Well, I've done my best... Now I'm asking for your help

[Emph]

Let me start by saying that I fully expect to not be able to salvage any part of the plants in the following pictures, they just don't look healthy at all. I welcome all insults and criticism, as my research into how to grow has fostered nothing for me. With that said...

So this is my first attempt at any sort of grow... Of anything. I grew strawberries outdoor as a kid, but that was as simple as plant the seed, kill rabbits, collect strawberries... Finding out that this is not that simple by any means.

My biggest problem is that I started this setup adding things on piece by piece... First things first, I have a grow tent that is 16in wide x 16in long x 48in tall. In this, I started with two 100w cfl (like 23watt actual). I germinated by placing 9 seeds into peat pots and keeping them moist on a plate with a bowl over them in a closet with no light. Of those 9, two germinated. I mistakenly left them at the bottom of the tent for a day while developing a shelving system, and now they are all stretched... I then transplanted the peat pots into solo cups with scott's potting soil. Those have been on a 18/6 schedule for the last 15 days.

Knowing that those weren't looking that great, I started a new germination experiment. I planted five seeds directly into my potting medium in a solo cup. Much better germ rate, of the ten I planted, seven of them sprouted. At the same time, I soaked five seeds in water for 24hrs before I planted them. 4 of those 5 have sprouted. I don't expect to keep any of these to harvest either, since i'm sure its not healthy to have five seeds in one solo cup haha, but I'd like to at least try... I also didn't catch the second germ set in time to put them under light, sadly I had to go out of town for work and they completely slipped my mind, so they are a little light stretched, too...

I've tested my soil, the ph of my potting soil is 6.5, and all of the water that I've used has been balanced at 6.5ph as well.

I have zinc replaced the two 100cfl equiv with two 300watt equiv, 63watt actual. I have a fan blowing air into the tent from the bottom right side, and am working on getting an exhaust fan for the top vent. The temperature with lights on is about 83 degrees.

Tomorrow after work I plan on going to home depot and picking up actual potting containers to get my plants out of the solo cups...

I guess thats pretty much it so far, so these are my questions...

1) with the space I have, how many plants do you think I can successfully fit without over crowding the chamber? The space is 16in by 16in, so keep that in mind.

2) do you think a single PC fan would be enough on the top as an exhaust? A 120cm pc fan

3) i'm not a big fan of this potting soil... It's from walmart and I'm not sure it has what I need my soil to have. Anyone have a suggestion as to one they prefer?

4) This looks like mold on the plants... All I've been able to find is that mold is bad. How did it get there? Over watering? Too warm? Combination? Can I kill it without killing my plant?

5) I live in the boonies, bugs are a problem. I've sprayed my house, inside and out, with bug spray, and then I did the my room, and then my closet, then around the tent itself, but I'm still finding bugs (specifically, ants. more specifically, dead ants. Fml.) What do you recommend for this?

Like I said, I'm completely new to this with no one that I know locally to help me out at all... So any insight you guys have. I've read through several grow diaries, but I just don't seem to be able to put study into practice. :/

Thank you all for your time, and I look forward to your responses.

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

Hello.

I've got some answers and a suggestion.

1. You should have maybe four to six plants in a square foot until they are past the seedling stage. Thin them to two to four when they are clonable/showing sex.

Here's my suggestion. What about turning the tent onto it's side to maximize efficiency? Will it not fit? Are you thinking of getting a better tent eventually? You may have more numbers to pick from initially at least.

2. Yes.

3. I hear good things about FFOF but coco or handwatered/easy hydro is always an option I would think

4. I'd have to see pics, or hear a better description

5. Those shitty ant motel traps work pretty well. I haven't ever heard of ants being a problem though I'm sure it sucks for you.

Glad to see you growing. Don't give up because it's difficult in the beginning.

Good things are blah blah blah

 

[Emph]

Ok, trying to figure this picture thing out... Haha. Stay tuned, just gonna upload to photobucket until I get more acquainted with ICmag.

This is the grow from the outside. I have the vents on both side of the bottom open to allow the air through, just trying to keep it cool until I get better ventilation.


This is the view from the front of the tent.


This is the top view. I have the lights hooked into power strips, then regular outlet plugs to light sockets, connected via a electrical outlet at a 90 degree angle to let them be sideways.

The girls, about 10 plants total in 5 cups until tomorrow.

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

Where did they go?



Just being a jackass, but also trying to find out how to post pics while I'm at it. I'm new too.

 

[Emph]

Oh, could you see them? haha I just reinstalled Windows on my laptop (specifically because it's pretty hard to get pictures onto an iPad without a PC to sync to...) and it didn't load them, haha... Working on it again, I just made an album on here.

This is group 2-1, planted 5 seeds... These germ'd.

My healthiest plant, this is plant 1-1 (first germ, 1st survivor)

Plant 1-2, she's not doin' so hot...

Closer up of her, but stupid camera focused on the wrong thing.

This is what I'm afraid is mold... The white part has an ash-like texture and crumples very easily, as if being decomposed.

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

I think it's just dry soil that has a little fungus (actually a good thing usually) on it.

But I'm thinking they are pretty small for three week olds. Those seedlings should recover. If you invested money in them, keep them. It will take time. How close are your lights? There is always the law of limiting factors. You can have an enormous amount of light, but if they don't get the right amount of air or water or food... well you can't do better than your weakest link is what I'm getting at.

Summarizing it to say all is not lost.

 

[Emph]

Now that I figured that out...
Yes, if I can get the hang of this, I plan on purchasing a second tent. That tent is 36 in wide x 24 in deep x 74 in tall. In that, I would most likely do a 400w HPS. I would then use my first as a mothering chamber.

My problem there is that with two 63w CFLs and a 400W HPS, my closet would be about 100degrees F... Not sure how I'd properly ventilate without having an air conditioner in there with the exhaust goin through the attic... Problem is that helicopters fly over my house weekly with thermal scans. Cuban mafia has a history of huge grow houses in the area... Do you think a 400W HPS and 2 63W CFLs will be visible from a thermal in the air?

Good to hear it might not be mold... Anyway to definitively know? It's all bag seed, so I've got no problem losing them to be honest... Other than not being able to say I smoked my very first attempt of a grow ;P.

The initial lights (the 100w cfls) were vertical, and were about 1cm from the leaves. As close as I could get them without touching. I since rebuilt the design (decided to move the lights instead of the plants) and now they are about 2-3 inches from the light.

I think I've got an enormous amount of light... It's like 6500 lumens per sq. ft. Maybe too much, if that's possible...

Do I need to start giving them nutes? The guy I talked to at the local hydro store said that potting soil usually has sufficient nutrients for the first 30-45 days of growth... What would you recommend I use for nutes?

Also, what is FFOF? haha.

Thanks for all the info and responses, Eli. It's tougher than I thought it'd be to start without anyone in real life to check up on them, haha

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

I wouldn't think that would really be an issue if you vented it quickly enough to not be extremely hot, but it's a crap shoot as I haven't the foggiest about thermal scanners.

If you vent it into the rest of the house it shouldn't be an issue that you couldn't deal with, right? I would think venting to the attic would be a great choice. If you did that I don't see an issue.

 

[Incognegro]

Hey... from what I read...

1. Depends on you..how you plan to grow them, scrog, single colas, etc. I'd recommend single colas esp if this is your first grow.

2. Yes, another would be better in addition

3. Fox Farms Ocean Forest is okay, IMHO Light Warrior is better..(OF can be too hot for youngings). Use can use pure Perlite/Vermiculite mix, or Spagnum Peat Moss mix, amended with Perl. and Verm. Walmart actually carries I decent brand of mix, but since i haven't used soil mixes in wuite some time, i can't remember the name... look for something that's light and fluffy, and/or peat based. I will try to remember the next tiem i go to look.

4. Needs pics to say for certain, but Hydrogen Peroxide is always a good thing for fungus and etc.

5. I use stuff called Garden Safe 3-in-1 Fungicide, it's a miti-pesti-fungicide all in one... i've used it before to kill everything from whiteflies to spidermites... works wonders! Guess what, you can get that at Wally-World too!

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

Fox Farm Ocean Forest

I've really only done pure organic mixes by hand and watered with teas.

I'm trying coco and Pure Blend Pro and it's working very well, but I'm still a little hot on the strength.

I was introduced to PBP by a guy who uses FFOF but supplements with those nutes. I like knowing exactly what to use so I can eventually move to hydro so I use more.

Don't use the label strength if you do go with PBP's line!! I'm at seventy percent and maybe it's still too high!

I would move those lights up another few inches and feed a light strength once you see some healthy growth. If they start withering to nothing they were either in soil that was already too hot or more likely needing a heartier first feeding. EDIT (Now that I noticed your new pics I'd say those lights aren't too close but the heat reduction will slow the stretch down considerably)

The good news is young plants stress less. It's easier to stress them but they recover faster in my experience.

 

[Emph]

Well, my issue with venting to the attic is that it'd be pushing hot air to the top of the house, where a thermal in the air is more ready to see it... Just me being paranoid I guess, but like you I have no idea how effective thermals can be and I'd much rather not play around with it.

Incognegro, I'll have to do some searches and figure out what all that means... Haha. Single colas sounds like a single main stem, though? Will it hurt to switch from one soil to another mid-grow? I mean, I've got to transplant them out of the solo cups anyway... And I'll add that to my list of things to get tomorrow!!

 

[Emph]

Eli, you think I should move the lights further away? Is the soil temperature what matters and not the temperature of the actual room? Because if that's the case, I can cool the temp of the soil by surrounding it with ice packs and stuff... Haha, at least until I can find a way to get two PC fans running off of AC current without a 250watt PC power supply. (I'm not very good with electricity)

 

[Incognegro]

lol... i was fixing food while taking my time posting.. i didn't see pics first time! lol

they look water logged, like your medium is too wet for too long... don't water them again...until the top 1/2- 1inch is dry.

If you've got money to invest, get some IR/Thermal Blocker ($70 for a 25foot roll)... if cooled, you're 400 shouldn't get that hot..i'm running a 1000 with air cooling, and just ambient a/c from a wall unit in my bedroom (i grow in my bathroom) and my temps stay under 95* most days...usually 88* but it's been warm last week or so... when it's cold in the house, the temps drop to 83* in the day time...

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

Once you feel the extraction fan's heat you'll have to be the judge. My 400 doesn't heat up the air to where it feels warm but my fan may be moving so fast it doesn't register whereas in the attic it may build up noticeably on their scanners.

The only way I'd be able to tell is drop a few grand to buy one of those things. LOL I'm broke enough to stick it out myself

 

[EliTheBarrowBoy]

Incognegro brings up a question.

Do you have drainage holes in those cups?

I would raise the lights to a total of five inches from the tops, at least until they get going well.

Electricity isn't my friend at all. I'm no help there.

 

[Andyo]

more light

more light

you need 4 x 23w daylight cfl,s that will stop the stretch 6 inch above the seedlings

 

[Emph]

Haha well thanks for all the info guys... I guess it comes down to this pretty difficult question, do you think I'd be better off scrapping these plants and starting again, doing everything right? I'm just worried about these plants being too stretched and not recovering, then having to tie them just to keep them standing...

On a side note, Eli thats a great idea! If I bought one, I could get in touch with the cuban mafia and charge them to let them see the 4-0s point of view on their houses! Haha

Incognegro, they might not have been there... I was having trouble putting them up at first.

 

[Incognegro]

it's easy to wire pc fans to a power source...very easy...

yes single colas mean just the main vertical stem, no side shoots.. or perhaps top just once......

From what I understand with Thermal Scans, are actually looks for "hot spots" the ambient hot air and the bulbs themselves... not exhaust air.

A 400watt light if properly aircooled, will push out cooler air out your attic than the dryer going outside..

if there is enough distance between your light and the exhaust/ or if your exhaust fan is powerful enough, your exhaust air will actually come out pretty cool...

 

[Emph]

Andyo these are soft white, 68w cfls... will these not do what the 4x 23w cfls would do? just don't want to have to invest more money than I have to hah.

Info about the lights I bought today... Soft white, 2700K, 68w CFL = 300W equivalant, each puts out 4200 lumens. I just realized they are 2700K... Don't you need 5000K or higher for veg?

Eli, yes each cup has two drainage ditches at the bottom, they are little triangles on opposite sides of each other to make sure they can drain.

What do you guys grow in? I'm going to transplant these into a different soil, but I don't want to have to move them again... Less I move them the better, right?

 

[aasin527]

Once they get going you will need to transplant at some point. Unless you're keeping them super small. When you do transplant, just bury the stem up to the lowest growth. When mine get stretchy from negligence, I even bury them right up to the point of more compact growth.
You'll be o.k. just trial and error, and lots of reading.