn about auxins if we're not going to be making more of them? I mean, more is good when it comes to marijuana right?!

Well: no, not in this case. This part is important so pay attention: auxins are most concentrated (and synthesized) at the apical bud or the tip of the plant closest to the light. The rest of the plant has the ability to produce auxins, but the cells must be triggered to do so. Now, although auxins are hormones essential for many facets of growth, it is also an inhibiting hormone for the other buds further down the stem. This is to prevent the plant from producing buds which may compete with the apical bud.

In other words:
The plant is very happy having one bud that it tries to stretch as close as possible to its source of energy. It will do what it can to inhibit other sprouts below it from becoming that bud as it would require the plant to push those sprouts up to that level again.

If you are still a bit confused, think of images of trees and picture the growth that they have in a cone-shaped fashion. They are working to push the apical bud up to the sky.

Now that you understand what auxins are and how they are important for growth in marijuana, you can begin to understand how LST works.

How LST Works
This is where I get to those people who were saying "Topping and LST aren't even close. You're full of crap."

When you top a plant, you are removing the apical bud (the bud closest to the light) where most of the auxin is concentrated and synthesized. The plant stresses itself out (high stress training) and eventually produces new sprouts along the stem that will form new growth so that it can get a new apical bud and send it soaring towards the heavens.

LST is helping to stimulate that growth near the bottom but by tricking the plant instead of chopping it. In nature, if something happens to a plant and the bud that is closest to the light gets blocked, it will try to move around that something. If it can't, then eventually new growth will form lower along the stem to try and send a new shoot out to head towards the light.

When you LST, the reason that you are tying the tip of the plant down is so that the plant gets confused. It is used to producing the auxins in the tip of the plant close to the light. However, because the tip of the plant is pulled down to such a degree, it is not receiving light at the very tip like it used to so it sends the auxins down the stem to produce new sprouts to become new apical buds (or so the plant hopes).

This is why some people continue training as the plant gets older, but like to start when the plant is new as auxin development starts with roots and continues through all stages of the plant. Continued training of the plant is helpful because, as you can imagine, each apical tip can be brought down to promote new growth further down the stem. Every time you bring the tip down, the plant will be fooled. As new tips of the plant are reaching towards the light, pulling them back down below 90 degrees (or close to it) will make those auxins start to flow again. This can continue on and on.

Now that you know how LST works, you don't even need a picture to look at. You just know that you need to trick the plant into thinking it's highest tip is no longer its highest tip. It's as simple as that, but it is also as complex as you want it to be.