When to topdress?

[DuskrayTroubador]

Howdy all,

I've got some pygmy goat poo that's been sitting that I'm going to use as a topdress for my plants to feed them during veg. I'm wondering about when to put it down, though.

My worry is that if I do it too soon, the rain will have washed it into the soil and then away altogether by the time the plant's roots are extensive enough to really make use of it.

The other end is that if I wait too long, young seedlings won't have food when they need it

Should I just topdress with the goat poo right after I put my germinated seeds in their holes?

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Seedlings don't need nutrients. In fact they can be burned by concentrations that they'd literally eat for breakfast when they're bigger. Just give them some very dilute 'koolaid' when they're a few inches tall (couple weeks, NOT now) and save the good stuff (PGP) for when they're around 1-2 feet tall.

 

[therevverend]

I agree with Greengenes much too early.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Thanks, guys.

I asked because I saw an experiment on here where someone fed nutrients to freshly sprouted tiny little seedlings and they responded well: didn't burn, and grew at a much faster pace than the control group.

So far I've been feeding them a coconut water solution, but that's it. I'm going to wait a while before I topdress with the goat manure.

 

[CrushnYuba]

I think it depends how much you are trying to use.. But i would put it in before i plant and mix it in. If the poo is even somewhat aged, you can use allot. Just throw it in the hole and mix it up.

I regularly plant a tiny clone or seedling into a soil mix that the BASE was 30% cow manure and still put allot of amendments in. They just took off.

Similarly, i frequently use a mix on starts that i added 40lbs of chicken manure per yard to.

Goat poo has more nutrient then cow, but not even close to chicken.
I would be trying to mix it in. If you can't, just plant and then top dress it on asap.

 

[40degsouth]

Hey everyone!!,
Ruminant manure has very little nutritional value and is more of a soil conditioner given that all the goodies have been taken out in the four stomachs in the digestive tract. The only purviso to this being if it's been soaked in urine in say a stable???
I've used this manure very successfully both fresh and old, mixing it in or top dressing.
It makes a fantastic mulch that keeps the soil cool while alowing water through and providing habitat for beneficials.
Something I've been doing in the last few years is soaking it in an act, drying it out again and then carrying it into the patch. It acts like a slow release fertiliser depending on what inputs go in at the start.
Because of the shape (turd is the proper English) there is very little contact with the soil, when top dressed in early spring it's done its job by late summer and been incorporated into the soil slowly by worms and the like.
I've never burnt a plant with this manure but to be sure, keep it a foot away from the base of your seedlings and let the roots grow into it.
Hope this helps,
Cheers, 40.

 

[40degsouth]

Sorry for the double but l meant to add also, that you should be careful of fresh manures if the animals have been recently wormed; it has the potential to kill earth worms as well. Soaking also helps with this if you're unsure.
40

 

[troutman]

In good soil, I don't feed seedlings until they get their 3rd set of real leaves.

 

[Treevly]

The best success I've had with natural fertilizer is with composted goldfish manure.

 

[Bush Doctah]

Hey Duskray.
I'm a newb to canna growing, but have a couple years of growing organically under my belt.
I've had tremendous success with applying dynamic accumulators in top dresses. If you have them available to you, and I understand that this is not always the case, but comfrey, stinging nettle, horsetail, dandelions, lambs quarters, plantain, and yarrow have all worked extremely well for me.
I just chop them up, mix them in with compost, manure, leaf mold, or limed peat (least success with this because it can dry out to a hard pan-like crust), add whatever goodies I think they might need, and apply. They seem to work best when fresh, but I have used them when dried too. Leaf mold is fantastic because it stays moist a long time and seems to seal in moisture in the soil underneath.
Hope this is of use.
BD

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Hey Duskray.
I'm a newb to canna growing, but have a couple years of growing organically under my belt.
I've had tremendous success with applying dynamic accumulators in top dresses. If you have them available to you, and I understand that this is not always the case, but comfrey, stinging nettle, horsetail, dandelions, lambs quarters, plantain, and yarrow have all worked extremely well for me.
I just chop them up, mix them in with compost, manure, leaf mold, or limed peat (least success with this because it can dry out to a hard pan-like crust), add whatever goodies I think they might need, and apply. They seem to work best when fresh, but I have used them when dried too. Leaf mold is fantastic because it stays moist a long time and seems to seal in moisture in the soil underneath.
Hope this is of use.
BD

So you just mix, say, fresh horsetail in with the compost?

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

Hey guys:

I've got two more questions:

1) I took a shovel full of goat manure out of the top of one of the bags and it had at least a hundred tiny little bugs crawling all through it. Maybe hundreds. Are these cause for concern? Can I still use it or will they attack my plants?

2) How far away from the base of the plant are you supposed to topdress? I have some rabbit poo that I put down today near a couple of my plants. (Maybe a fourth of a shovel full right near them, not much at all) Maybe only 2 inches or so from the base, but I only topdressed on one side just in case (so there's nothing on one side of the plants)

 

[CrushnYuba]

I can't say anything about the bugs without knowing what kind. They are probably ok but maybe not.

You don't want to top dress to close to the stalk. The concern is with stem/ root rot. You don't want manure on your stem. It will also depend how deep you planted. When planting outdoor you want the plant raised up a bit so the "crown" of your roots are exposed.

Be careful top dressing manures. It can cake, attract bugs and get really gross. Really only the strongest manures like guanos should be top dressed. You don't have to use allot. You can top dress strong chicken, but you have to mix it with some potting soil so it doesn't clump.

Cow, horse, etc is too weak to top dress. It's more of a grow medium. It should be mixed in before you plant. Rabbit is a little weaker then chicken i believe. I think you will need quite a bit to feed your plants.

 

[DuskrayTroubador]

I can't say anything about the bugs without knowing what kind. They are probably ok but maybe not.

You don't want to top dress to close to the stalk. The concern is with stem/ root rot. You don't want manure on your stem. It will also depend how deep you planted. When planting outdoor you want the plant raised up a bit so the "crown" of your roots are exposed.

Be careful top dressing manures. It can cake, attract bugs and get really gross. Really only the strongest manures like guanos should be top dressed. You don't have to use allot. You can top dress strong chicken, but you have to mix it with some potting soil so it doesn't clump.

Cow, horse, etc is too weak to top dress. It's more of a grow medium. It should be mixed in before you plant. Rabbit is a little weaker then chicken i believe. I think you will need quite a bit to feed your plants.

Thanks for the warnings. I've been keeping it away from the stalk and the rabbit poo I'm using is a very nice, soft consistency. It doesn't climb easily, but I also make a point to break up any little clumps.

How long does it generally take a topdress to start actually feeding the plant? I know it depends on rain, but I live in a fairly rainy climate. Two weeks?

 

[YukonKronic]

Hey everyone!!,
Ruminant manure has very little nutritional value and is more of a soil conditioner given that all the goodies have been taken out in the four stomachs in the digestive tract. The only purviso to this being if it's been soaked in urine in say a stable???
I've used this manure very successfully both fresh and old, mixing it in or top dressing.
It makes a fantastic mulch that keeps the soil cool while alowing water through and providing habitat for beneficials.
Something I've been doing in the last few years is soaking it in an act, drying it out again and then carrying it into the patch. It acts like a slow release fertiliser depending on what inputs go in at the start.
Because of the shape (turd is the proper English) there is very little contact with the soil, when top dressed in early spring it's done its job by late summer and been incorporated into the soil slowly by worms and the like.
I've never burnt a plant with this manure but to be sure, keep it a foot away from the base of your seedlings and let the roots grow into it.
Hope this helps,
Cheers, 40.

It’s a good idea to let cow and horse manure sit in rain for a while to leach. Ever see a salt lick block? Giant salt cube you leave in the field for cows horses etc to get their salt intake from... they eat chunks off it. I don’t like the sodiums in my weedy puffs.

 

[YukonKronic]

Other than the salt it’s kickass shit... I have like 20% aged horse manure as part of my greenhouse mix.. it’s going great.