Week old plants develping brown spots on leaves. Help. (pics)

[Hawk]

I have three plants. They are 10 days (#1), 8 days (#2), and 6 days (#3) old. Only the elder two have begun to show a problem. I'd like to keep the third from following in their footsteps.

--They are under ~200w of CFL light (mixed spectrum)
--Temps are 75-80deg
--Relative humidity is 35%
--There is a fan on them
--They sprouted in peat plugs. Then the plugs were put in soil.
--#1 and #2 started in Sta-Green Moisture Max soil that contained fertilizer. I transplanted #2 yesterday and #1 today.
--Current soil is Roots Organic mixed with perlite.

My tap water pH is 7.5-8.0. My distilled water pH is 6.0-6.5. I started watering with distilled. I'm now using tap. My runoff from tap water (ph'd with PH Down solution to 7.0) is coming out 5.0-5.5. I'm using a pH drops to test. I've tried to water sparingly. The Sta-Green soil held a lot of water.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I'm still trying to figure out what I should be watering with.

Plant #1. It started showing some drying/browning on one of the leave tips a few days ago. I thought maybe it was wind burn since the fan fluttered its leaves pretty good. I've changed the fan setup now so I don't think that's it. The opposite leaf tip has started they same drying/browning and the first tip broke off when I felt it with my fingers. Other brown areas can be seen on that pair of leaves.







Plant #2. The tips look ok for now but there are small brown spots on the two primary leaves.







Any advice is appreciated. My #3 plant looks fine for now. But it's also not as old. It started life in a peat plug and then Roots Organic soil. So, none of that Sta-Green soil touched it. But if the issue is unrelated to that soil I'd like to figure it before it happens. And I want to save #1 and #2.

Thank you.

 

[Core]

try feed them a small dose of nutes....1/4 or 1/5 th .....and your ph needs to be lower....i think your soil is peat based...and that needs a lower ph lvl....

 

[Hawk]

Thank you. I'm willing to try a small dose nutes tomorrow (I'll have to get some). But I'm wary of adding any nutes. The leaf tip on #1 started while in the fertilized Sta-Green. Also, it will probably be several days before they're ready for water again.

On the pH: It needs to be lower? I thought my runoff being 5.0-5.5 was already too low [shrug]. I thought ~6.5 is what I was shooting for on the runoff. To get ~6.5 runoff I think I'll need to water with pH 8.5 or even higher (based on the tests I've done with watering small soil samples). I'm concerned with using water so far from neutral.

Here's some pics I just took. I noticed some curling on the edges of plant #2. Funny how I didn't even see that till I looked at the picture. My lights (4 27w ~6500k and 2 42w ~3000k) where about 3 inches away. I just moved them to about 5.5 or 6 inches away. Seem appropriate? I have a temp sensor right at the plant level and temps never got above 81. But maybe they were getting scorched by the light?? That's my logic for moving them up a bit.

#1






#2






#3 looks ok




I hope I can figure out what the hell I'm doing with this. I'm finding it kind of hard to get right.

 

[Core]

hello

...its the ph going in that counts....you never exeed the maximum lvl's that needs to go i...in this case peat based soil needs a ph lvl between 5.2 and 6.2....5.8 being optimal !...that could be the case why she is showing defs...and if the soil is pre fertillized...i would wait a while till feeding it...try and get a accurate ph lvl of the medium.....not just measuring runoff...take it from there....

 

[Hawk]

Ok, I see--I think.

I did try taking a small sample of the current soil I'm using (Roots Organics soil by Aurora Innovations) and mixing it with tap (pH about 8) and let it settle so I could read the color. It came out similar to the runoff readings I've been taking (pH about 5 or maybe 5.5). That was a few days ago and I think I tried the same test with lower pH'd water and was still getting similar results. The soil's ingredients are: Coco fiber, peat moss, perlite, pumice, premium worm castings, bat guano, kelp, fish bone meal, soy bean meal, feather meal, greensand, leonardite, and alfalfa meal.

1) So if I'm understanding correctly, I should be watering with pH of 5.8 given the acidic nature of my soil?

2) Does it make any sense to add some dolomite lime to my soil to raise its pH? Or is that just going to mess up a soil that already is what it's suppose to be. The only thing I've added is some additional perlite.

I'm hoping my troubles are all sourced from that darn Sta-Green soil I started with.


Thank you again. I'm about to pull the trigger on a 250w HID setup paired to a somewhat elaborate ventilation design but my current brown thumb ( you know what I mean!) has me second guessing the whole idea.

 

[Hawk]

...try and get a accurate ph lvl of the medium.....not just measuring runoff...take it from there....

I'll try tomorrow. What's a good procedure for doing this. All I have are pH drops for measuring.

 

[Core]

take some distilled water and a bit of soil from the rootzone...add that together in a cup...let it sit for a few minutes....and then measure...this is the most accurate methode i know...or poor it tru the pot and catch it....

and i would't add lime....i'm quite shure it is in the mixture already...adding to much will hurt the plants...coz lime balances out at about 7.0 ph...

 

[Hawk]

take some distilled water and a bit of soil from the rootzone...add that together in a cup...let it sit for a few minutes....and then measure...this is the most accurate methode i know...or poor it tru the pot and catch it....

and i would't add lime....i'm quite shure it is in the mixture already...adding to much will hurt the plants...coz lime balances out at about 7.0 ph...

When you say "...lime balances out at about 7.0..." do you mean that lime is normally added to bring acidic soil mixtures up to a more neutral level? Because that's what I think I need to do [shrug].

I'm almost sure my soil media is at or near 5.0. I say almost sure only because I'm not totally confident in my testing methods. But every test I've attempted indicates about or a little over 5.0.

If the Roots Organic soil does contain lime they don't list it on the ingredients.

Thanks again. As soon as I've got rep privileges, there's some headed your way!

 

[Daemon]

I'm confused on something - I thought the ideal PH for soilless(i.e. ProMix), was 6.0-6.3?

 

[Hawk]

Well, I've tested my soil several times now. I've used several variations on the same test---->adding a pH dye to a small soil/water sample. I'm now getting anywhere from 5.8 to 6.5 depending on exactly how I do the test.








I've also tested my tap water at 395ppm. I'll use pH adjusted distilled from here on out. Does 6.0-6.5 sound right? I'll also keep measuring my runoff to track what it's doing. I don't like seeing it coming out below 5.5 though.

Plant #1 seems to be recovering from it's transplant stress (it's perking up and the color might be slightly improved) and the burning doesn't seem to be getting worse. The spots on #2 also don't seem to be getting worse. I have noticed some upward leaf curling on all three plants though. Too hot? Temps sometimes creep a few degrees above 80 for brief periods but never more 82 that I've observed.


Here's my current setup. I've since removed the 2 23w cfl's and moved the remaining three bulbs (2 105w 6500k, 1 42w ~3000k) down just a hair. I've begun working on a 250w HID setup (got my ballast today) so hopefully it will be up and running in a few weeks.

 

[MynameStitch]

Personally it looks like the STA green may be a little to hot for it more than the pH....


How often are you watering her?

 

[Hawk]

Personally it looks like the STA green may be a little to hot for it more than the pH....


How often are you watering her?

Just to clarify, the current soil and the soil pH I've been trying to evaluate is Roots Organics. Plant #1 and #2 (the only two with the browning/burning) started in the Sta-Green but were transplanted 3 and 4 days ago into the Roots.

Your comment could very well still be on point though. I'm hopeful that it was the Sta-Green that was the source of the trouble since my plants are not longer in that soil.

They're all in different sized pots now so the watering has been a bit irregular among the 3 plants. But I've been watering every 2 or 3 days. Still figuring out when to judge the need for water but I've kinda been going off soil dryness about an inch or so down and lightness of the pots.



Anyone have any ideas about this upward leaf edge curling? It's most pronounced on plant #3 and #1. It seems to be getting worse on those two plants. #1 also took on some paleness after the transplant but seems to be slowly recovering its color and has started growing again. The curling on #2 is comparatively minor, only on the first set of leaves, and hasn't gotten any worse in the last few days.

#3


#1


The trio

 

[Hawk]

Just thought I'd update on how the trio is doing. Day 17, 15, and 13 from breaking soil. They seem ok. They still seem to have some minor issues but growth is reasonably vigorous so I've kinda stopped worrying about it.

They're all in square pots now. I think they're 1 gallon. I've been watering with pH 6.5 distilled lightly spiked with CalMag (something like 1/4 strength). Run-off is still coming out about 5.0-5.5. I gave #3 a 1/8 dose of nutes a few days ago (1/8 was hard to measure out in 750ml!). Don't know if that did any good or bad. #3 is a bit droopy right now but the last transplant was a bit rough on it and I think it got kinda dry after that. I watered it today and am expecting it to perk up like the others.

They seem kinda short and bushy with tighter node spacing then some plants I see. Is that good? Bad? Or maybe they're normal? I'm hoping good.


The trio






#2


#2. That first pair of leaves with the spots can be seen here. It maybe got a little worse but probably only proportional to total leaf size.


#2. The same spotting is barely there on this newer leaf. It doesn't seem bad but I'm keeping my eye on it.


#2. Plenty of new growth. They seem to be growing OUT as much as they're growing UP.






#3. Kinda droopy. Like I said above, I think it was simply underwatered. Also, before I transplanted it had roots sticking out of every hole in the bottom of it's old cup. Maybe they got damaged/stressed [shrug].


#3. Mysterious upward leaf curl on the first leaves hasn't gone away.






#1. Upward leaf curl on some of it's leaves. Burning on the first leaf set never took over the whole leaf.


#1. There's some paleness between the veins here. Nothing major but noticeable when really looking closely.






Any comments? General health? Am I too nick-picky about imperfections? Should I just keep doing what I'm doing? The first real leaves of each plant seemed to take a beating but maybe that's no biggy.

 

[Hawk]

BTW, they're now under an air-cooled 250w MH. Temps over the last day ranged from 74-79. Humidity is a steady 36%.

 

[MynameStitch]

How close is your lights to your plants? that leaf cupping is dry heat stress related and 250 can cause leaves to dry up with plants that size... If the leaves do it more, move the light up.... but the lower leaves looks like it was related to something a while ago like burn or light to close.

To me they look like they are trying to recover....

How often are you watering your plants? And are you watering until run off comes out?

 

[Hawk]

They've been under the 250w for 4 days. They were under ~200w of CFL before that. The CFL's were pretty close--and surprisingly hot. Temps usually stayed below 80 but were usually closer to 80 than 75. Keeping humidity up has been hard. Ambient humidity in my climate will some times hit single digits. I've got a (cheap) humidifier very close but touching 40% has been hit or miss. Mostly miss.

The 250w hood (Super Sun 2) glass is 16" from the top of the buckets. The current arrangement is a bit cooler than before with the CFL's. With the way things are arranged now the glass is barely even warm. It's actually warmer to have my hand 1/2 or an inch below the glass than it is to have my hand touching the glass. I think the glass sucks heat out of my skin when I'm in contact with it while below the glass I just feel the radiance of the light with no heatsink...if you follow me there. But anyway, I do think the curling has slowed or stopped. Can't say I've noticed any "uncurling" though.

Do they need that much light at this stage? I can move the light up. My grow area is kind of in limbo at the moment--http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=90159--but the current dimensions are similar to what the final space will be. I could go as high as 40" above the bucket height I think.


They're not all quite on the same watering schedule. #1 and #2 are, while #3 is different. #1 and #2 where watered when they were transplanted into the buckets on 5/15 afternoon. I'm guessing they won't need water for another 1 or 2 days [shrug]. #3 got water on 5/12 late night. It was in a small cup so I then transplanted on 5/14 late night into the bucket. It was dry at the transplant. Too dry I think. The soil kind of fell apart. I watered again 5/17 evening. The bucket started feeling kinda light. It was definitely lighter than the others that had more recent waterings. Hope you could follow all that.

I've been watering until I just start to see it begin to drip from the bottom. I'm guessing a total of 1 or 2 oz has run out of the bottom on my last waterings. Hard to judge but it doesn't exactly gush out the bottom. I pour and wait a minute. Pour some more and wait a minute. Eventually I start seeing drips. I pour a touch more so I can collect enough to test pH and call it good. Don't know if that's good or bad--just what I've done.

thanks

 

[lotowork777]

Hawk , what strain is the plant?

 

[Hawk]

Hawk , what strain is the plant?

I don't know. They're bagseed. Based on the number of seeds I've saved from bags I've had, odds are they came from mexican brick. Could be some mid-grade I had from a long time ago though.

Any way to guess what they are from how they look now? Here they are in 3 gal pots at about day 37. They're going 12/12 in a day or a couple: