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What's wrong with my clones?
- Thread starter clowntown
- Start date
G
Guest
did you really clean the medium that you reused?
What do you mean by clean?
Most of the donor plants were fairly freshly transplanted into 2 gallon pots, from 5" square pots. Most of the medium that was used was from the 2 gallon pots, which didn't really have much roots in it at all... mostly some clumps at the bottom of the pots which I removed. I flushed the medium hard with 5.8'd water several times, maybe 5-6x, maybe up to 10x. I didn't "hand-wash" or otherwise agitate the medium to clean it, though, just poured a lot of water through the tops of the pots.
Do you think it's medium-related? If so, in what way? Old levels of nutes stored? Or...
Most of the donor plants were fairly freshly transplanted into 2 gallon pots, from 5" square pots. Most of the medium that was used was from the 2 gallon pots, which didn't really have much roots in it at all... mostly some clumps at the bottom of the pots which I removed. I flushed the medium hard with 5.8'd water several times, maybe 5-6x, maybe up to 10x. I didn't "hand-wash" or otherwise agitate the medium to clean it, though, just poured a lot of water through the tops of the pots.
Do you think it's medium-related? If so, in what way? Old levels of nutes stored? Or...
CrunchNasty
Member
i got the same thing goingon, i think its the shock of moving them to that light, i moved mine under a 1000 when they were in coco, and they started yellowing from the upper leaves on the inner top to the outside, the growth is exrememly slow and weird
is that whats going on>? mine took exactly 4 days untill i started stressing too
is that whats going on>? mine took exactly 4 days untill i started stressing too
scegy
Active member
hey clown
Nutes: While under CFLs (24/0), I started out feeding them (per L):
CFLs are not so intensive, so the plants need far less nutes then under HID
1 mL Canna Coco A, 1 mL Canna Coco B
4 mL Rhizotonic
4 mL Liquid Karma
0.5 mL Silica Blast
0.5 mL CalMag+
that's quite a lot of organic shit to add, i use AT MOST 3 ml/L, and rhizotonic is potent shit to add every feeding
i'd say you lay off the rhizotonic and LK, if you read the instructions on the rhizo, you'll see that they say you should feed only ONCE with it,
-on the start of cloning
- transplant time
i did the same thing once as u'r doing, i ended up killing all of them, use only canna coco(i think they should have some Mg and Cal in it already) from the start, and apply rhizo at the start only
feed once a week, but for now only ph-ed water, if u'll add more shit, you will know less and less where you are, so let them first use what you already gave em, or maybe a FLUSH would be in order if things happen as fast as they do in hydro
burned tips mean too much(water or nutes), so maybe you should also let them suck the water to the point that they start wilting, i have a decorative plant in coco and i water it every 2-3 days before it starts wilting
the best proof you can get is to feel the coco under the pots if you can put ur finger in it, and if it's still moist, wait some more before you water
good luck man, be wise with the nutes, less is better that is a fact
Nutes: While under CFLs (24/0), I started out feeding them (per L):
CFLs are not so intensive, so the plants need far less nutes then under HID
1 mL Canna Coco A, 1 mL Canna Coco B
4 mL Rhizotonic
4 mL Liquid Karma
0.5 mL Silica Blast
0.5 mL CalMag+
that's quite a lot of organic shit to add, i use AT MOST 3 ml/L, and rhizotonic is potent shit to add every feeding
i'd say you lay off the rhizotonic and LK, if you read the instructions on the rhizo, you'll see that they say you should feed only ONCE with it,
-on the start of cloning
- transplant time
i did the same thing once as u'r doing, i ended up killing all of them, use only canna coco(i think they should have some Mg and Cal in it already) from the start, and apply rhizo at the start only
feed once a week, but for now only ph-ed water, if u'll add more shit, you will know less and less where you are, so let them first use what you already gave em, or maybe a FLUSH would be in order if things happen as fast as they do in hydro
burned tips mean too much(water or nutes), so maybe you should also let them suck the water to the point that they start wilting, i have a decorative plant in coco and i water it every 2-3 days before it starts wilting
the best proof you can get is to feel the coco under the pots if you can put ur finger in it, and if it's still moist, wait some more before you water
good luck man, be wise with the nutes, less is better that is a fact
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Ok, here's the thing though... besides all that about what the bottle says (and I don't know where you're getting your bottles, 'cuz mine is a complete opposite of that message you quote)... is that I fed them the exact same thing on the previous generation and they were fine.
And I've used Rhizotonic and Liquid Karma on other grows, too, with no problems at those doses and frequencies.
And I've used Rhizotonic and Liquid Karma on other grows, too, with no problems at those doses and frequencies.
G
Guest
did you flush the coco good before you planted them? canna comes ready to go but there may be accumulations from the last grow if it's reused
the rootzone needs oxygen, let em suck up some of that moisture, they'll perk up.
^ give them 4 hours darkness every day and give a foliar feed (pbp bloom works great) while letting them dry out
when you do water them you'll have much greater success in coco if you water down your nutes and feed every time you water.....also, kelp meal, worm castings, guanos, all work great in coco as they do in soil mixes, and they can really benefit a transplant....its hard sometimes to give these little clones exactly what they need from each bottle of nutes
hope this helps a little, once the rootzone is happy, watch out! they'll be growing like weeds!!!
the rootzone needs oxygen, let em suck up some of that moisture, they'll perk up.
^ give them 4 hours darkness every day and give a foliar feed (pbp bloom works great) while letting them dry out
when you do water them you'll have much greater success in coco if you water down your nutes and feed every time you water.....also, kelp meal, worm castings, guanos, all work great in coco as they do in soil mixes, and they can really benefit a transplant....its hard sometimes to give these little clones exactly what they need from each bottle of nutes
hope this helps a little, once the rootzone is happy, watch out! they'll be growing like weeds!!!
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scegy: Ok, here's the thing though... besides all that about what the bottle says (mine is a complete opposite of that message you quote though)... is that I fed them the exact same thing on the previous generation and they were fine.
And I've used Rhizotonic and Liquid Karma on other grows, too, with no problems at those doses and frequencies.
outkastt: But I think it's different in coco. I've TRIED to over-water some plants before, but I never could. And I read later that in coco plants don't tend to show over-watering the way they do in soil and hydro.
Not sure if you read but I'm letting the pots get very light, and watering only when really necessary. That's what's confusing me.
User Name: Thanks I will try the 20/4. I also moved the light a few inches higher, as they seemed to be a bit yellow on the new growth.
And I've used Rhizotonic and Liquid Karma on other grows, too, with no problems at those doses and frequencies.
outkastt: But I think it's different in coco. I've TRIED to over-water some plants before, but I never could. And I read later that in coco plants don't tend to show over-watering the way they do in soil and hydro.
Not sure if you read but I'm letting the pots get very light, and watering only when really necessary. That's what's confusing me.
User Name: Thanks I will try the 20/4. I also moved the light a few inches higher, as they seemed to be a bit yellow on the new growth.
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Personally I would add the CalMag to your mix when you start feeding again. Start with 2ml/gallon. You can always add more.
Over watering can cause the leaves to curl as can too much nitrogen. What is the PPM/EC of the mix you're feeding?
Over watering can cause the leaves to curl as can too much nitrogen. What is the PPM/EC of the mix you're feeding?
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scegy
Active member
hmm maybe the problem is trully in the medium, i've learned that peat lowers it's pH the more it is decomposed and washed, that's why white peat is better for growing as it is less decomposed
adding or treating your medium with lime would do the trick maybe? or adding enough cal-mag...don't know about coco man but something about what we'r talking about isn't right else we wouldn't be talkin'
maybe in time coco becomes deformed and it doesn't let the water drain quick enough, structure collison?
adding or treating your medium with lime would do the trick maybe? or adding enough cal-mag...don't know about coco man but something about what we'r talking about isn't right else we wouldn't be talkin'
maybe in time coco becomes deformed and it doesn't let the water drain quick enough, structure collison?
EC of nute solution is 1.3 - 1.4 after adding pH down, and now 2.5 mL / L of CannaZym and 0.5 mL / L of CalMag+ (that's roughly 2 mL / gal). Starting EC of the tap water is approx. 0.06.
Re: flushing... I've been watering them with something like 200%+ runoff, so I'm really not sure it's the medium. I'd also rather not take some random wild guesses in the dark about coco doing this and that, because the way I understand it coco is easily reusable with minimal preparation. Just a good pH'd flush (phlush? hehe)/ rinse, and should be ready to go... right?
Re: flushing... I've been watering them with something like 200%+ runoff, so I'm really not sure it's the medium. I'd also rather not take some random wild guesses in the dark about coco doing this and that, because the way I understand it coco is easily reusable with minimal preparation. Just a good pH'd flush (phlush? hehe)/ rinse, and should be ready to go... right?
G
Guest
not if roots roted in the medium...hydrogen peroxide would fix that...but not just water...when you transplanted in that medium you left some roots behind im sure...in my opinion its fine to reuse any medium as long as you sterilize it..peace
somethin ta think about
somethin ta think about
I read a thread here while back that had pics of plants that look a whole lot like what yers does now.A person whom I have alot of respect for seem ta think if ya don't keep coco consistantly moist it will show signs of micronute def. alot like what yuv got goin on.As a matter of fact this is the second time I heard this from folks that would know.You could try bootin one up to a bigger pot,one that doesn't dry out so fast and see fersure if that's it er not.Another sugestion,go through yer nutes and make sure none have went bad on ya.Yul know by smellin em if they've went annarobic (sp)/bad.Well man I hope this has helped and not jus added to the confusion.lol Good luck and take care...BC ps check yer pm's
somethin ta think about
I read a thread here while back that had pics of plants that look a whole lot like what yers does now.A person whom I have alot of respect for seem ta think if ya don't keep coco consistantly moist it will show signs of micronute def. alot like what yuv got goin on.As a matter of fact this is the second time I heard this from folks that would know.You could try bootin one up to a bigger pot,one that doesn't dry out so fast and see fersure if that's it er not.Another sugestion,go through yer nutes and make sure none have went bad on ya.Yul know by smellin em if they've went annarobic (sp)/bad.Well man I hope this has helped and not jus added to the confusion.lol Good luck and take care...BC ps check yer pm's
scegy
Active member
brainthor has a point there, you surely didn't 100% clean the coco of roots because you can't, so maybe there are some rotting processes doing this to your roots-smell as the man said
btw i had simmilar problems using used soil..sorry man wish i could help....maybe a test would do you good, if you have some fresh coco and a fresh clone, put it in and u'll have a comparison and u'll find out if it's the medium's fault..hm?
good luck man
btw i had simmilar problems using used soil..sorry man wish i could help....maybe a test would do you good, if you have some fresh coco and a fresh clone, put it in and u'll have a comparison and u'll find out if it's the medium's fault..hm?
good luck man
they do have that overwatered and nuted look, As Outkasst has said. Ive done it so, But now reading some of the many, other opinions made me say hmmm as to re using soil.... Cos ive also done that and, know i didnt clean out all roots.. did ya check stich's thread in the infirmary? It covers most every thing you can think of.. good luck.. peace..
sack
sack
G
Guest
edit
I would leave out the silica blast too.. actually I would leave out everything but the A+B..
since they are small ya don't really need to keep the coco saturated.. unless you plan on doing a drip setup with multiple waterings a day, then it might be a good idea to let them get used to the multiple waterings.. otherwise let them dry up..
but.. if you stunted the plants with the additives, then the roots probably aren't too happy either, which makes it even more difficult for the plant.. sad roots+water logged coco = bad plants
I would leave out the silica blast too.. actually I would leave out everything but the A+B..
since they are small ya don't really need to keep the coco saturated.. unless you plan on doing a drip setup with multiple waterings a day, then it might be a good idea to let them get used to the multiple waterings.. otherwise let them dry up..
but.. if you stunted the plants with the additives, then the roots probably aren't too happy either, which makes it even more difficult for the plant.. sad roots+water logged coco = bad plants
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Nope. Exact same genetics (clones) as previous. Similar root mass and plant size, too. Exact same feed. Exact same lights.
All stated before, but:
This is what they're looking like 5 minutes ago. Still on 24/0; don't have a reliable timer yet.
On that last picture, (left to right, top to bottom) plants 1, 2 and 5 are soil.
All stated before, but:
- No, I'm not re-using soil. The COCO was pre-treated with CannaZym prior to re-use and there were very little roots in it from the previous run even prior to CannaZym use.
- The medium has already been flushed many, many times.
- It's 1.5 mL per L
This is what they're looking like 5 minutes ago. Still on 24/0; don't have a reliable timer yet.
On that last picture, (left to right, top to bottom) plants 1, 2 and 5 are soil.
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G
Guest
dude somethings up with your roots or you are over watering in my humble opinion...have you let your medium dry out?
From the original post:
Again: I've watered like, 5-6x more than this on the donor plants and it was fine.
If you haven't grown in coco, please let's not go with this "it's over-watered" wild goose chase or any other random theory with no basis. (Not saying that this is the case with you brainthor, just the many other random suggestions that some seem to be pulling out of thin air and telling me to try, ...)
clowntown said:
Again: I've watered like, 5-6x more than this on the donor plants and it was fine.
If you haven't grown in coco, please let's not go with this "it's over-watered" wild goose chase or any other random theory with no basis. (Not saying that this is the case with you brainthor, just the many other random suggestions that some seem to be pulling out of thin air and telling me to try, ...)
