What now? Ph or moths or ??????

[Hash Man]

this issue cropped up on my ogkush clones over the last 2 days. this issue has plaugued my growroom for a long time, either i am missing something i n regards to micronutrients or the ph is off...somehhow (6.5) or moths are eating my growroom. I am at a loss here you guys. PLZ PLZ help and fast if you have seen and cured this issue. these pics are macros of the sick leaves. the plants have been in ffof in 4.5 inch bacgs for about 3 weeks. its only on a few of them... could it be a bacterial infection???? thanks for any help.HM

if the pics dont show just press f5 to reload and it should work. Here is the ?aire for mynamestitch.

How long has this problem been going on? 1-2 days
What STRAIN are you growing? OG kush (abusive cut)
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) clone
What is the age of your plants? 1 month +
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 1 month.
How Tall are the plants? 8 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) a few have been topped or fimmed at the 5th node and are taking off
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3.5 inch to 1 pint.
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) ffof
What Nutrient's are you using? none yet.
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* water only (6.4 ph.) until runoff.
How often are you feeding? about every 2-3 days
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? n/a
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) n/a
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? water ppm is 70. well water.
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.2
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? ph pen
How often are you watering? 2-3 days.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? nothing but ffof soil
What size bulb are you using? t5 flourescent. the leaves are touching the lights.
What is the distance to the canopy? touching. but the messed up ones are not touching.
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 35%
What is the canopy temperature? 70-78f
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 65-78
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 4 inch can fan intake, can fan exhaust.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? it runs during the lights on, off during lights off.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist to dry.
Is your water HARD or SOFT? well water. 36 ppm cacium/magnesium
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? WEll
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? may of them have been topped or fimmed, these are not problem plants though
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? safer fugacide
Are plant's infected with pest's? maybe. some moths were flying around in the room, watching for mites as a few spots have appeared in one tray.

 

[Hash Man]

anyone?

anyone?

here is another pic. but its from my current grow which is about 5 days from 12/12 . this is the same issue in the other room... what could it be. anyone please help. i have posted multipe threads that turn into nothing. and its hard to wait for any thoughts when you have a deficiency. i have since sprayed with a foliar of sray and grow with bills perfect fetalizer and coco wet incase its some sort of uptake issue. the ppm runofff is around 1100 ...
thanks for any help.

 

[HeadyPete]

Move the lights 4-6 inches away from the tops. T5s can be close, but there is still a limit. Those are burns from heat stress.

Lights can burn either by thermal heat or by light energy. Even if it feels cool to your hand, light energy collects in the leaf tissue and overheats and burns plants. Also, reflectors and mylar can cause hot spots, uneven concentration of light in certain areas, that can burn leaves where you thought they would be fine.

That other leaf is from a different room? Please fill out the form for that room. Could be different issue altogether. 1100ppm sounds high, depending on the wattage of light....

 

[Hash Man]

right on man thats as valid an answer as i have heard yet. i kept wondering how one of my plants was getting heat stress even though i reaise all the lights up all the way, it must be my easy grow reflective film. good eye on spotting the leaf from the different room. its critica mass and is included in my og kush and critical mass airpot grow. here is a rundown of stitches form.


How long has this problem been going on? about 10 days
What STRAIN are you growing? og kush and critical mass
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) clone
What is the age of your plants? 2.5 months
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 10 days
How Tall are the plants? they are bent so its hard to tell, roughtly 25-32 inches high
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? late veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) lst, supercropping, fim, topping
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 5 gallon airpruning, 1 per
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) ffof with 30% perlite, 1 cup dolomite lime per bag, 1 heapng tablespoon of michrozia fungi per bag.
What Nutrient's are you using? none for now. will start floranova and sweet for flower. i have sprayed spray n grow on some of the plants that exhibited stress and they have grown a lot
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding? the soil feeds with every water.
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? in 4 days i will switch to bloom nutes, under the assumption that my ffof has enough nutes in it to aid with the transition
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.7, 900 ppm
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? pen
How often are you watering? every 2-3 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?last night
What size bulb are you using? 1000 wat hps
What is the distance to the canopy?25 inches, it was as close as 12
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 35-75 day and night
What is the canopy temperature? 72-77
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)65-78
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)lots. active intake, aircooled lights, huge exhaust.
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? ehaust turns on when it gets too hot, it turns off if it gets to cold... at night. the ventilation is 10min every hour.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? yes
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? its moist now, it was wet last time
Is your water HARD or SOFT? 37 ppm calmag.
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? well
Are you using water from a water softener? no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? oh yea. multiple times and lst
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? pyrethran bomb and spray. safer sulfer spray. we will use sulfer burner soon too.
Are plant's infected with pest's? yes., mites are under control and betting beaten out. i have hot shots no pest strips in there too. not sure if i have anything else. moths were in the room before the no pest strips.

 

[HeadyPete]

Sorry I should have asked for pix of that other plant as well.....

Is that damage limited to one leaf or is it on others? Has the ph been stable all the way through?

Looks like either the leaf was physically damaged at an earlier age and grew out like that or the spray n grow or some of those other sprays possible burned and injured the leaf if sprayed when it was young. Other than that damage the leaf is in really good shape.

Was the plant with heat stress under the center of the reflector of the 1K? Rotate the plants around if you can, or at least give them a quarter turn every day. This will move hot spots around and also let light penetrate deeper into the plant by changing the shadow angles...this leads to bigger, more evenly formed buds come harvest time.

 

[Hash Man]

pete,i will take som pics of the room tonight. most of the pics in my gallery are flooded with hps light. i added dolomite lime during my transition from 2 gallon to five gallon, and it had not sat in the soil for 3 weeks. the soil ph is around 6.7... so you could say it has not been so stable. the spray and grow was only sprayed on the plants that looked bad, and they have no of the messed up leaf. i have a ppm of 900 runoff and i guess next time i will add floranova bloom and sweet as i switch to 12/12. i guess a question is if i have lime in the soil and the runoff is 6.7m what is the best ph to put into the soil. i have been usiing 6.0. thanks again.

 

[HeadyPete]

You want nutes and runoff to be around 6.3 - 6.5 for soil. If you put in 6 and 6.7 comes out then the soil is around 7.4 ...too high. FFOF already is balanced to 6.3 - 6.8, you don't need the lime. You should be able to put 6.5 in and get approx 6.5 out straight from the bag. Lime is slow acting so it's not a huge problem, but no more lime next time.

Bring your watering down to 5.7 gradually and see if your runoff will start moving closer to 6.5. As the runoff comes down, your watering ph can go up till they both meet at 6.5. If it doesn't come down, then the lime is raising ph too much and you need to transplant. Make all ph changes slowly over many days.

Some burnt older leaves at the bottom. Were these plants always in OF? This soil is too hot for seedlings and clones, use Light Warrior or any seed starting mix but make sure there is no nutrients, compost fertilizer etc in the soil. After week 2-3 you can use the OF.

Overall they look very good, don't fret about the odd weird leaf or old injuries.

 

[Hash Man]

these pants were started in ffof and light warrior. i am hopeful about being about to stabalize my ph, as i have already brought it down by.2 ... i guess the ph pen that sticks in the soil is a bit faulty as it is registering 6.8 ph or my method of testing the runoff is faulty. i collected 20 ml of runoff and tested ppm and ph with the pens that stick in the water.i guess the slow ph drop will make em happy. should i use 5ml of bloom and 5 ml of grow per gallon for the 2 week transition?

 

[HeadyPete]

Yeah they look like they got a little burnt when young.

Those soil ph probes are garbage. Use your digipens but be sure to calibrate them regularly and keep them clean and stored in the proper solution.

Measure the runoff ph and compare that to the ph of the solution going in. If you put in 6.5 and it comes out 6.5 you are golden. If it comes out lower you need to raise nute solution accordingly. If it runs off higher, nute solution needs to go down next time.

Those doses sound fine but watch your plants for signs of overfeeding a few days after. If you are getting deficiencies, raise the dose. Read the plant, feed it what it needs. It takes time and experience.

 

[Hash Man]

right on man. ok so tnight i watered with the first watering of floranova bloom. i watered at 5.8 ph and 450 ppm as i plan to irrigate every time, like lucs suggests.the thing is . somf of the buckets were coming out at 1050 ppm and 7.4 runoff. others were running off at 1550 ppm and 7.0 runoff. what should i do, the plants look healthy and have dramatic growth all over them. will the hmic acid in the floranova shield the ph issue or should i flush, or water with some sort of fast acting ph down soil ammenment. the ppm and ph shifts did not seem to correlate with different strands, it was random. other than that, im hitting 12/12 as of 8 am tomorrow morn. 8-10 weeks i should be good to go and a bit more dialed in on these og. thanks again.


how low is too low to put water in at... 5.0? 4.0?

 

[HeadyPete]

The thing with ph is you want to go real slowly over days to change it. You will shock the hell out of them if you do a big ph change at once. PH + fast acting = disaster.

Go easy on feeding until the ppms come down. That is your soil and the ferts in it.... You should be fine for the first 2 weeks of 12/12 with that soil, then go easy.

If you have ph problems then a transplant is the only thing to help, since that lime in the soil isn't gonna get flushed out. As long as they look fine, keep with the acidic watering at 5.8 and wait and see. They should start coming down soon. Base your measurements on an average of a few tests over days, not just one test.

Different plants eat differently depending on where they are in the room, how much light, air circ, etc

Wait until the pot is almost completely light in weight before watering again. You do not want to overwater.

 

[Hash Man]

so in light of the fact that my soil ppm is so high, should i just use water next time, or maybe a compost tea? i know BOG used to use superthrive in the first week or two, and many farmers swear by superthrive for increased yields,,, any thoughts on if i should use or not usethe superthrive?

 

[theHIGHlander]

cant add anything to what Headypete has said...

keep it green
highlander

 

[HeadyPete]

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. They will be fine with plain ph'd water for at least 2 weeks. Keep testing the ppm and as long as they are around 900 or higher, you will be around where you want to be. From there the plant will tell you if it needs a little more or a little less.

Wait a week or so before starting the nutrients again. They don't need much bloom at the switch to 12/12, more nitrogen for the stretch, but they will need more bloom in the coming weeks. Those lower doses sound fine for now but the plants will tell you. The FFOF has nutrients in it. Lots of nutes.

Wait a couple weeks before using the Sweet.

I would give the Superthrive away to someone growing houseplants, IMO. I have seen more abuse with ST than any other additive. If you keep them healthy and stable and properly fed, you will get your yield. Go for potency and a nice healthy plant first, then there is plenty of room for tweaking to get a little more. Once you grow them minimally, then you can truly see if your extra additives are doing anything worthwhile.

I guarantee I have a tip for more yield that is free and easy and will grow you bigger buds than a bucketload of additives.......give your plants a 1/4 turn everyday so that the entire plant gets even light coverage and even, fat bud growth. This will ensure the whole plant is under the hottest part of the light for some time, and under the darkest part.

Then I only cut down the ready parts of the big top buds at screen level (LST/SCROG), remove the screen, lower the light and give the lower half another 7 days of light. If not, the lower buds are inferior and less potent than the mature buds. Makes sense, right?

That's how you maximize your crop.

 

[Hash Man]

right on pete,. thanks for all the help and great information. my ladies have been in the ffof since march first. do you mean wait another 2 weeks. also they have 30% perlite so its less nutes than normal ffof. so far they look great and green but i can see what you mean. if i were to feed again im sure it would overdose as my growth is luscious. so ill nix the superthrive. what do you think about spray and grow and or bills perfect fertalizer with coco wet. i guess the floranova has everything i need and with the sweet itll pack on weight. im thinking about using a foliar with bills fertalizer and sray anad grow once a week. or also adding in floraliscious bloom... what do you think pete?

 

[HeadyPete]

I think if they are green and luscious like you say, I wouldn't spray em with anything. Start your bloom nute sched next week. The FFOF will carry them no problem. I would concentrate on the minimum to get nice buds at the end of the run. After that when you are more familiar with your system and strains, you can add a product to see if it helps. You can do A-B tests by adding new product to a couple plants to compare to others in the garden without the new additive. This way you can see if there is results and you are not just pouring your cash down the drain.

I personally don't like foliar sprays (unless it is pest control) because sprays will leave a residue and then that residue is on your bud when you smoke it. Plus, sprays raise humidity in the canopy and increase chances for mold and bud rot.

The last point is why spend the money on stuff you don't need? If I could blow my girls a kiss everyday and not buy any nutes, that would be ideal. I want great weed, CHEAP! These dudes running hundreds or thousands of dollars of product just makes my head shake.....then there are the dudes frying their gardens because......

The marketing told them to.....

These companies spend obscene amounts of cash on marketing and colourful glitzy labeling to draw you in, they could care less if it is something your garden really needs. After hanging here for so long I see the results. Noobs coming here with fried plants because they were all gung ho to buy and add every pretty bottle they see at the hydro store.

If the FN is working for you and you are happy with a refined mineral product (I won't say chem) rather than a composted organic product, then stick with the FN. GH is a reputable company and you won't go wrong there.

 

[HeadyPete]

You don't need the wetting agent. That is good stuff for peat mixes, because peat is kinda waxy and once dry, has a hard time absorbing water. You can also add a drop of dish detergent to do the same thing for free. But hey, the nute companies can label something for coco and people will buy it, needed or not. Now that coco is becoming more popular, companies will begin coming up with all kinds of new coco stuff we don't need, just because it is a growth market.

Coco is one of the best substrates for wicking and absorbing water, al the while maintaining that important water/air ratio in the root zone.