Whats this deficiency?

[Sinsemillian]

My ph is 5.9 and ppm is 690. I bumped my ppm up from 400 to 760 yesterday. noticed on one of the plants brownish blotches and I am wondering what def it is. I am thinking maybe early calcium def but I am not quit sure I as I have never had a calcium def b4. This is my first hydro grow. If it is a calcium def then how would I fix the problem? All these plants are clones from the same mum if that helps. Thanks in advance boyz!!

 

[Americangrower]

I'm a soil guy but that look like Nitrogen def to me.. She should be much greener.. just my thoughts... good luck.

 

[Sinsemillian]

Yeah well its got me stumped. I never had this problem in soil so I am lost. My rez is 69F all seems to be in check so I not sure on this but am panicing trying to figure this out. Thanks for the help americangrower!!

I'm a soil guy but that look like Nitrogen def to me.. She should be much greener.. just my thoughts... good luck.

 

[TokeD]

i'd say your ppm maybe is a little to high I don't seem it nessesary to adjust nutes in the veg cycle just adjust to the problems they have which is lacking of, try to lower it, remix your nutes and put the old ones to the side to settle for a bit they arn't completley useless. looks like your lacking a little nitro and maybe you have to much nute action not enough addative

 

[Guest]

what kinda nutes are ya feeding them?

 

[Sinsemillian]

Well thanks for the help TokeD. My nutes are mixed in a 50 Gallon rez. I am growing in 15 multiflkow buckets. Here is a link to my first thread in the infirmary here http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=50916&page=1 I just turned the 1000W mh off and put 4 foot flouros over them. I foliar feed them some advanced nutrients Revive in hopes that it was a minor mag def. These clones are only just rooted into 4 " rockwool cubes 3 days ago. It was suggested to me to raise my PPM as the plants looked under feed. Not quit sure this is my first hydro grow and its been a pain so far. With the help of all you guys I feel positive that things will go better soon enuff.

i'd say your ppm maybe is a little to high I don't seem it nessesary to adjust nutes in the veg cycle just adjust to the problems they have which is lacking of, try to lower it, remix your nutes and put the old ones to the side to settle for a bit they arn't completley useless. looks like your lacking a little nitro and maybe you have to much nute action not enough addative

 

[Sinsemillian]

I am feeding them Advanced Nutrients M,G,B. I added 100 Ml of fulvic acid to the 50 gallon rez as well. ppm is 620.

 

[powdergreen]

what is the conversion factor of your ppm meter?

 

[powdergreen]

Also how much (ml) of each (g,m,b) are you giving them, and are you giving any other additives. What abut your RH and temps? Low Rh can cause a K hard to uptake.

 

[Sinsemillian]

M-5ml G-10ml B-3ml per gallon. I think bumping my ppm up to 800 was not a good idea at all. I drained half my rez out and now the ppm is 400 and adjusted the ph to 5.9 RH is 55% and temps are 68F in the room 78F top of the buckets. I never added anything else besides 100ml of fulvic acid in the 50 gallon rez.

Also how much (ml) of each (g,m,b) are you giving them, and are you giving any other additives. What abut your RH and temps? Low Rh can cause a K hard to uptake.

 

[Mo Budz]

Are you adding the Micro first, then the other nutes? If not that could be your problem. It also looks to be a little waterlogged by the crinkling of the leaves. But could also be due to a nutrient disorder. How often are they getting watered?

 

[bergerbuddy]

You said you turned off the HID and put floras over theM?? if so good, if not raise your lite a bit... say 3feet above tops... redue your solution.. are u using a RO ? if not what are your PPM b4 adding nute? You could have hard water..

At the stage these plants are... its hard to imagine a cal/mag def.. yet that is similar to what it looks like.. age ain this type of burn on the plants could also be indicitive of nute burn.. perhaps for the size of root mass etc.. that is why if you NOT using RO U need to invest in one.. IF your gonna go hydro in my experience this is a MUST..

I would lower the stress your putting on the plants by lowering the light intensity till the plants start to green then gradually intensify the light again..

TO help them green I would invest in a good "root enhancer" I find canna RIZHOTONIC to be awsome... at this stage I would add 16oz of it into your 50gal rez, along with your GMB at the numbers you mentioned 10-5-3 is a good ratio. also get a product like AN sensisyme or Canna Canazyme add I think 38 oz of sensizyme to 50gal or if cannazyme add 160z. I think the fulvic acid at 100ml to 50 gal is fine at this stage too...
If your tap water is not to high in PPM or if you start using RO water and do whats described above.. I would expect you to be back on track in 5-7 days..

GOod LUck
BB

P.S. what mobudz pointed out IS important.. AN says their nutes can LOCK if not combined properly.. part of this is agitating in the Micro first really well before adding ANY THING ELSE in the mix..
Just my own experience with AN is.. there products are AWSOME when in the condition AN intends.. however if they go bad... AND THEY DO.. AN sucks.. thats why I don't use AN anymore, had problems with there products seperating out in the containers...

 

[Sinsemillian]

Mo budz and bergerbuddy yes I am adding the micro first. The lowest my ph has been was 5.9 so I did a total flush with ph adjusted water at 5.5. You think calcium was locked out? When they were rooting on a heated seedling mat under 64 w floros I had feed them with 5.5 1/4 strength veg mix and they looked fine. I am using tap water from town which has a ppm of 100. Actually come to think of it to up my strength last night to 800 I added more MGB to the already 400PPM mixed rez. AN i never had a problem with b4 but in hydro I think maybe its the problem. Right now its straight 5.5 100 PPM tap water. I will invest in the products you have suggested. I have 2 quarts of hydroguard coming in the mail and it should be here in 4-5 days I hope. I do have a R/O 5 stage filter with a reservoir but it would take a day to fill the rez up. lol Is 100 PPM hard water? After this grow I plan on switching nutes. Do you have any suggestions? I been reading about PBP and think maybe an organic switch may be in my future. All you guys help is appreciated so keep it comming!!

Regards,
Sinse.

You said you turned off the HID and put floras over theM?? if so good, if not raise your lite a bit... say 3feet above tops... redue your solution.. are u using a RO ? if not what are your PPM b4 adding nute? You could have hard water..

At the stage these plants are... its hard to imagine a cal/mag def.. yet that is similar to what it looks like.. age ain this type of burn on the plants could also be indicitive of nute burn.. perhaps for the size of root mass etc.. that is why if you NOT using RO U need to invest in one.. IF your gonna go hydro in my experience this is a MUST..

I would lower the stress your putting on the plants by lowering the light intensity till the plants start to green then gradually intensify the light again..

TO help them green I would invest in a good "root enhancer" I find canna RIZHOTONIC to be awsome... at this stage I would add 16oz of it into your 50gal rez, along with your GMB at the numbers you mentioned 10-5-3 is a good ratio. also get a product like AN sensisyme or Canna Canazyme add I think 38 oz of sensizyme to 50gal or if cannazyme add 160z. I think the fulvic acid at 100ml to 50 gal is fine at this stage too...
If your tap water is not to high in PPM or if you start using RO water and do whats described above.. I would expect you to be back on track in 5-7 days..

GOod LUck
BB

P.S. what mobudz pointed out IS important.. AN says their nutes can LOCK if not combined properly.. part of this is agitating in the Micro first really well before adding ANY THING ELSE in the mix..
Just my own experience with AN is.. there products are AWSOME when in the condition AN intends.. however if they go bad... AND THEY DO.. AN sucks.. thats why I don't use AN anymore, had problems with there products seperating out in the containers...

 

[bergerbuddy]

The Hydro guard is good stuff and will help keep your water conditioned..
100PPM is pretty darn good water actually.. And shouldn't present you problems... that being said, if you have an RO... hook it up!! use it next time..... when in hydro the big advantage is COMPLETE CONTROL.... take it!!
PBP is good good stuff.... I used it in conjunction with a 3 part GH for years in sunshine mix... worked excellent.... I have never used it as a primary in HYDRO... I have used AN and CANNA.. Canna Aqua, works well in hydro..
Whatever you get, GET canna RIZO!! it IS expensive but one of the FEW products out there worth every penny... If ya had RIZO right now I would just add that and 1/2 strength... that would bring them out..
Your lowering the PH was excatly the right thing to do... the micros need the lower PH to be uptakin by the plants..
Yeah that pic sure looked like a mag prob... only thing its strange in my experience to see MAG def on that YOUNG of plants... but certainly not impossible..

Once you get some decent roots on those babies, and start seeing some normal healthy new growth, I would start gradually increasing the PPM's every 24-36 hours till back to normal PPM.. remember not to use the same res for over 7-10 days... it can get kinda iffy just adding more nutes to existing rez... but with 50gals I doubt you want to be dumping all that every couple dayz till things are back up to snuf..
Remember to keep the lights up while getting them to "revive".... also foliar application can't go wrong, as long as your not to strong on the nutes.. remeber to PH that stuff to0.. 6.0
Sensiman sounds like you got a good grasp as to whats going on and fixing it....
Keep us informed..\
Peace

 

[Sinsemillian]

Thanks for the reply bergerbuddy. I figured 100 PPM tap water was pretty good. I adjusted the rez last night to ph 5.5 and have not flooded at all. I poured 500 ml of this through the tops of each rockwool cube and I guess will wait a few days to allow it to dry out and see how it goes. I am not going to flood at all during the next few days. The ph has now risen from 5.5 to 6.1 in the rez. It seems no matter how much ph adjusting i do it ends up at 6.1. I have not flooded at all so I figure my tap water has a large buffering capability. I soaked them with revive @ the recommended 30ml per litre while they were under floros. And like I said in the 5 days they have been in the buckets the ph was never below 5.8 so maybe Calcium was locked out. I never had this problem in soil ever but hydro has thus far showed to be a completely different animal and problems come 100 times faster in it I have found out. So 1 question I have when mixing up a fresh batch of nutes do I adjust to 5.5 and let it drift up to 6? Can you add to much ph down to often? How often should the ph be adjusted? Could you give me some examples please as I want to make sure for this not to happen again in the future and I am unsure of the ph adjustments in hydro.

 

[bergerbuddy]

High Sinsemillian,
Ok first it does seem wierd to me that your plants would be showing cal/mag problems so young... my expience has always been these def. show up in early bud... say 3 wks in.. sometimes earlier... So I think its something to do with the plants not liking something you gave them... as opposed to growing WITHOUT something... see what I mean??
How are they doing?? is the new growth looking better?
As for PH... 5.8-6.2 is all good.... higher PH in veg is usually not a problem so if your running 6.1 thats GOOD... I wouldn't adjust down untill PH hits 6.3-6.4 then i would drop it down to 5.6-5.7 hoping it will drift back up..
Now it is important to give your nutes a chance to "self adjust" after mixing... i.e. sometimes after mixing you can get a good reading of say 5.8 but then if you check it again in say 1/2 hr. its gone up.... so make sure the nute tank is reading the SAME PH 1/2 hr apart... Then the tank has "settled" or adjusted.... now give it to the plants...
It is a GOOD THING when your PH drifts UP after feeding the plants, this indicates that the plants are using whats in the mix.
Until things get back on track... keep it simple... just your ABC and some water conditioner (hydro guard) maybe an enzyme like sensisyme or canazyme. and a root enhancer like RIZOTONIC... can't emphazie how good this stuff is..
as for PH DOWN... your much better off adding DOWN than up.... up is bad shit (sodium bicarbonate) so that is the one you have to be careful off... Barricade by AN is a good PH UP adjuster... it just takes a while to distribute evenly in the water (1/2hr)...
Also I have not done this too often... but FULVIC ACID will take your PH DOWN... so you might try adding a bit of that instead of the down... however I would stick with the down for now until your plants get back on track... but in the future when you mix your nutes, and you want to bring the PH down a bit... FULVIC will do that..
I usually waited to add FULVIC LAST after seeing where the PH was after the other products... then I would add just enuf fulvic to bring the ph where I wanted it... but not MORE than recomended

So mix your nutes.... take 2 ph reading 1/2hr apart that read the same... THEN add to your plants... Mix it up to 5.7 then don't adjust it down until it hits 6.3 then back down to 5.7
remember to keep your nute tank FRESH... don't just add more water and nutes to a 7day old partial tank of nutes... dump the damn thing out and start FRESH... also hook up that RO filter...
Smoke a big fat one and relax.... it'll get better

Peace
BB

 

[Sinsemillian]

Man thanks for the awesome replys. Its more appreciated then I can explain. lol. Well I am in the process of moving everything upstairs in a bedroom. The temps downstairs I think have been to cold. Even though it says 20 in the poly room the walls are uninsulated and very cold. The floors are also a little cold so this may be affecting and slowing root growth. I just finished running my dryer plug up to the room and am now going to move the system. Hopefully the rootzone will be warm and grow. I was using the 1000W MH mostly to warm the poly room downstairs up. Without it on temps are 56F. I think your help is going to get me through my ordeal bergerbuddy. Right now I am stressed tha fook out with these probs. main reason I never wanted to put the system upstairs is inc case of a leak so I am going to put sopme poly on the floor also. Going to have to worry about keeping the rez temps in order next I guess. lol. Ah the pleasures I have experienced so far doing a hydro grow. Hopefully these plants can recover and turn out fine. I guess its gonna be time to break out the air cooled fitting for the reflectors. To be honest I bought my RO filter off ebay and the guy never gave me any directions!! I emailed him with no response a few times. Aquasafecanada dot com is his website and there are no instructions on the even. rofl. I will take some pics once the system is moved and set back up. So any help with the RO or anything else bergerbuddy is more then welcome. If I was not already bald I'm sure I would have pulled all my hair out by now.

 

[powdergreen]

RO filters are easy to instal trust me, it looks like a mess of a job but it usually only take a half hour or less. look on internet for instructions they are usually the same or similar depends on what valves u have..

 

[Sinsemillian]

Thanks for the heads up powdergreen. I never thought to look for instructions elsewhere to hook this R/O up. I did have it hooked up actually with the 5 gallon rez it came with and its slow comming out of the faucet attachment. Also when the rez was empty it nothing would come out and it took 5 mins to fill back up. I was living in the bush at the time on well water with a psi of 35 i think. lol Thats prolly why I lost interest in the R/O filter. Can they be run without a rez and steady run when turned on? I have the garden hose attachment and faucet attachemnt to.

Well I got everything setup. I have the white rhino mums that I have been flowering now in the room with the multiflow system. I think I will move them each day into 12 hours of dark because I have not really been taking care of them for the past 12 days since I put them into flower so hopefully the side lighting will be good enuff for them. I also noticed roots growing out sideways underneath the rockwool cubes when I moved a few hydroton balls. This may seem funny to experienced hydro growers but this is my first hydro grow and seeing roots traveling down into the hydroton has got me really excited!!! They were 4 inches long so hopefully things will be picking up. I cant wait till they reach the bottom and fill the buckets. Its also hard to tell if the new growth is going to be ok because it has not opening up yet but looks normal to me.

The RH in the room is 70% so I have to do something soon if I am going to be continuing to flower the mums in there. Tomorrow I think I will hook the air cooled attachments to my super sun reflectors. I have to figure this humidity issue out also. I plan on introducing CO2 within a week. I have an 8" hurricane fan and a can 38 special carbon filter to setup as well. I am going to try and tie it all into my Greenair atmospheric controller. I also have a CD-6 CO2 generator. If anyone has any suggestions on how to set the atmospheric controller and CO2 gen , carbon filter all together please let me know as it will be my first time. I want to have a sealed room setup. In the past I was always intake and exhaust 24/7. lol.

Well once again guyz thanks for the help. If not for your input I would most definately be lost.

Regards,
Sinse.

 

[Sinsemillian]

Oh yeah bergerbuddy I forgot to mention. I mixed up a fresh batch of nutes. 2.5M 5G 2.5B ML/gallon. I let the mix settle for 30 minutes like you suggested. PH is 5.7 PPM is 400 and rez temp is 67F. I have always used AN hydroponic nutes in soil and never let anything settle very much b4 adjusting the PH. Only about 2 mins or so while I was lighting a smoke. Although I was only mixing up a 5 gallon batch. The hydroguard should be here in a few days so I will be adding that to the regime. Also I never adding any fulvic acid this time like you suggested. Seeing the roots travelling down gives me the hopes that things are going to take off real soon in the system. Have a good one guyz!