What causes thin delicate leaves (Indica)

[Guest]

The leaves are thin and delicate like tissue paper but a little thicker. I have to be careful because they feel like they could break off. The margins turn down a bit as well.

20 days from sprout
Under 2 23 watt cfl's 3 inches from light. Temps at canopy are like 75-77
In fox farms happy frog with added perlite and dolomite lime.
Only fed water that was PH 7.1 and runoff was 6.4 ish
Have not over watered.

I couldn't get a pic that really shows the problem but here's a pic just the same.

Thanks

 

[stinkyattic]

How dry do you let teh soil get between waterings?
What is the water source?

 

[Guest]

I pot lift to determine if it needs water or not. 3 days between the last watering at least. They are in #1's and I water till I get about 6-8 oz of runoff.

Tapwater

 

[stinkyattic]

What do you know about your tap water? Where does it come from? Is it treated in some way? Is it likely to have salt of any sort in it, such as highway de-icer inclusion into the source?
Also, you are watering to the point of runoff every time, before you have even begun giving nutes. This isn't necessary, and I can't see that it's good. I'd get going on a mild solution of grow fert, mixed 1/4 strength, to help replace missing nutes from the soil.

 

[10k]

What do you mean by "they feel thin and delicate" ?
Do you mean that they feel kinda limp and have a lack of "turgidity" ?
Overwatering (although slight in this example) can happen when watering to run off if the soil dosen't have quite enough perlite added for good runoff drainage.

For young seedlings in that happy frog soil, they really shouldn't need any more nutes at this point.
If anything from looking at your photo, with the margins turning down some and their general shape, they may be seeing a wet soil condition low in those 1 gallon containers plus they're dealing with pretty rich soil. ie: nearly too rich & slightly too wet.

Try letting the containers get a little lighter before watering again and see if those leafs don't start flattening out more, flexing their muscles (getting more turgid and less limp) and looking better. For now until they grow a few nodes larger, stop watering to the point of run off which will help out if that soil is staying too wet near the bottom.

But watch them to be careful you don't go so dry that the plant begins to wilt.
Find that happy medium between limpness and wilting and you'll have a better feel for that "lift weight" you're shooting for between waterings.

hth,
10k

 

[Guest]

Rambling here as I just got baked.

Thanks for the responses

I'll go longer between watering and see if it helps and also not water to runoff.

Notes

The strain is supposed to be BBxWW

The annual water quality report for our tap says that no sodium hydroxide is added and the overall levels are low. No de icing here. Everything from houseplants to my outside potted trees and plants thrive on this water in containers. PH is basically neutral. No softness hardness type situations around the house no staining on fixtures wither. I need to get a proper meter and test everything about the water but it's not going to happen yet.

On over watering..... I've had that problem before in previous grows and am almost certain that I am watering properly. I use the pot lifting method with my outside containers from 4 inch to 20 gallon and have a good feel for it. I lift these pots every day to assess the needs.

They were transplanted into that mix and containers about 7 days ago from their starting mix. I watered them in at transplant. I waited until the pot was dry save for some moisture near the bottom holes. I am really good at determining the need by lifting. They were watered 4 days later so only second watering since transplant.

The leaves have been this way since sprout. They lack the rigidity that I've seen in everything else I've grown. Like if they were any thinner I could see through them...... but not quite.

The soil mix
FFHappyfrog cut with 20% perlite and 1 tbs of lime per gallon of soil and mixed thouroughly. It's a pretty light mix which is my desire.

 

[wygram]

maybe it's just the nature of the pheno... you could always try some silica product

 

[Guest]

Called the water company and they said the water is just slightly soft.

Any thoughts?

 

[Navigator330]

Try R/O water?

 

[stinkyattic]

RO water is not the solution to a soft water problem- RO is by definition about as soft as you can get.
Can you get a sample of your water tested at the hydro shop for actual EC? If it is soft, you may end up having to run calmag later- the number the shop gives you will let you calculate how much calmag you will need to add.
I agree that a silica supplement may be helpful to strengthen your leaves. I've been treating my mothers with a foliar application of Silica Blast and SMC at about 10mL each in a spray bottle, applied 1-4 x per week. The point of this is to let the plant build thicker cell walls that are more resistant to wilt and also to fungus or other pathogens. That way, when I take clones, they have a higher survival rate even in my nasty mouldy cellar. It's worth a shot!

 

[cellardweller]

Hey!
I am not nasty and mouldy..
~cellar

 

[stinkyattic]

You would be if you dwelt in MY cellar!

Here, turn around and let me hose you down with Physan.

 

[cellardweller]

lmao!!

 

[Navigator330]

RO water is not the solution to a soft water problem- RO is by definition about as soft as you can get.

I was always under the impression that soft water was water that contained salts or sodium from a water softner unit. That hard water is water with high mineral content, iron etc. Upon further research, i guess any water that is not hard can be called "soft". I also learned that hard water will not lather up soap! LOL Grow on... good luck with your plants yo

 

[Guest]

Yeah.... "We got sudz up in this biotch" lol....

So what product or steps do I need to take to use my tap water. Either to treat the water or add to the soil yeah?

Thanks

 

[stinkyattic]

Navigator, that's an easy mistake to make. SOFTENED water that has been run through an ion-exchange unit does indeed contain sodium and potassium salts- these come from the process of exchanging the ions that make up those salts, for the minerals that had previously been in the water. Naturally SOFT water simply means there's no significant mineral content.

Jack- Super easy fix. Check to see the hardness using an EC meter (the hydro shop SHOULD help you with this if you don't have a meter, my local shop does anyway! woo hoo Liquid Sun!) and find the amount of calmag needed to raise one gallon of your tap water to 250ppm. Record that number, and when you are watering your plants, add that amount of calmag. If your hardness is already in that range, you don't need calmag.

For the record, I am not saying those plants look calcium or magnesium deficient, and the best treatment for the symptom you complain of is probably nothing more complicated than a silicate supplement foliar fed.

 

[Weedman Herb]

Jack ... you state that they are in Happy Frog and then you say Ocean Forest ... is this a new game show called "Name that Medium" where the object is to confuse the people trying to help you? I think that plant looks great in spite of its anorexic leaves.

 

[Guest]

Good catch on the place I said FFOF. It is Happy frog.... just a simple typo not trying to confuse anyone.

 

[Weedman Herb]

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll spare you my "FFOF can be a tad hot for young uns" rant. I believe I will need that one later in life. You see ... I find it's better to have a rant and not need it than to need a rant and not have it.

 

[Guest]

Most people should have that rant...... I have burnt the shit out of seedlings with FFOF before.