what is this? lime green/yellowing leaves

[Shliite]

-Strain is Nirvana's Bubblicious

-Growing medium is hempy: 75/25 - Perlite/Vermiculite

-In a 4 gallon bucket, under a screen

-Using botanicare lineup: PBP Bloom (soil formula), cal-mag, liquid karma, and recently started using Sweet

-Occasionally added epsom salts

-Handwater ~ every three days.

-Usually my solution consists of:
15ml/gallon PBP Bloom (soil formula)
5ml/gallon Cal-Mag
5ml/gallon Liquid karma
and just started adding 5ml Sweet

-Try to keep pH between 5.8 and 6.2 but my meter isn't very reliable.

I thought it looked like a magnesium issue. I didnt know why because i've been using Cal-mag and have supplemented some epsom salts on occasion. I just gave a good flush and 2 days later fed it: 15ml PBP Bloom, 5ml cal-mag, 5ml LK, and 5ml Sweet.

Pics are from ~2 weeks into flowering:

a few leaves showing the problem-


a close up on one of the older leaves-


close ups on a couple of the newer ones-




leaves on the ~2 week old flowers-

 

[IlluZiOn]

I have same problem...

 

[BudLove]

Those babies look seriously dark green - which would say to me - NUTE BURN.

Sounds like ya gave em a flush - might want to stick with the flush and NOT add drop the nutes down a bit. I've run PBP Bloom but never grow - 15ml/gal sounds right on along with 5ml calmag, but I did NOT use any additives - as these tend to just cause problems unless you're dialed in.

BL

 

[Shliite]

hmmm interesting. i'd like to think the flush helped but i'm not too sure. i'll ease up on the nutes i guess.

 

[MynameStitch]

How much water did you use when you flush, you need to use a lot of water to do a proper flush otherwise it won't make much of a difference.

 

[Shliite]

I used 6 gallons of tap water to flush the 4 gallon pot, and about 3 gallons of tap water for the 1 gallon pot.

I'm guessing your gonna say that wasnt enough water for a thorough flush.. it seemed like enough to me for such a loose medium. The perlite would start to float to the top of the bucket at times because it was so backed up.

The plant seems to be producing buds at about an average rate now... its definitely doing better than it was before. Should i expect the discolored leaves to change? My guess is no. I only ask because I dont know how to figure out if I've fixed the problem or not because theres not much new vegetative growth to analyze.

I'm now feeding about 12ml bloom, 3ml cal mag, 3ml liquid karma, 5 ml sweet, and just started adding 3ml of greenfuse bloom stimulant as well.

I wouldnt be surprised if the problem was over-feeding. I think I was going too heavy on the grow nutes late in veg and in the transition phase. Also, I was throwing in some superthrive with each watering for a while to help deal with the stress of the screen being added; this could have added to the problem. Hopefully the flush was enough to clear out the bad and i'll be able to keep things under control from here on out by making sure i dont over-feed again.

My pH meter is the only thing keeping me from peace of mind... it seems inconsistent even after i calibrate it. I think i'm going to go back to the 3-drop water test method once i get the chance to go back to the store.

All comments appreciated. thanks.

 

[MynameStitch]

No the damaged leaves won't recover; you used enough water it seems, I would have used 1 more gallon of the 4 gallon pot though......

People slam there plants with a lot of food and they don't need all that food; when you double up on food you need to take in account the NPK and add all that up dude; if you use 2 teaspoons of 2-2-2 then your npk will be 4-4-4

you need to do this with every fert you use and you get your final NPK value.

I would not use the greenfuse, you already have plenty of food and you don't want to cause another buildup; if they are still showing problems after a flush it's still your ferts are too high, you are supposed to start out low nutes after a flush to help them recover quicker.

 

[Shliite]

I'm just starting to get a grasp on how nute calculations are done. I stumbled across the Lucas Formula thread and learned a lot. The link to pH's spreadsheet doesn't work so I couldn't take a look at it myself. Does anyone know where I can it?

I can get a final NPK value with most of the botanicare ferts but the labels on some don't have NPK. I just started using GreenFuse bloom stimulant in my last watering. Also, Humboldt's Gravity and Bushmaster which have no NPK values on the label. I didn't use Bushmaster this time but I intend to use the Gravity at 3 weeks before harvest.

I was under the impression that the GreenFuse stimulant was kind of like Sweet, which is 0-0-0. I guess I interpreted "stimulant" that way. It only calls for 3/4 tsp per gallon but i used half of that on my first watering. I also kept the Bloom to about 10ml and cut all the additives in half for that watering.

I basically decided to try to follow the Lucas formula or some variation of it because everythings already been measured out and proven to work that way. The problem is that this is all he says about the PBP products:

and PBPBloom 15, plus 5 cal mag (GrowGreen's formula) it resembles the grow formula of FloraNova @8ml, as well as GH's 15Grow, 10Micro, 5 bloom formulations, the most copied recipe Ive found. It seems competition only copied GH's veg formula for the most part..
Note also that GrowGreen has contributed a total nutes per crop spec, of 15ml per 40 gallons, or 20 ounces of PBPBloom per 1k crop.. a very interesting spec, resulting in about 5000 total ppm of N per croplife..
161
45
214
45

I dont know why Canna and PBP use such lower P and Mg levels than GH, nor do Canna and PBP hit Mel Franks 100-100-200-60 targets the way GH does. Yet folks with Canna and PBP produce excellent results, just like folks with GH do.

There does seem to be a difference in the design of Canna Aqua compared to Canna Coco, and PBP is similar to Canna Coco.. which leads me to think that DWC nute levels can be much higher than medium based nutes that expect accumulation to occur in the medium..

Bear in mind that when looking at Canna Aqua Flores, the K level is rather high, and this inhibits uptake of Mg, which is already a bit low imho.. I have heard repeatedly that Canna Aqua, AND Canna Coco produce Mg deficiency if not supplemented with Epsom at the rate of 1/4tsp per gallon...

I used to recommend PBP be supplemented with Epsom also, but Cal Mag is a better option, as it also adds N

I hope this thread helps to develop an archive of effective nutrient mixes. I can add analysis of other products and combinations if people want to know their profiles and are not spreadsheet savvy.

See, theres nothing in there about Sweet or Liquid Karma. I was under the impression that the Botanicare products worked best when all of these were supplemented. I also thought the GreenFuse Bloom Stimulant worked well with the PBP lineup... but I guess in retrospect, it was the hydro shop guy that told me that.

Other than my pH uncertainties, I think they are reacting pretty well to the flush and lowered PPM.

 

[MynameStitch]

Problem with lucas formula is with strains being so different it won't always work and must be used with strains that can grow good with it.

Some people live by it only because they have grown out strains over and over again not many different ones......

It's not the kind of nutes you are using it's the amounts of all combined..... when you use a lot of nutes you must cut each into half and sometimes it does worse than good..... so just watch out; it's another thing too when you mix nutes all together it can be a problem sometimes...... so watch mixing many kinds of nutes.......

 

[Shliite]

Ughhh.... i'm back.

More problems...

It seems like the problems only died down for a little bit,,, and now they've come back in full force. I'm seeing a lot of shriveling leaves falling off and more of the same yellowish bending leaves. I've never seen anything like it. I've searched and searched but can't find anyone claiming to see their leaves "bend" like mine are. Here's a good example of the problem:


The discoloration and bending in that photo is seen in the earlier stages and progresses to something like this:


After this stage, they just fall off.

Like i said earlier, I tried flushing and easing up on the nutes and it didn't seem to help. To me this looks like maybe a phosphorus defficiency or maybe a magnesium defficiency. Either way, its killing my yield and killing my peace of mind knowing that I can't solve this problem. I have a feeling that my pH is the source of the problem because this stupid meter is ridiculous. Never buy a Checker from Pulse instruments. ...Going to the hydro store to go back to the drop tester tomorrow.

Help?

 

[dank.frank]

See, theres nothing in there about Sweet or Liquid Karma. I was under the impression that the Botanicare products worked best when all of these were supplemented. I also thought the GreenFuse Bloom Stimulant worked well with the PBP lineup... but I guess in retrospect, it was the hydro shop guy that told me that.

Other than my pH uncertainties, I think they are reacting pretty well to the flush and lowered PPM.

I am using PBP Grow at 15mL and I think 5mL of Karma....I have the same problem that you are showing in your original pics....I have dumped one mix that had 10mL Karma in it, and that is when my plants really started to take a turn for the worse....The newer lesser nutes seem to have slowed it down a bit, but I think I am due to flush the soil out....I have already lost 4 large fan leaves completely...I mean 100%, so I plucked them off. I too have VERY DARK green leaves....ugghhh.

I think I should flush it out....5.5L pot so I figure a 6 gallon flush should do the trick???? (part that sucks is tap around here is hella terrible...smells like pool water coming out the faucet....)

 

[Shliite]

I am using PBP Grow at 15mL and I think 5mL of Karma....I have the same problem that you are showing in your original pics....I have dumped one mix that had 10mL Karma in it, and that is when my plants really started to take a turn for the worse....The newer lesser nutes seem to have slowed it down a bit, but I think I am due to flush the soil out....I have already lost 4 large fan leaves completely...I mean 100%, so I plucked them off. I too have VERY DARK green leaves....ugghhh.

I think I should flush it out....5.5L pot so I figure a 6 gallon flush should do the trick???? (part that sucks is tap around here is hella terrible...smells like pool water coming out the faucet....)

Have you ever checked your tap water's pH? PPM?

Once you buy the botanicare basics (PBP Grow and PBP Bloom), the first thing you should go out and get is Cal-Mag. Liquid Karma is helpful, but not essential. Also, from what i've heard, never use more than 5mL per gallon.

I think the problems i'm having are from phosphorus or magnesium defficiency. Unlike you, though, my problems are most likely being caused by a poor and inconsistent pH (broken meter). I'd say you should go ahead and flush and ease back into the nutes. Don't go over 8-10mL with the grow for a while and see if they bounce back. Also, maybe consider supplementing with some epsom salt every third watering or so to make up for your lack of cal-mag.