What the HELL is up with my clones?? (pic)

[ItsGrowTime]

OK, so now Im getting pissed. Ive been successfully cloning using a basic bubble cloner for a couple years and now, all of a sudden, I can't clone a plant to save my life. It's the same cloner Ive always used and my last two clone runs have failed miserably. Water temps 76-80, decently lightproofed, distilled water. I don't get it!

Here's what is happening after about 5 days in the cloner. The arrows point to the problem.

The stems right under the first leaf are dying. The "meat" is completely gone. It's the part that sits in the styrofoam on top of the water. Only thing I can think of is the styrofoam is offgassing or something. Nothing else makes sense. Anybody seen this before? Thoughts?

 

[Greyskull]

bump
no idea boss... fuck...

 

[overmind1632]

Looks like rot

My guess is that the part that is in contact with the strofoam is either too wet or contaminated with something or even both

 

[SacredBreh]

couple of thoughts

couple of thoughts

1. Are these new collars you are using to hold the clones in place?
-a. if they are they may be putting pressure on the vasculature of the stem
-b. if they are used before.... maybe colonized by bacteria, fungi, virus that is infecting the stem at that point.

Knowing you.... you have already thought of these but thought I would throw them out there myself. I have the damnedest time with seedlings and clones. Once they have roots I can grow them on a hot tin roof in the middle of Arizona but always hit and miss before that....... 100% then 10% then 100% then 0%...... tried about every method around and same hit and miss. Have a friend who can just basically bite them off with his teeth and stick them in soil and get 100% every time........ He is a soil grower so it works for him.... I would try it but getting the soil out presents its own problems.

Peace

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. SB, Im not using collars. The clones sit in holes punched out in a styrofoam sheet. Too wet could be it but this has never been a problem before. I went ahead and switched styrofoam to a previous sheet that didnt have any problems. I think its the styrofoam since that's the only thing that was changed when my issues started.

Keep the thoughts coming if anyone has any more.

 

[Gangabiss]

Maybe you're bubbling too vigorously?

From what I can see the stems seem quite thin and delicate in the first place...were they quite tight in the holes when you put them in?
The bubbling could have bent the stems from the constant jossling about.

That's all I can think of as they look pretty healthy apart from the snapped stems.

Just to add, I recently tried the exact same method you're using (plants supported in styrofoam sitting in water with bubbler underneath) and got a bad case of PM which spread to all plants very quickly. Probably due to the very high humidity with all the bubble popping.
I put a weak fan blowing across the tops along with a good dunking in baking soda and dish soap and they cleared up overnight.


I know what you mean about coning being a finicky process even for the experienced grower.
Last time I got 100% success cloning in coco, this time they've taken twice as long and my ratio has dropped to 15%. lol

 

[Skipload]

I would guess there damping off. I would sterilize anything I could and use an anti fungal spray. If your into organic, I hear cinnamon or garlic helps prevent it.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Maybe you're bubbling too vigorously?

From what I can see the stems seem quite thin and delicate in the first place...were they quite tight in the holes when you put them in?
The bubbling could have bent the stems from the constant jossling about.

That's all I can think of as they look pretty healthy apart from the snapped stems.

Just to add, I recently tried the exact same method you're using (plants supported in styrofoam sitting in water with bubbler underneath) and got a bad case of PM which spread to all plants very quickly. Probably due to the very high humidity with all the bubble popping.
I put a weak fan blowing across the tops along with a good dunking in baking soda and dish soap and they cleared up overnight.


I know what you mean about coning being a finicky process even for the experienced grower.
Last time I got 100% success cloning in coco, this time they've taken twice as long and my ratio has dropped to 15%. lol

I think this is the cause and Ive made changes accordingly. The air pump is brand new so its really blowing the bubbles at force and beating the clones up pretty good underwater, causing them to rub against the styrofoam, instead of just sitting calmly in it. Nothing else really makes any sense to me.

Hopefully the problem is resolved.

 

[overmind1632]

I was wondering, why not take shorter, (not smaller), clones?

 

[magiccannabus]

I think the bacteria/fungus called pythium is probably the cause here. Some rooting mediums are more susceptible to it than others, but it can happen in any. I think the stuff might be airborne. Once a plant or a cutting gets it in the roots and stems, it's usually screwed.

I've just started my bubble cloner back up again after a year or two of disuse. I got rid of my aquarium gravel in the bottom cause it just caused bacteria, and instead used silicone(get the aquarium type though) to hold the air stones down. I have found that if your air bubbles are too forceful, add more stones, use one of those multi-outlet air pump splitters with the valves on each outlet, they sell them at pet stores. If you use one pump and multiple stones/bubble curtains, you will often find whichever one sits lower, or is a little easier to push air through gets by far the most air. With the valves you can control how much each gets. You'd have to really overdo it to get too much air in a bubble cloner. Diffuse little bubbles do a lot better job than big forceful ones.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

I was wondering, why not take shorter, (not smaller), clones?

Its a sativa leaning strain so if I want a lower node with leaves (which I do... it helps the clones take off very quickly once installed), they end up being 4"to 5" long. Same size Ive always selected with good results previously so nothing unusual there.

 

[B.C.]

hmm...

hmm...

It does look like the bubbles kinda beat em up and kinked the stems. If ya think it could be some sorta damp off disease or fungi add some h2o2. 1-2 Tbls per gal would work. But I would try to tone down the bubbles first. I think they've been kinked. Good luck IGT! BC

 

[ItsGrowTime]

It does look like the bubbles kinda beat em up and kinked the stems. If ya think it could be some sorta damp off disease or fungi add some h2o2. 1-2 Tbls per gal would work. But I would try to tone down the bubbles first. I think they've been kinked. Good luck IGT! BC

Thanks BC. That's what Ive settled on as the cause. Im going to pick up some ceramic air diffusers tomorrow and ditch the big bubble blue airstones entirely. I can't afford to blow another batch of clones over stupid stuff like this.