What is wrong with my BIOBIZZ CALMAG? Very low ppm/ec at max dosage, but my EC meter is working correctly..

[kreikrei]

Hi!
I am very confused, would appreciate your help!
I recently bought an RO machine, because my tapwater is 300+ppm
I use BIOBIZZ nute line (Grow, Bloom, algamic, activera, topmax)

Biobizz recommends 0.5-1ml/L calmag, IF YOU HAVE SOFT OR RO WATER (thats what I have)

So, today was my first big watering. It is day 15 for my autoflowers.

1. I poured in 2 liters of RO water - EC meter shows 5 ppm
2. I add 1ml/l Biobizz calmag (so 2ml total) - I was expecting 150ppm, but I got only 40ppm.
3. I tested my ECmeter against other nute solutions, it shows the correct value, so my EC meter is working

40 ppm is clearly too LOW for plants calcium and magnesium requirements right?
But I get 40ppm of calmag if I use MAX rcommended Biobizz dosage.
To get 100-150 ppm of calmag (which I see recomended), I would need to add 3-4x recommended biobizz dose.

What is wrong here?
Can my calmag be expired/bad batch? (I have 2 bottles for 6 months, tested both, and both give very low calmag ppm at recommended dosage per litre)

Thank you!

 

[Creeperpark]

You will be glad you got RO water and you will see a big difference when you get dialed in. I don't know about Biobizz but with the nutrients, I use, I add enough cal mag for 126 ppm before adding fertilizers. I'm doing a RO and so far so good.

 

[iStruggle]

I just installed an ro system exclusively for coco and my god, life is so much easier.

 

[Ca++]

What's wrong with 300ppm tap? Have you looked at a water report for your area. The local provider probably publishes them online.

300ppm is nice ? most feeds expect that, and are formulated for it. Like yours, which needs work if you don't have that 300ppm they expect you to have.

There is a real situation, where people are taking stuff out their water, then putting it back with a bottle. Obviously you can see the ridiculousness of that situation, but it's happening. Cal-Mag solutions to correct soft water are very possibly the stuff you have taken out. Not food additives to fix calcium deficiencies.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

What's wrong with 300ppm tap?

Ok, aside from the fact cannabis is a dynamic accumulator... a lot?

#1 Reason? Rock solid, repeatable results, day in, day out, season by season, location by location. R/O filtered water lets you start at zero and work with only what the plant needs. You can also share/exchange information readily with anyone else in the world using R/O. (Barring the rare exceptional places lol)

#2 Cleaner cannabis is better cannabis. The *exhale* of the last hit in a tightly packed bowl should be almost as tasty as the first hit. This is extremely difficult to do (I say impossible with 300ppm in most water supplies) with non-filtered water.

 

[kreikrei]

Thanks guys.
I bought RO, because my buddy who lives in the same area and grows for a few years, said that with our tap,he was facing issues he hadnt before (he moved from a place with soft tap water) - so he bought an RO
And since I trust his judgement and he uses the same genetics for years (cloned his favourite) - I decided to give RO a try.

About calmag - yeah, I shouldnt need 6-8ml per LITRE of calmag to get to 150ppm
Will go to my growshop today and buy another calmag (only 5 usd) and test with my EC meter there

 

[Creeperpark]

What's wrong with 300ppm tap? Have you looked at a water report for your area. The local provider probably publishes them online.

300ppm is nice ? most feeds expect that, and are formulated for it. Like yours, which needs work if you don't have that 300ppm they expect you to have.

There is a real situation, where people are taking stuff out their water, then putting it back with a bottle. Obviously you can see the ridiculousness of that situation, but it's happening. Cal-Mag solutions to correct soft water are very possibly the stuff you have taken out. Not food additives to fix calcium deficiencies.

The problem with 300 ppm tap water is I don't know what the ppm contents are. Plus the addition of antibacterial chemicals (chlorine, chloramines) are harmful to soil bacteria. When I put back cal mag in pure water I know exactly what the ppm is and the ratio too. Nobody likes their stuff cut and that goes for plants too. Only the pure stuff.

 

[kreikrei]

The problem with 300 ppm tap water is I don't know what the ppm contents are. Plus the addition of antibacterial chemicals (chlorine, chloramines) are harmful to soil bacteria. When I put back cal mag in pure water I know exactly what the ppm is and the ratio too. Nobody likes their stuff cut and that goes for plants too. Only the pure stuff.

Also, I think RO isnt even that much more of a hassle - I have it attached under my sink.Yes, it does take some time to fill up 3 gallon jug of water.
But at the same time, a lot of people who use tap water, put it out for 24hoursto dechlorinate.
Ive noticed it raised ph, and my tapwater ph is 7.2
So I not only need to let the water sit for 24 hours, I alsoneed to use ph down - all in all I find RO + calmag simpler.

 

[Dentex]

Measuring ppm in organic nutes like biobizz isn't the way.Of course you will get the readings you expect with mineral cal mag.

 

[Ca++]

I have turned to RO when encountering problems. Quite recently I had it automated, such that the tank would fill via the RO machine, then switch off. However, I was just putting back what the machine took out.

On the topic of RO machines, every one I could find, had the wrong filter in it. They come in many grades, but the actual issue I encountered was pressure rating. The home one's come in two general pressure ranges, and while our taps are almost always in the low pressure elements range, we get given high pressure elements. The net result, is a 100gpd unit might not make 20g. The 100gpd housing will take a 150gpd element in the domestic supplies range, and actually start trickling out RO, not dribbling.


I recognise the arguments presented, and the counter arguments. I can only speak for my own findings, and that of the feed manufacturers I use. Like the one in this thread, they are formulated for tap, and tap rarely has the Ca:Mg ratio's of a calmag bottle. Who's purpose is something else. Calmag is for Calcium. Treatments for putting the hardness back, can be carbonates

 

[Three Berries]

Good article on carbonates and how they interact, break down and reform.

https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/labcert/documents/training/Basics-GenChem.pdf

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

There are a number of pumps designed to work with r/o systems, and they make it easy to reach 80psi where the high pressure membranes work very well.

 

[kreikrei]

Measuring ppm in organic nutes like biobizz isn't the way.Of course you will get the readings you expect with mineral cal mag.

What would be a better way?
I have a tds meter - it shows only PPM
Wouldnt orgabic calmag register on a PPM meter? I need reliable reading so I can use my RO water and add 50-150 PPM of calmag

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The best way I know of is to start low and work your way up, the same with any nutrient. How quickly your microherd processes the organics is what you need to learn, and in what conditions.

Start on the low strength end. Increase the dosage after the first 2 weeks and then each week after that. There is a point where the plants look healthy and respond to extra nutes with a higher growth rate. When you add nutes and do not get a response in growth rate, the previous nute strength was sufficient for your conditions.

Edit: This is the point you can start using your meter to 'see' what your EC is for this particular strength. Mix to this strength each time and you should be fine. Cal-mag reads just fine on the meter by itself.

 

[revegeta666]

Hi!
I am very confused, would appreciate your help!
I recently bought an RO machine, because my tapwater is 300+ppm
I use BIOBIZZ nute line (Grow, Bloom, algamic, activera, topmax)

Biobizz recommends 0.5-1ml/L calmag, IF YOU HAVE SOFT OR RO WATER (thats what I have)

So, today was my first big watering. It is day 15 for my autoflowers.

1. I poured in 2 liters of RO water - EC meter shows 5 ppm
2. I add 1ml/l Biobizz calmag (so 2ml total) - I was expecting 150ppm, but I got only 40ppm.
3. I tested my ECmeter against other nute solutions, it shows the correct value, so my EC meter is working

40 ppm is clearly too LOW for plants calcium and magnesium requirements right?
But I get 40ppm of calmag if I use MAX rcommended Biobizz dosage.
To get 100-150 ppm of calmag (which I see recomended), I would need to add 3-4x recommended biobizz dose.

What is wrong here?
Can my calmag be expired/bad batch? (I have 2 bottles for 6 months, tested both, and both give very low calmag ppm at recommended dosage per litre)

Thank you!

Hi! Not that I am an authority or anything, but I have talked about this before.

Is my EC meter bad or Something else is going on?

My cheap EC meter seemed fairly reliable until recently. I have been blessed with an abundance of rain that I have been able to store in a barrel and use as the base of my feed. The EC of the unamended rain water is 0.0. When I add my nutrients the EC should be 1.6. Last week and this week when...

www.icmag.com

EC meters just won't work properly with organic bottled nutes like biobizz, biovega and others. I understand your frustration and have been there. With these nutes you're supposed to "play it by ear", as you won't be able to get accurate readings. As someone else suggested, try your meter with chelated CalMag products and you will see it's not broken.

 

[kreikrei]

Hi! Not that I am an authority or anything, but I have talked about this before.

Is my EC meter bad or Something else is going on?

My cheap EC meter seemed fairly reliable until recently. I have been blessed with an abundance of rain that I have been able to store in a barrel and use as the base of my feed. The EC of the unamended rain water is 0.0. When I add my nutrients the EC should be 1.6. Last week and this week when...

www.icmag.com

EC meters just won't work properly with organic bottled nutes like biobizz, biovega and others. I understand your frustration and have been there. With these nutes you're supposed to "play it by ear", as you won't be able to get accurate readings. As someone else suggested, try your meter with chelated CalMag products and you will see it's not broken.

YES YES YES - thank you!!!
@Dentex mentioned this first, I started reading about it and you guys are right!
Do any meters work with organics? EC meter?

P.S. Weird, but my PPM meter does seem to get other nute concentrations right...
For example, I think it measures Biobizz Grow and Bloom concentrations correctly.

 

[revegeta666]

YES YES YES - thank you!!!
@Dentex mentioned this first, I started reading about it and you guys are right!
Do any meters work with organics? EC meter?

P.S. Weird, but my PPM meter does seem to get other nute concentrations right...
For example, I think it measures Biobizz Grow and Bloom concentrations correctly.

I only ever had 2 meters and neither of them was trustworthy. On the other hand I used to have a bottle of calmag by canna, which is mineral or chelated I think they call it, it would measure right everytime and that's how I got to the conclusion it's not worth using an EC meter with biobizz products.

I just stopped trying at the end. Sometimes they can give a realistic reading but I was never actually sure it would be random or accurate. If you have a friend who uses mineral nutea you can check for yourself.

PS - an EC meter and a ppm meter are the same thing, just different units, in case you're not sure.

 

[kreikrei]

I only ever had 2 meters and neither of them was trustworthy. On the other hand I used to have a bottle of calmag by canna, which is mineral or chelated I think they call it, it would measure right everytime and that's how I got to the conclusion it's not worth using an EC meter with biobizz products.

I just stopped trying at the end. Sometimes they can give a realistic reading but I was never actually sure it would be random or accurate. If you have a friend who uses mineral nutea you can check for yourself.

PS - an EC meter and a ppm meter are the same thing, just different units, in case you're not sure.

You seem very knowledgeable, can I please ask for your time for 1 more question?

You know how often when plants show 1 or more deficiencies, the cause isnt the deficiencies themselves, but ph lockout? And the worst you can do when it is lockout is to add more nutes...

Thus, to be able to differentiate when to add nutes and when the problem is in the soil, can I use Bluemats soil ph meter? More specifically, is it a very precise tool,that I can just put in soil whenever I see some kind of "deficiency" and be 100% sure its that or a soil PH issue?

Thanks again!

 

[revegeta666]

You seem very knowledgeable, can I please ask for your time for 1 more question?

You know how often when plants show 1 or more deficiencies, the cause isnt the deficiencies themselves, but ph lockout? And the worst you can do when it is lockout is to add more nutes...

Thus, to be able to differentiate when to add nutes and when the problem is in the soil, can I use Bluemats soil ph meter? More specifically, is it a very precise tool,that I can just put in soil whenever I see some kind of "deficiency" and be 100% sure its that or a soil PH issue?

Thanks again!

I am definitely not as knowledgeable as many others that wrote on this thread, but yes I am familiar with the problem you describe.

Multiple excess/deficiencies symptoms at the same time usually tells you there's something wrong in the root area. Be it a pH imbalance or a salt buildup, even physical damage to the roots. Especially microelement deficiency symptoms or contradicting symptoms. personally never had a soil pH meter so I can't help you with that. I have measured the pH of the runoff water though. I guess it is a similar procedure. In my case, pH of the runoff water being off tells me I should fix the soil pH although this rarely happens if you take care of the pH of the water going in. At least in my experience.

But yes a pH imbalance will make the roots unable to properly assimilate some nutrients so deficiency symptoms can often be the result of this. Here is a chart with the pH range which the plants needs to assimilate the different nutrients.

This illustrates nicely why it is recommended to keep the pH in the 6-7 range to avoid problems of this kind.

 

[Ca++]

There are a number of pumps designed to work with r/o systems, and they make it easy to reach 80psi where the high pressure membranes work very well.

Yes, booster pumps were once commonplace. However, they cost more than swapping for the right element. Add complexity and service costs, while consuming power that's just not needed. It's actually a very bad idea, but it's something else to sell you.
It seems just two years ago I was bashing the ears of suppliers who had no idea of these pressure ranges. Now a search for low pressure one's pulls up lots of results, not non at all. Oddly, mostly UK results, and it's in the UK I was bashing ears, and my IP isn't in the UK. It seems I have made a difference. Quite isolated to the UK, but ask and you will get. Many call them ultra low pressure, and they deliver the rated output at 50psi.

Many use Frotec. The domestic area of the top listed google result site (it's not really them) list 50 75 100 200 300 400 gpd membranes. It's in the subtext where they say the 50 75 and 100 are tested at 60psi, while the 200 300 & 400 are at 100psi. Why would you do that? They are the domestic range. However, dig deep and you find the real site sell not only 50psi rated ones, but at various filtering efficiencies. 50gpd - 150gpd fit the same housing, but the 150gpd 50psi filter, can't do the work of the best 50gpd@80psi filter. The housing is only so big. So while the 150gpd@50psi does indeed trickle, it's not zero ppm. However for a plant, I feel the compromise is very acceptable. I use tap ffs, so something my truncheon can't see, is plenty low enough for me.

This is perhaps more than anyone really need know about filters. Someone had to have a look though, to sort out what the shops stock. Now we can just concern ourselves with getting the 50psi stuff. That is quite happy at 80psi, if you really have that much pressure.