What the hell is organic?

[Guest]

This is an odd topic because it implies something which it isn't entirely. Organic by deffinition is well something that is/was an organism; which basically means it is/was "alive". This is very misleading in that organic brings to mind what would actually be considered natural but not the same as organic. USDA allows non-organics to be used in certified 100% organic standards. Minerals for example are not arganic, because they never lived but how in the world would you garden without rocks of any sort?!

'Naturally occuring' is what we often think of when we think organics so why did organics get such a widespread name for itself when it is actually very limiting and inefficient when it comes to explanation of good things found in a healthy soil.?
Perhaps it is because naturally occuring could also allow such things as hormones, antibodies, dyes, polymers (some are natural - Gelatin). These kinds of things are often frowned on by organic growers yet they are found in the natural world being produced by the plants themselves.
Extractions such as flavorings, colors and scents are not considered to be organic yet are produced by the plants themselves. It is usually said that it is because of the "processing" necessary to refine these that makes them unacceptable. I can accept that if they are washed with chemicals and such so then I ask; what if these are used but not chemically treated? By composting onions, papaya, horseradish, fish, citrus, etc... you would be left with the various acids and whatevers that make up these plant flavors and so on. It seems obvious that these would in some small way be passed on to the next plant that uses them.
Beer; is beer organic or inorganic? Well, it's probably technically inorganic but what is in it? Hops (related to MJ), yeast (found in my tea), sugar (also found in my tea), malt, alcohol, and water (also found in my tea), CO2, I can't find any information about preservatives or not. Plants love beer! The alcohol in beer is converted to sugars and used quickly by the plant especially if foliarly applied; Thats just plant physiology.

The whole organic thing is very ill-defined in regard to nature. Perhaps natural would be a better choice of words at least for me, otherwise I'm "organic with loose morals".

J.

 

[BurnOne]

Pyrex-
Man, I don't know.
But I do know this... I chose organic growing solely because it works best for me. I wasn't thinking about the environment or taste or responsibility. It just seemed like the best option for my situation.
In a nutshell we are looking for organic and natural in here. Dolomite isn't organic. Neither is Epsom or gypsum. But they are considered (by us anyway) to be fine to use in organic growing. Some say Pro Mix isn't organic because it contains a small fertilizer charge and a wetting agent (soap). But all that stuff will be long gone by harvest time. So, what's the problem?
IMO the thing to most worry about is mixing synthetics into your grow that can kill the microherd. And to use a balanced amount of humates, N-P-K, Magnesium and Calcium. Enhancers like molasses and Liquid Karma go beyond the basics.
So, don't sweat it Bro. Just grow it.
Burn1

 

[jaykush]

been thinking about this lately. there has to be a better term than "organic" for the ppl who take it to the next level, because a lot of the amendments we use are not organic by defenition. but like burn one said. dont sweat it, its basically organic growing. and it grows the dank.

 

[Guest]

What is Organic Agriculture?
Definition

According to the USDA National Organic Standards Board (NOSB),

organic agriculture is defined as "an ecological production management system that promotes and enhances biodiversity, biological cycles, and soil biological activity. It is based on minimal use of off-farm inputs and on management practices that restore, maintain, or enhance ecological harmony. The primary goal of organic agriculture is to optimize the health and productivity of interdependent communities of soil life, plants, animals and people."

(NOSB, 1997) The term "organic" is defined by law (see "Legal" section below), as opposed to the labels "natural" and "eco-friendly," which may imply that some organic methods were used in the production of the foodstuff, but this label does not guarantee complete adherence to organic practices as defined by a law. Most "natural" products do not contain synthetic products, but may have been provided conventional (synthetic chemicals used in production) food or feed (as in "natural" beef).
http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/organicag/whatis.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_gardening

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming:
Organic farming is a form of agriculture which avoids or largely excludes the use of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, plant growth regulators, and livestock feed additives. As far as possible organic farmers rely on crop rotation, crop residues, animal manures and mechanical cultivation to maintain soil productivity and tilth, to supply plant nutrients, and to control weeds, insects and other pests.

According to the international organic farming organisation IFOAM :

"The role of organic agriculture, whether in farming, processing, distribution, or consumption, is to sustain and enhance the health of ecosystems and organisms from the smallest in the soil to human beings." [3]

Organic farming is also often associated with support for principles beyond agricultural practices, such as fair trade and environmental stewardship.

Approximately 31 million hectares (75 million acres) worldwide are now grown organically. [4]

 

[Dignan]

OMRI

OMRI

I wanted to interject a quick something that is related but not entirely OT with the original post... but when you are choosing the products you grow with (if you are actually using store-bought products), don't put too much weight on the OMRI label. Their guidelines are VERY loose, by the standards of most of us interested in soil biology and absolutely maximizing soil health.

You'd think OMRI would be our friend, but like most regulatory agencies, it's quite political. On the list of their OMRI-approved ingredients are things like copper sulfate, pyrethrum and spinosad, substances that are toxic to fish, birds, and an array of beneficial insects, and that eliminate earthworms from soil after prolonged use. I personally don't put much weight on a approval given by an agency with such loose guidelines.

 

[B.C.]

What is organic...

What is organic...

The question itself is a never ending debate.lol I think fer the most part,folks look at nutes that have been chelated to salt or metals as inorganic.And those that are not as organic.BUT like I said it's a never ending debate,mostly cuz it's ones opinion of what -they- think it is.My 2 pennys.Take care...BC

 

[Guest]

plants uptake inorganic minerals...organics is about the planet earth the balance of the soil and reefs and water ways...something man cares not about...thats my two cents

 

[B.C.]

lol

lol

This is part of the never endin debate:minerals.No there not organic but are not man made either blah,blah,blah....My post was jus laymans terms of organic vs chems.I'm not sure about savin the world though...later,BC

 

[Guest]

I know what I do and what I care about; I just don't know what label applies to me (as well as alot of others). I don't think it's actually the label that matters but rather the political correctness of it. After a more intensive look at the deffinitions and products of "organic", it seems that organic is a marketing label and Natural more correctly describes the rebuilding of healthy soils. Personally, I'm all for the use of anything in nature; whether it is organic or not. It is the chemical macros which I have a problem with and the related amendments which are heavily washed, treated, etc... with chemicals. In short it is the ingredients that matter not the certification.

Here's another stumper for ya:
Colchicine is an extract from the Autumn Crocus; by crushing the bulb and filtering (no chems needed) you will be left with a crude but active compound of Colchicine. Colchicine is natures way of telling competitor plants "back the fuck up"! By producing this in the roots, it ensures that only fellow Crocus may approach. Competitor plants will be stunted, deformed and even killed by encroaching on the personal space of the Crocus. This sounds pretty damned organic to me, however production of polyploids is most deffinately consaidered non-organic by standards. This is comparable to Arsenic; Arsenic is produced by apple seeds. Arsenic is a known poison but produced by an organism. I can't say what benefit if any there is to Arsenic but I think it's safe to say it is a deffense mechanism for the apple. Either way, I'm just not comfortable with the term Organic anymore, it seems too misleading and confusing to be of help. Like I said I know what I do and what I believe; I just don't know what it's called.

J.

 

[barnyard]

Organic chemistry is the study of compounds containing carbon.

Please consider the context under which the word is used and its meaning will become more apparant. For example "well" can be something to get water from or a quality of being - depending on the context.

""organic gardening" refers to using methods which tie into ecological cycles and using non synthetic materials. Organic gardenig methods often follow third party pre-established guidelines.

organic gardeing methods are usefull because of their efficency, sustainabiltiy and palatability. I grow using organic methods because I'm cheap and lazy. Plus organic grown weed tastes yummy

what the hell is "natural'?" the "808" synthesiser is as natural as the alfafa meal I use in my grow mix, IMO. Put another way, the city the homo sapiens create is as "natural" as the forest because its jsut an organism creating habitate. P & J you've defined "natural" no more than you have "organic"

perhaps a better question would be "what the hell are you cultivating?"

peace out,
Barn

 

[Guest]

Awe............ did I upset Gellybelly? Poor baby! Go ahead and give me all the negative reps you want!
I can clearly see you know what the USDA thinks Organic is and if I cared what USDA thinks I'd have asked them. Hope you grow up some day, if not, oh well! If you have something to say to me, do it in English not that IM bullshit - I can't read that unintelligible crap. Sorry buddy, all my tolerance for childish/immature shit is reserved for my kids. and No, I'm not gonna argue life experience with a kid.
BTW, tell USDA and Wiki Thanks for the contributions!

J.