What happen to my babies?

[marilover]

Hi

Hi
This is my first time grow.
i'm running 5 plants in 4.5"pots for 2 weeks. The plants ara Mandala
hashberry, GH Bigbang, Nirvana White Rhino.

I've came accross some troule on 2 3 of my plants .
the grow info are

What STRAIN are you growing? ---Mandala
hashberry, GH Bigbang, Nirvana White Rhino.
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)---seed
What is the age of your plants?---12days to 17days in veg
What size pots are you using? ---4.5"
What substrate/medium are you using? ---Fafard peat moss+20%perlite
What Nutrient's are you using?--Botanicare PHP grow+liquid karma
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
---
11/10 find two of them getting wilted and soil to dry
water them with mineral water(EC=15ppm)+php grow 2ml/l+lk 1.5mg/l
250ml/pot
11/13 water them with mineral water(EC=15ppm) only, 150-200ml each pot
with 10-20ml run-off

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?---11/13 PH=6
What method of pH test was administered?---test paper
What size bulb are you using?---250Watt HPS
What is the distance to the canopy?---12"-13"
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)---50%-60%
What is the canopy temperature?---78F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)---80/73
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)---220cfm,air-cool hood with glass
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?---no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?--cannt tell, moist but dry fast
Is your water HARD or SOFT?---15ppm mineral water
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?---nope
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?---nope
Are plant's infected with pest's?---nope


1)Mandala Hassberry No 1--MH#1 -> 17th days in veg, 5"tall
2nd pair leave curl inward and will droop late in evening 1-2hrs before light off, but stay sturdy during the day hours

2) Greenhouse Bigbang No 2--GB#2 -> 12th days in veg, 3.5"tall
wierd twisted looking leaves

some yellowing on the leaves

3) Nirvana White Rhino No 2--NW#2 -> 12th days in veg, 4"tall
twisted leaves and gray color on it

for this is my 1st time grow,been too nervous about this. any input is greatly
appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Guest]

had a similar problem recently myself, try watering only when the soil is getting dry, mine pulled out of it just fine

i'm not familiar with the nutes you're using, so that could be the problem. what's the recommended dosage?

 

[mdanzig]

I can immedietly tell you that transplanting is crucial right now. Put into 2 gallon pots. Keep temps constant at 82 degrees day, and night. It looks like cold air mold to me. This is probably happenig at night, or whenever your lights are off. Pick off the bad leaves just as soon as you can, and keep your temps warmer.

 

[marilover]

la resistance : u mean i overwater it? the nut is botanicare pure blend pro grow 3-1.5-4, 7-10ml/gal recommanded. liquid karma : 3-5/gal

mdanzig :have touble in transplanting, the peat moss when dry is still too loose,hard to take all the plant with soil out completely,afraid to hurt the root, some guy told me the the root system has not yet completely developed and take hold of the soil,that's why the soil is still loose for transplant. Any comment and suggestion on transplant?

Thanks for your inputs

 

[MynameStitch]

I would still keep those plants in there a bit longer; if soil is coming lose they are not rootbound.

2) get rid of the mineral water; mineral water contains sodium which is bad for plants ( man a lot of peeps been using Mineral water lately)
Sodium is the first to be uptake which causes lockout of other nutrients and makes the plant unstable; causing damage inside the vascular system; which in bad situations the plants do not take water up like it should.

3) Fafard peat moss+20%perlite

WHat brand of soil is this? Did you add any lime to it?

4) Botanicare PHP grow+liquid karma

How much are you using and how often? When was the last feeding?

5) What is your ph run off have you tested it?

Looks to me you have ph issues and a little nutrient burn going there....

Not to mention I am sure that sodium is causing issues too.
You need to flush your plants out with clean water; why are you not using tap water? Is something wrong with it?
You need good clean water to flush her out to get rid of all that left over salts in the soil, and get rid of that sodium.


7-10ml/gal recommanded. liquid karma : 3-5/gal

NEver listen to the bottle; they are always wrong; there are very few exceptions like canna and advanced nutrients.
That amount on your plants if you used that much you burned them.
So my info stand you will need to flush them out really good.

I would use 4 ml per gallon/ (1 tsp per gallon) for now

weekly.

WHat brand of soil are you using?

 

[marilover]

besides, what's cold mold, the temp at night never drop below 70F
light regime is 17/7,starts at 6:00AM and stops at 11:00PM

but i did water them at night 1-2hrs before light is off

cannt figure out why the other 2 plants MH#2,GB#1 are doing fine under the same situation.

 

[MynameStitch]

Different strains have different tolerances to certain environmental situations.
Some can tolerate heat, nutrients better than others, some can't take high heat and high nutrients.

Stop watering them at night that leads to mold; you want to water them when lights come on or mid day; never water them when there is less than 6 hours of light.

Your humidity will get raised when you water at night and makes conditions favorable for PM and if flowering bud rot.....

 

[marilover]

MynameStitch : hi stitch,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2) get rid of the mineral water; mineral water contains sodium which is bad for plants ( man a lot of peeps been using Mineral water lately)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The EC value of the water used is only 15ppm, the contents say that sodium is 0
maybe they label it wrong?!I'll check the label again, with that EC, it maybe RO water.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
3) Fafard peat moss+20%perlite
WHat brand of soil is this? Did you add any lime to it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

www.fafard.com : Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss baled mix+perlite, no lime at this moment.
will add dolomite to it at transplant.

soil for future transplant
6 peat moss+2 perlite+vermiculite + 2 mushroom compost, any better suggestion?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
4) Botanicare PHP grow+liquid karma
How much are you using and how often? When was the last feeding?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
only once on 11/10

11/10 find two of them getting wilted and soil too dry
water them with mineral water(EC=15ppm)+pbp grow 2ml/l+lk 1.5mg/l
250ml/pot

11/13 water them with mineral water(EC=15ppm) only, 150-200ml each pot
with 10-20ml run-off

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
5) What is your ph run off have you tested it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
around 6,not really sure cause i use test paper, i did it according to ur suggest on the sick plant guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You need to flush your plants out with clean water; why are you not using tap water? Is something wrong with it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
dont know the chlorine level on it but the EC is around 170ppm,so i just wait till the chlorine level is tested and will be used after transplant. anyway if it is sodium built-up,
i'll flush it as you recommand.


as for nuts, i add more than half the dose they recommand. maybe i fed them too early,the most sick GB#2 anf NW#2 are only 10days in veg when i fed them.
i'll stick to feed them once a week as u suggest.

more clue to point to sodium built-up?
if flush is needed, should i flush them now using tap water?

Thanks stitch,really enjoy your sick palnt guide!!

 

[MynameStitch]

I have not seen any mineral water that did not contain at least SOME sodium. Your tap water is hard but you can still use it to water your plants with. Just let it sit out for 24 to 48 hours before you use it.

Those leaves are crispy and twisting so I think it's a combination of things.

Were you showing these problems before you fed or after?
What brand of that soil do you have? There are different types; do you have organic kind or which one?

I think yours is soiless which your ph needs to be that of hydro; I would most definatly knock out using that mineral water first. I would flush a bit with normal tap water 1/2 gallon of water for each plant.

WHat brand of mineral water are you using?

Mushroom compost? Never heard of it...... who makes it?

btw; thanks I am glad ya like it

Also, how much nutrients did you use last feeding; I need to know exact dose with how much water....

 

[marilover]

stitch:
Yap, the water timing is wrong, will correct this for sure!!
i fed 5 pots of then on 11/10 of 200ml each. so total 1liter of water with
1.5ml of lk and 2ml of pbp grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Were you showing these problems before you fed or after?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
no sign before first nuts water on 11/10
after that yellow and white strip or spot on the GB#2 fan leaves.
no sign right after the second water on 11/13
found the sickness 11/15.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What brand of that soil do you have? There are different types; do you have organic kind or which one?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Baled Growing Mix #1 just adusted peat moss
http://www.mywebxpress.com/fafard/index.asp?p=1036

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WHat brand of mineral water are you using?
Mushroom compost? Never heard of it...... who makes it?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
local brand here i'm currently not in states and euro.
Mushroom compost is also local made compost here, its kind of spent
compost
from wiki:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spent mushroom compost is the residual compost waste generated by the mushroom production industry. It is easily available, and its formulation consists of a combination of wheat straw, dried blood, horse manure and ground chalk, composted together.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what i have here is a combination of mushroom compost waste, cow maure, tea waste
wheat straw. the nuts N-P-K is 2.5-1.8-1 with 78% humates, ph=7. they are organic certificated. i use it as substrate buffer and conditioner.

do you guy think 4"-5" at 14-17days veg and not not fully root bond the 4.5"pot is normal?

thanks again!!

 

[Guest]

Too much too soon. I'm putting my $ on Overfeeding. The curl would suggest too much N (Mushroom compost is Hot Stuff man). You need not feed them anything until they are bigger. Try using just the ammended and adjusted mix sans the Mushie Comp. or the liquid nutes for the first few weeks. You're killing them with kindness IMHO.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ok, then you burned your plants then; flush them out with a lot of water then and wait a bit before feeding; for now just use the PBP for now; wait till the plants get bigger before using the LK.

Use 1 tsp per gallon; but for the next feeding use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon

WAit at least a week before feeding next.

Next feeding use 2ml per gallon of water/ feedings after that use 4 ml per gallon.
Feed every 7 days start out light and work your way up; but your plants are touchy to nutrients + they were to small for that dosage. Always use 1/4 the dose for the first feeding of small plants.

I can't find where you said what your pH was......
if the plants soil is coming out when lifting it out of the pot wait a bit more before transplanting.

 

[marilover]

WeedWrapperMan : welcome stopping by, more sure about it's a burn issue.
mushroom compost is planned for the trasplant,not in this stage.

Stitch : thanks, i'll try what u say.
it's sad knowing that i'm burning my babies.
as in ur guide, flush the plant with 2 times the volumn of the pot volume.
since the pot is 0.5l, so i should flush it 1lter/pot?
and what do u mean by saying :
"flush them out with a lot of water then and wait a bit before feeding"

i can feed them with PBP after the flush? for how long is "wait a bit"?
i'm confused about the feeding

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Use 1 tsp per gallon; but for the next feeding use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon

WAit at least a week before feeding next.

Next feeding use 2ml per gallon of water/ feedings after that use 4 ml per gallon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1 tsp is equal to 5ml right?i cannt keep up with ur direction. i'm flunked!! lol



the ph is post in the 1st thread :
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?---on 11/13 >>>> PH=6
What method of pH test was administered?---test paper


thanks

 

[Guest]

Look at the darkened perlite stitch. Those little babies don't need anymore of anything in that pot. Adding more PBP will just make it worse. He's saying they have vegged for 14 days but they look like they're barely out of the seedling stage ... those plants are really gonna fry if he adds anything else.
marilover - I too am saying you are burning your babies whether it be with the PBP too soon or the mushie comp. I'd even go as far as to suggest you DO transplant them into a larger pot but with a weaker mix. You could toss the Mushie Comp idea and simply use the Fafard as a Hydro Medium in conjuncture with the PBP feeding program. The fafard on it's own does not normally discolor perlite like that (I use Fafard, Perlite, Dried Blood, Bone Meal, Kelp Meal, Greensand, and a touch of Dolomitic Lime). I only water my plants as everything they need is there. Or if you're dead set on using the Mushie Comp try using half of what you did to begin with and delete the PBP until the plants are well established.

 

[MynameStitch]

He is not using mushroo mixture now; he was saying he wasgoing to use that with his transplant.

I did not say to use ANY nutrients I told him to flush, because his mixture is to strong with the nutrients he added.
SO I agree with you he is burning them; never said anything else otherwise

Weed wrapper; you mis understood my post; when I Said use PBP for now I said waiting a week; he asked if it was ok to use; I said yes but only after his plants have recovered. I Was also giving him dosage to use so he would start out light and not burn his plants again.

You read it wrongly; I did not say to use PBP now.. I said after flushing but waiting at least one week before using any nutrients

 

[marilover]

WeedWrapperMan : wow, really amazing pinpoint the problem by looking at the discolor of perlite. I noticed that too,but dont know why, now i lean somthing!!thanks
WeedWrapperMan, i dont know how to diffentiate seedlings and veg stage. i count the veg days as they sprouted from the soil. is this correct?

too much N is my first hunch after reading stitch's guide. ther leaves are dark green and little droopy and curl inward. but it is safer to lean it from experienced growers.

yes i can stay away with the Mushie, it's just a idea i learn from Organic soil forum

are u saying i should flush them first with just tap water and then transplant them to a say 7" pot with just light-mixed fafard peat+perlite+little organic ferts ?but the soil is kindof loose to pull out the palnt and soil now, it's still too young for transplant on current 4.5"pot?

 

[marilover]

MynameStitch : thank again for ur detailed explaination. got ur "wait a bit" means.
but still confused about the future feeding dosage.

 

[Guest]

Stitch is setting you on the right path and you'll probably get some more clarity on the dosage issue. I misread what was said already and thought stitch was saying the opposite of what was really said (I'm kinda stoned). You could take either approach outlined for you. I have taken plants just a bit more on their way than yours and knocked off most of their soil when I had a similar problem. It stressed them some but not as much as residing in a Overferted medium. I'll pop back in here when I'm Online again and see what's shaking in a few days.

 

[MynameStitch]

Sorry for the confusion maril, what I mean is this:

After you flush your plant with water lots of it, you flush out all excess nutrients and some more of what was in the soil that is causing your plants to do this. You did fed them to early; after a plant gets over 2 weeks of age and has at least 3 sets of leaves you should feed them by then. First feeding should never be strong but be extremely light.

1/4 dosage no more than 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water (2ml/gallon)
For the rest of the feedings you should use 1 tsp per gallon of water (4ml/gallon)
Feed every 7 days, if you get issues post back here; but I highly doubt you will if you follow our advice.

You are pretty much just using peat moss which is soil-less and helps hold the nutrients in a bit longer.

If you decide to add that to mushroom post you are talking about, take in mind you MUST add dolomite lime to that mixture to help adjust the pH. Peat is acidic which you do not want in that mixture.

Your mixture; how much of each are in that mixture?
That mixture will be way to strong for those plants now; I would wait until they recover and are on a strong growing pattern before even considering putting them into that mixture.

I would wait to transplant right now.... they are getting flushed; you do not want to subject them to transplanting right now imo. When they do recover and start to grow again they will have to be transplanted though. Otherwise you will slow down there growth when they get near rootbound and they start to have issues with absorbing the nutrients in the medium.

 

[marilover]

Stitch : been to panic about the looseness of soil found by knocking out upper 1/4 upper layer of pots, plants can be pulled out fully. just transplanted to 1.5g pots
and flush a lot of the most burned GB#2 and NW#2 during transplanting and kocking off some of the loose soil to reduce the nuts.

run out of fafard soil.

mix soil used 30liters/9.5kg
1)7parts of german gramoflor : 21lits/7.2kg
2)1 part of perlite and verm : 3 lits/300g
3)2parts of organic compost with very lit nuts 0.6-0.5-0.3 : 6 lits/2kg
4)1 cup of dolomite lime

total NPK is 0.04-0.05-0.06,minute enough to ignore

fush water ph=7, tds=220ppm
water run off ph=6.8

little high as indicated in ur guide for soiless medium
how can i lower it? thanks a lot

will post some pics soon.


Gramoflor TC30/70 mix
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>Here are the exact parameters of our substrate
>>TS 30/70 + Perlite high :
>>
>>25 % White Peat ( Northern German peat bogs )
>>65 % Black peat ( Northern German peat bogs )
>>10 % Perlite
>>Fertilizer:
>>1,3 kg/cbm PG-Mix (14-16-18)
>>100 g/cbm Radigen ( trace elements)
>>900 ml/cbm Instant ( wetting agent )
>>pH-value (CaCl2) 5,8
>>Structure: fine
>>EC : 0.561